Do we celebrate our history enough?

Or do we cherry pick and gloss over the rest?

Next year will see us engage in a commemoration of 1916 that will hopefully mark what those men did in an appropriate and respectful manner.

But do we disregard whole swathes of our history? Do we mark the Famine appropriately? If we do, do we tend to overlook all the other famines in previous centuries, some of which wiped out more of the population? Do we tend to forget events like 1798, the bloodiest rebellion in our history when tens of thousands died but you would barely notice it unless you go to the South East? How about the Young Irelanders and the Fenians? Do we really know the dates, the leaders? Or the Land League, perhaps the instigators of the greatest social reform this country had seen and some might argue far more profound than the political implications of 1916? The Civil War, an event so disturbing that it was ignored by history teachers in our schools for decades afterwards, perhaps understandably when the issue might still have been considered raw?

Or on the other hand do we remember them too much? Maybe there is something to be said for not draping ourselves in the flag every time a significant date comes around?

The_Valeyard

We are pretty good at history commemoration

Although we do tend to skip over the Spanish flu, which was a terrible event which infected over 500 million and killed more than 50 million. Always wondered why that was never taught in schools.

nullzero

We're too busy moaning about the present.

The_Valeyard

nullzero wrote: »

We're too busy moaning about the present.

and planning to f*ck up the future

nullzero

The_Valeyard wrote: »

and planning to f*ck up the future

We're so good a fvcking up the future we're already moaning about it before it happens.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

We are pretty good at history commemoration

Although we do tend to skip over the Spanish flu, which was a terrible event which infected over 500 million and killed more than 50 million. Always wondered why that was never taught in schools.

I've never even heard of it!
*goes to google Spanish flu*

We shouldn't be too hard on ourselves. In years to come, the history books may look kindly on the Peace Process and what our generation achieved after years of butchery. It was a resolution that was held up around the world as an example of how two intractable sides can at least reach some compromise, no matter how imperfect, no matter how much they still harbour conflicting political ideals, but to spare further torment after thousands of families lost loved ones.

Jawgap

No, we have a wealth of heritage sites, historical landscapes and interesting buildings etc and we don't make use of even a fraction of it.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

It's become hip now to be ashamed of our history. Apologists all over the show now.

You raise an interesting angle, do we gloss over the ugly parts of our history?

For decades we have rightly heralded the greats of the War of Independence, one can hardly drive through parts of Mid and West Cork and not stopped and paid some respect at places like Crossbarry or Kilmichael, or on into Headford Junction in East Kerry. On the other hand, only very recently have we examined events like the Dunmanway massacre and the huge shift in demographics as thousands of Protestants fled West Cork for fear of reprisal in the wake of that conflict...yet that is not marked at all.

masti123

We don't have a glamourised view of war the way the Americans do though. So I think that's part of the reason why we're not near as keen as they are to celebrate our own war of independence.

I think (partially due to the Troubles) that it's in our psyche that war and violence is dirty, nasty and miserable for all involved and after having spent 800 years at it as the downtrodden underdog that it was more a relief to finally win and there's no need for fleg-waving triumphalism over it.

Compare that to how the Americans love to glorify themselves as some unbeatable nation with a manifest destiny direct from god to always defeat their enemies. That encourages an awful lot of pride in their own fleg-waving.

masti123

masti123 wrote: »

We don't have a glamourised view of war the way the Americans do though. So I think that's part of the reason why we're not near as keen as they are to celebrate our own war of independence.

I think (partially due to the Troubles) that it's in our psyche that war and violence is dirty, nasty and miserable for all involved and after having spent 800 years at it as the downtrodden underdog that it was more a relief to finally win and there's no need for fleg-waving triumphalism over it.

Compare that to how the Americans love to glorify themselves as some unbeatable nation with a manifest destiny direct from god to always defeat their enemies. That encourages an awful lot of pride in their own fleg-waving.

In the Deep South?

