Shooting big game in Africa is a good thing

Winty

It’s my belief that allowing hunters to shoot and kill big game in Africa is a good thing.

The South Africa Rhinoceros’s population was close to complete extinction but since 2005 when the Government allowed the killing of old male Rhino that could no longer add any benefit to the survival of the species could be hunted under licence the population has increased to a very safe 11,000. The only reason for this is money from hunting. Local people are now gainfully employed to protect the Rhino from poachers earning a wage that few employers in the area can match.

To my opponent’s I say this.. Without the money from Hunting local people would not care about the Rhino and they would allow the poachers to kill them to extinction to supply medical quacks in China. The best way forward is to control conservation and keep this animal safe from poachers.
It’s also worth noting since 2004, both Namibia and South Africa have each had annual hunting quotas approved by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species





http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/21/opinions/rhino-hunt-is-conservation/
http://conservationmagazine.org/2014/01/can-trophy-hunting-reconciled-conservation/
• Hunters spent eleven million US dollars in the Namibian economy
• In a 2005 paper by Nigel Leader-Williams and colleagues in the Journal of International Wildlife Law and Policy describes how the legalization of white rhinoceros hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to reintroduce the species onto their lands. As a result, the country saw an increase in white rhinos from fewer than one hundred individuals to more than 11,000, even while a limited number were killed as trophies.
• In a 2011 letter to Science magazine, Leader-Williams also pointed out that the implementation of controlled, legalized hunting was also beneficial for Zimbabwe’s elephants. “Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.”

kneemos

Makes sense.

looksee

Good luck with that! I am tempted to ask if you have any idea why the 'South Africa Rhinoceros’s population was close to complete extinction' in the first place!

However my main question would be 'what kind of person gets their fun from killing things'. Each to their own I suppose and the points given make a certain amount of sense, but don't run away with the idea that there is anything noble about this activity.

Winty

looksee wrote: »

Good luck with that! I am tempted to ask if you have any idea why the 'South Africa Rhinoceros’s population was close to complete extinction' in the first place!

However my main question would be 'what kind of person gets their fun from killing things'. Each to their own I suppose and the points given make a certain amount of sense, but don't run away with the idea that there is anything noble about this activity.

The Rhino was close to extinction because the horn was worth more that their life but now that has changed thanks to Hunters paying big money to hunt.

Hunting is not for everyone but I cant understand why people sit and watch other people kicking a ball

Winty

looksee wrote: »

but don't run away with the idea that there is anything noble about this activity.

Happy to discuss how you would keep the Rhino safe in a country filled with poverty where one horn from one Rhino will feed a family for a year? How would you stop the poacher?

Winty

Winty wrote: »

The Rhino was close to extinction because the horn was worth more that their life...

Does the kill actually arouse the hunters in that way?

seamus

Thread title is incorrect. Replace "is" with "when well regulated and used to fund conservation programmes, can sometimes be".

Nevertheless I feel someone who thinks that enjoying football and enjoying hunting animals are in any way comparable is not going to be open to a rational discussion.

kneemos

Some people seem compelled to reject the obvious,for some reason.

Stranger Danger

I'm ok with hunting as long as the animals being hunted aren't adorably cute.

Winty

seamus wrote: »

Thread title is incorrect. Replace "is" with "when well regulated and used to fund conservation programmes, can sometimes be".

Nevertheless I feel someone who thinks that enjoying football and enjoying hunting animals are in any way comparable is not going to be open to a rational discussion.

The football quib was used as some people just don't "get" hunting the same way I don't "get" others enjoyment of watching others play sport.

I would like to understand how you would help african wildlife conservation against the strong Chinese financial desire for the Rhino Horn

osarusan

National Geographic had an article a couple of years ago about a guy who basically had a rhino farm, and simply tranquilised rhinos, removed the horns, and sent the rhinos on their way until the horn had re-grown to the point it could be removed again.

He was really hampered by legislation though - the only legal way to get the rhino horn was to get a permit and kill it, because the government hadn't bought into his idea of farming them and removing their horns while keeping them alive.

Chinese were happy to buy it from him, he was happy to sell it, but government wouldn't allow it.

