Widow 30 years married

Hermy

This census record states that Ellen Pelly nee Sellers is 30 years married. As she is a widow would I be right to assume that she was 30 years married at the time of her husbands death?
There are no obvious entries in the death indexes for her husband John but this could be down to a transcription error, Pelly often being mis-transcribed as Kelly, Petty, Pally etc.

pedroeibar1

Interesting that she says she is “wife” of head of family, yet is a widow.
Aged 79 in 1911, granddaughter aged 24 and assume her daughter was 19 at that birth would make her husband alive 35 years before 1911, so his date of death was after 1876. Born about 1831, she married say 1849, was married 30 years so he died about 1877. Do you know where she was living 1875-1879?

shanew

I've seen a few of these where 'years married' has been entered for a widow - sometimes they mean number of years since the marriage, and on other occasions it turns out to be how many years they were married before the husband died.

Hermy

shanew wrote: »

I've seen a few of these where 'years married' has been entered for a widow - sometimes they mean number of years since the marriage, and on other occasions it turns out to be how many years they were married before the husband died.

Shane, it was actually a recent of comment of yours which had me wondering what I should read into this.

KildareFan

I see Ellen was born in Ballinasloe, Co Galway according to 1901 census, although she's aged 60 in 1901 and 79 in 1911 so born between 1832 & 1840ish; an Ellen Pelly died in Dublin in 1928 aged 82, so if she's the same, 1846 is another possible date.

There were Pelly's, including a John Pelly in the 1821 Census for townland Brackloon, Parish of Killimore, Athenry Co Galway - see http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246484/007246484_00464.pdf -

Ellen & John could have married in Galway, although their children were born in Dublin. Christopher Pelly was born to Ellen Cellars and John Pelly, 21 May 1868, baptised SS Michael & Johns, Dublin http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/cbbea30074733. I presume this puts marriage before 1868 - other children include Michael and Anne. I haven't found a suitable marriage in the civil records yet, so the marriage may have taken place before 1864.



Might be worth having a browse through the marriage registers from around 1860 onwards.

Hermy

There is a John Pelly who died in Portumna in 1877 aged 45 which just might be him as many of the 'Irish' Pelly's hailed from that part of East Galway but it's just a maybe.

I don't yet have a place or date of marriage but their six children were born in Dublin between ~1862 and 1874.
Unfortunately, NLI don't have marriages for Ballinasloe for that time period.

KildareFan

Hermy wrote: »

There is a John Pelly who died in Portumna in 1877 aged 45 which just might be him as many of the 'Irish' Pelly's hailed from that part of East Galway but it's just a maybe.

But the 30 years married when he died theory would be out the window, as he would have been 15 when he married and Ellen would have been about 5. At the same time it shows that Ellen and John probably came from roughly the same area in Galway and may have married there.

There is no record of a marriage between Ellen Sellers or John Pelly that I can find in either the church records or the civil records so far.

Hermy

KildareFan wrote: »

But the 30 years married when he died theory would be out the window, as he would have been 15 when he married and Ellen would have been about 5.

That record made perfect sense the first time I looked at it.
What went wrong?:o

KildareFan

There's also a John Pelly who died in 30th June 1879, in Bray Co Wicklow; he was Sub Inspector in the RIC, born in Mullingar, Co Westmeath....

shanew

might be a long shot - but the only civil parish in Ireland that I can see where both 'Pelly' and 'Sellers' appear on Griffith's Vauation is Kiltormer in Co. Galway... just south of Ballinasloe

Hermy

@kf
That John Pelly who died in 1879 is a son of my g-g-g grandfather and was unmarried at the time.

I'll start checking Kiltormer now - thanks Shane.

shanew

Kiltormer / Oghill / Laurencetown (NLI)

Just one RC Parish between Ballinasloe and Kiltormer - Clontuskert

RootsIreland have the parish as 'Laurencetown & Kiltormer' with marriages back to 1809, and note that there are missing records. They also list Ballinasloe / Creagh & Kilclooney as having marriages back to 1820 - no gaps mentioned.

Hermy

No sign of them yet - I'll keep digging.

VirginiaB

In US census records, I have seen people of Irish ancestry--and maybe others--reporting the number of years they were married long after being widowed. I have also seen a man report the total number of years he was married tho it was to two different wives. He just did some addition to answer the question.

I have also seen a number of cases where the death cert says 'married' when the deceased was actually widowed. Anything is possible on these records.

Peregrinus

Hermy wrote: »

This census record states that Ellen Pelly nee Sellers is 30 years married. As she is a widow would I be right to assume that she was 30 years married at the time of her husbands death?