I don't think they glamourise war, or at least not the Civil War, the way it might be across the rest of the country. I don't think they mark their victories at places like Bull Run (twice) or Chickamauga or Fredericksburg?

dirtyden

The_Valeyard wrote: »

We are pretty good at history commemoration

Although we do tend to skip over the Spanish flu, which was a terrible event which infected over 500 million and killed more than 50 million. Always wondered why that was never taught in schools.

That is interesting alright. I would not have a clue how many were affected in Ireland but you would have to guess tens of thousands probably died? I guess when it happened means it was sidelined somewhat by other events historically. I believe it was deliberately under reported at the time so as not to distract from the war efforts. Estimates that up to 5%of the worlds population at the time may have died.

Ten of Swords

dirtyden wrote: »

That is interesting alright. I would not have a clue how many were affected in Ireland but you would have to guess tens of thousands probably died?

the figure is approximately 23,000 deaths in Ireland. 20,000 from the flu itself and a further 3,000 from secondary illness which in most cases was pneumonia.

Interestingly Spanish flu originated in Northern France, it is only names Spanish Flu because the spanish press reported it first (other European nations censored the media at that time)

garrixfan

Nope I hardly knew who people like Wolf Tone were until recently. Schools do a terrible job at depicting Irish history.

We also seem to have no real connection with the famine, did people three or four generations ago?

Zebra3

There should be a famine museum.

Shocking that over a million were left to die in this genocide and all there is in our capital city to mark it is a few statues out of the way on the quays.

garrixfan

Zebra3 wrote: »

There should be a famine museum.

Shocking that over a million were left to die in this genocide and all there is in our capital city to mark it is a few statues out of the way on the quays.

Probably becoz the pale avoided it. Was it a Dublin problem? I think thats one thing that Irish history doesn't distinguish enough, the fact that Dublin has a very different history to the rest of Ireland, at least from my limited understanding.

timthumbni

Well the Irish rugby fans seem to endlessly sing the fields of athenry. Ad nauseum.......

byhookorbycrook

Zebra3 wrote: »

There should be a famine museum.

There it, it's in Strokestown and many workhouses can also be visited. Donaghmore in Laois is a great example of a local community getting together to preserve our heritage.

kupus

garrixfan wrote: »

Probably becoz the pale avoided it. Was it a Dublin problem? I think thats one thing that Irish history doesn't distinguish enough, the fact that Dublin has a very different history to the rest of Ireland, at least from my limited understanding.

Well thats where the phrase "beyond the pale" came from, dubliin was always associated with britain, outside of this was savage country.
Also little known fact, around the 1900s Dublin was the amsterdam of its day. Hookers, drugs, etc.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Paramite Pie

garrixfan wrote: »

Nope I hardly knew who people like Wolf Tone were until recently. Schools do a terrible job at depicting Irish history.

We also seem to have no real connection with the famine, did people three or four generations ago?

My grandmother said her grandmother was about nine years old during the famine. Not entirely sure but I think that was the 1879 famine not 'THE' Famine.

My granny was born in 1921 but I never looked up any dates to check her story. Apparently they was so hungry they tried eating grass and got very sick from it. That's all I remember being told.

wakka12

Jawgap wrote: »

No, we have a wealth of heritage sites, historical landscapes and interesting buildings etc and we don't make use of even a fraction of it.

I know right! its ridiculous ! The houses along moore street used as strongholds of the easter rising leaders are sitting derelict for years, indistinguishable from any other building along the street. Can you imagine that happening in Britain or any EU country?? I can't because it wouldnt happen! Other countries would take pride in it and develop it as a pull for foreign visitors and people interested in irish culture and history.

Sunnyisland

wakka12 wrote: »

I know right! its ridiculous ! The houses along moore street used as strongholds of the easter rising leaders are sitting derelict for years, indistinguishable from any other building along the street. Can you imagine that happening in Britain or any EU country?? I can't because it wouldnt happen! Other countries would take pride in it and develop it as a pull for foreign visitors and people interested in irish culture and history.

https://www.facebook.com/savemoorestreetdublin

https://www.change.org/p/dublin-city-council-save-moore-street-from-demolition


There is a petition in moore street every Saturday morning to highlight the above.