EDIT: Think this is the same guy:
http://www.jobshadow.com/interview-with-a-big-game-farmerand-rhino-conservationist/

scamalert

it would made sense 100 years ago,when hunting was to support oneself to feed.But if someone pay thousands to sit in armored truck and be driven to the spot to scope some rhino,tiger because they can afford it,then yeah call that exciting game hunting.

main issue still remains which is poverty in countries like Africa-so rather then populating new areas when animal hordes get bigger they let them be shot,where developed countries try to restore populations in places they were extinct in the first place.

So that article in saying killing old animals is just another excuse for getting paid,as most of them have lifespans same as humans,thus while they try to protect most of them,they dont have infrastructure nor funds to supports all the national parks otherwise.

asherbassad

How do they even know that the rhinos they are shooting are "old and useless"?

That's just another excuse to shut people up. "Look, we're doing them a favour by killing them."

josephryan1989

I suppose if it protects the species it makes sense.
Still though if someone feels the need to shoot a magnificent animal like the elephant or rhino with a high powered hunting rifle they must have a tiny d*ck.

jamesbere

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I suppose if it protects the species it makes sense.
Still though if someone feels the need to shoot a magnificent animal like the elephant or rhino with a high powered hunting rifle they must have a tiny d*ck.

Or brain

justchecked

Killing for pleasure is not ok.

Food and other practical reasons ok, but just to be a cvnt and pose with the animal you needlessly killed to show everyone that you are a big boy now - nope.

ALiasEX

Stranger Danger wrote: »

I'm ok with hunting as long as the animals being hunted aren't adorably cute.

So you don't mind me hunting your whole family?

whisky_galore

scamalert wrote: »

it would made sense 100 years ago,when hunting was to support oneself to feed.

100 years ago the heads of big game would have been interior decoration in some Downton Abbey type pile.

c_man

How about these guys hunt something that can fight back, like an ISIS squad. There's hunting for ya that'll do some good.

Winty

c_man wrote: »

How about these guys hunt something that can fight back, like an ISIS squad. There's hunting for ya that'll do some good.

You miss the point.
Hunters money is helping the survival of endangered animals, if we stop hunting animals will die * yes its ironic

asherbassad

Winty wrote: »

You miss the point.
Hunters money is helping the survival of endangered animals, if we stop hunting animals will die * yes its ironic

What bollocks.

I'm sure there is a way to protect the species without having to collect money from knobheads who like to kill trophy animals.

Winty

asherbassad wrote: »

What bollocks.

I'm sure there is a way to protect the species without having to collect money from knobheads who like to kill trophy animals.

Please give us a better way for the people who live in this part of the world to earn a living from wildlife that does not involve the selling of ivory

You say bollocks but its people like you who know nothing on the subject only to condemn it

The_Valeyard

Hunt for survival or food, fine.


Hunt for pleasure and 'sport'......f*ck off.

RedemptionZ

I'll start off by saying I have no interest in hunting and have never hunted in my life.

The OP is right, that having a regulated hunting industry is one of the most feasible ways of ensuring a species survival. If the country is gaining money from having enough to hunt old and infertile animals then there will be financial incentives to protect the animals and their habitats. If there are better alternatives what are they? When have they been implemented successfully?

Hunting, I don't see the appeal myself but I can't take anyone serious who goes on about how wrong it is that also eats food from the likes of McDonalds, Rhinos being treated badly is a big deal, Chickens aren't apparently.

Galwayguy35

Well i watched a programme on Sky News last week where the wildlife rangers in Kruger National Park were close to despair with the amount of Rhinos being killed by poachers.

And in Zimbabwe a German guy paid nearly 40 k to shoot an elephant, one of the biggest in Africa, only for the guides to say they didn't realise he was killing one of the last big elephants left alive.

It wasn't me!

Poaching is not the same as hunting. The money doesn't go towards conservation obviously. All killing is not the same.

Also, big elephants (and big really refers to ivory where they're concerned) are gone. They won't be seen again. Whatever the biggest is now is dwarfed by some of the examples which were accounted for in the first half of the twentieth century with comparative regularity.