It looks as though that's what it should mean. But it's just possible that what she is actually trying to say is that she has been widowed for 30 years - i.e. she's treating her present status as a "marriage".

And that would fit, more or less, with her being married to the John Pelly who died in 1877.

KildareFan

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay__part_of_/Bride_Street/82264/
Would this be the family of Mary Pelly who married Patrick Macken 2 Nov 1884 living 35.4 in Bride Street in 1911? There is a daughter, Elizabeth Macken aged 24 with no details, but Eliza Macken, age 24 is living with her granny Mary Pelly in 7.4 George's street.

If you get Patrick Macken & Mary Pelly's marriage cert [Dublin South 1884 Oct-Dec Vol 2 p645] it may state if Mary's father is deceased which could make the 1877 Portumna death feasible.

panda708

I'm a descendent of ellen sellers and john pelly. I've just found his grave in Glasnevin cemetery. He died 25 July 1893.

panda708

Sorry forgot to mention that Ellen Pelly and 2 of their children are there too.

Jeanniegeneal

panda708 wrote: »

I'm a descendent of ellen sellers and john pelly. I've just found his grave in Glasnevin cemetery. He died 25 July 1893.

Hi I'm a descendant also . John had a daughter Mary Maria who married Patrick Macken . Their son Joseph was my grandfather . He married Mary Lennon in Dublin . Joseph's last remaining son lives in Dublin . John and Peter Pelly lived in Galway had lands in Roscommon in 18century . John or Peter was father of Conor Pelly who is mentioned in tithes . I cannot find the link between Conor and john Pelly my ancestor .

Jeanniegeneal

Jeanniegeneal wrote: »

Hi I'm a descendant also . John had a daughter Mary Maria who married Patrick Macken . Their son Joseph was my grandfather . He married Mary Lennon in Dublin . Joseph's last remaining son lives in Dublin . John and Peter Pelly lived in Galway had lands in Roscommon in 18century . John or Peter was father of Conor Pelly who is mentioned in tithes . I cannot find the link between Conor and john Pelly my ancestor .

John and Ellen lived in George's place in Dublin . Their children were baptised in local church . Check out genealogy.ie

Jeanniegeneal

Jeanniegeneal wrote: »

Hi I'm a descendant also . John had a daughter Mary Maria who married Patrick Macken . Their son Joseph was my grandfather . He married Mary Lennon in Dublin . Joseph's last remaining son lives in Dublin . John and Peter Pelly lived in Galway had lands in Roscommon in 18century . John or Peter was father of Conor Pelly who is mentioned in tithes . I cannot find the link between Conor and john Pelly my ancestor .

John and Ellen lived in George's place in Dublin . Their children were baptised in local church . Check out genealogy.ie

panda708

Hi Jeanniegeneal
Your grandfather Joseph had a brother Patrick who was my grandfather. Is Josephs surviving son called Hughie?

Hermy

I didn't know that Joseph had married so that's a great addition.

Conor Pelly - or Cornelius as he was also known - was born to Thomas Pelly in about 1792 and married Mary Kelly in about 1819.
To the best of my knowledge John Pelly (husband of Ellen Sellers) was born in about 1833.

Jeanniegeneal

My ancestor was poor. Many of the pellys I came across are mentioned in the registry of deeds with much land . I have been unable to trace john pellys baptismal record . Not sure what parish in east Galway he was from . He was catholic . Pelly may have been originally from France de la pelle . Originally settled in midlands and sent to Connacht or hell by Cromwell .

Jeanniegeneal

panda708 wrote: »

Hi Jeanniegeneal
Your grandfather Joseph had a brother Patrick who was my grandfather. Is Josephs surviving son called Hughie?

Yes ! Howdy cousin !

Jeanniegeneal

I have a copy of john pellys death cert of 1893 . Ellen sellers was a Gaelic speaker . I think two of their children died as children and I think both their names were Michael . Which seems to have been a family name

panda708

Hi Jeanniegeneal

I found the grave of John and Ellen in Glasnevin KG/195.5 in the garden section. There's no headstone but the grave information says they buried with 2 of their children. Anne 1871-1886 and Christopher 1868-1883. I found a birth cert for a Michael 21 May 1868 but no baptism record and a baptism record for Chistopher 25 May 1868 but no birth record. I think they decided to change his name between the birth and the christening. He was buried as Christopher. There was a son Michael born 24 Dec 1874. He married and had a number of children and yes one was called Michael.

My dad was 9 when Ellen died and he remembered that she revert to only speaking Irish before she died.