How to find out if a Business is Vat Registered

Calibos

How does one go about finding if a business is Tax/Vat compliant/registered?

We've been in business 80 years and a local competing business was taken over by a Chinese couple towards the end of the Celtic Tiger years. We ourselves are getting to the point of throwing in the towel and tbh can't understand how the competition is still in business either. They look like they are in trouble too.

Now don't get me wrong, if they are surviving because they have a lower cost base like a lower wages bill due to the husband and wife team working alone and thus never seeing each other, or even if their landlord isn't taking rent from them as he hasn't much hope of replacing them, well, more power to them I say. Sacrifice and Luck. Can't argue with or complain about that (EG. Our Accountants Wife's luxury goods business traded for a few years without needing to pay rent before closing the shop as landlord accepted the shop couldn't afford it but he wanted a tenant in that unit until such time as he found a replacement)

However, if they are surviving for reasons similar to another local (non-competing) business that was prosecuted about 5 years ago for never Vat registering or paying Vat after 9 years of trading! Well, thats incredibly unfair on us who have paid our dues for 80 years tbh.

I'd hate for us to go under only to find out in the future that the competition survived by not paying VAT and then prospered once they absorbed our trade. Basically whichever of us goes first will likely save the other. I want to re-iterate that its 'Hats Off' to them if they outlast us due to sacrifice or an amenable landlord, but if it turns out they have an unfair advantage....

What info do I need to do a search? Don't know their names, Don't necessarily know the company name, just the name the shop has traded under. Am I SOL with regard to having the info needed to run the check?

Or is it impossible these days to have escaped the attention of Revenue with regard to Vat because of computerisation once one has Vat compliant suppliers. Even confirmation that its highly unlikely that they could have escaped the attention of Revenue would be enough to remove that nagging feeling in my head, "What if they only outlasted us because..."

the_syco

Would CRO.ie be of any use?

edward2222

As far as I know there is no online database yet for finding out if the business is VAT registered.
You could call HMRC and ask to confirm whether the business is VAT registered or not,
they'll probably tell you that much. Any more detail and they'll require a 64-8.
If you give them company name and ask to confirm they'll let you know.

Into The Blue

Solocheck.ie

Avatar MIA

Do they issue VAT invoices?

If they do you could buy something off them.

You could then check the number on an official website to see if it is a valid VAT number.

Sunny Dayz

If you get a vat receipt from them, you can check the VAT number here. You must also use your own VAT number to access the system.
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/?locale=en


But what makes you think that they are not VAT registered?

Bobby1984

HMRC wont know anything about the matter and I doubt Revenue would give you any information that doesn't concern you.

Would you be able to estimate their turnover? I presume its over €75K as this is the threshold for registering for vat if the business sells goods.
As Sunny Dayz said, if you get a vat invoice from them you can check on the link above. You don't need a vat number to access this system.

Are you sure that this other business operates through a company. If so, you can find the name of the company who has registered the business name through Visionnet or solocheck. You can also view the accounts that have been filed by the company which could refer to vat in the turnover note of the accounts or they might show the vat balance owed at the year end (if any). If they operate as a sole trade, I am not sure how you can check if they are vat registered.

(If my guess if correct) I think that the sector you are operating in has experienced pretty bad times over the past 8-10 years. Some businesses may have borrowed during the Celtic Tiger and now they have to deal with high repayments and interest charges. Some businesses may also have more employees than others which results in higher costs and therefore reduced margins. Some people buy goods online rather than going into shops. Are you sure that the vat rates you charge are correct? I think you would be better off trying to monitor your own costs and increase sales rather than focusing on something which is totally out of your hands. I work in an accountants practice so I know that Revenue are fairly on the ball when it comes to enforcing payment of vat as well as looking into businesses that don't register for vat when they should.

It would be a shame for a business with a good reputation and long history in the area to go out of business. Hang in there and hopefully things will work out for you.

Calibos

Forgot to check back in on this thread. Thanks for the replies guys.

We're at the point where we've reduced our cost base as much as we can. Just have to hope the banks or revenue etc don't pull the plug before we've managed to clear legacy debt etc and get ourselves back on a firmer footing.

A few years ago I said to myself that if we were finding it so hard I don't know how the other business was surviving at all. We seemed to have much greater footfall. That other local (though non competing) retail business that had escaped the attention of Revenue for 9 years but were caught in 2009 or thereabouts, came to mind. Maybe our competition were surviving by not paying Vat. As a Chinese couple without kids to my knowledge, they certainly could just pack their bags and just leave the country if they were ever caught. However, after thinking about it, I recognised that they'd likely have a lower cost base than us (Wages/Rent) and that could likely explain their survival. I only mentioned their ethnicity/nationality insofar as it would mitigate the repercussions for Vat non payment if thats what they were doing. I actually have the utmost respect for the Chinese immigrant community. Amazing work ethic and more power to them and they deserve success.

Anyway, those thoughts went to the back of my mind for a couple of years. Its only now they resurfaced again as we face a make or break year ourselves. If the banks or revenue pull the plug its game over. However, if they don't we've actually finally got a rent reduction coming on stream and repayments on debt that'll be lowering and others finishing etc. One would just hate to go under only to find out shortly thereafter that the main competition only survived due to Vat avoidance. Despite having pretty much ruled that out a few years previously, that nagging feeling popped back into my head. I just wanted to see if there was a way to knock that nagging feeling on the head. Even without a direct way of checking, I think confirmation that its highly unlikely nowadays with all the computerisation of records and interlinked databases etc even compared to 2000-2009 meaning revenue is much more on the ball. TBH thats enough to push aside that nagging feeling again.

To re-iterate. I don't begrudge them survival or success. May the best man win etc I don't want anyone to think I'm bitter, or anti immigrant or thinking about dirty tricks to find an advantage over them or anything like that. I just wanted to rule out a nagging concern that it would be galling for our business to go under only to find that the competition wasn't playing fair all along. Looks like thats likely not the case though.