European Club Cup

Tim Harding

The European Club Cup starts this afternoon in Skopje, Macedonia. Something to watch after the rugby?
Some of the matches at least will be on chess24 etc. from 2pm.

Official website: http://www.europeanchessclubcup2015.com/index.php

Team lists and pairings at:
http://www.chess-results.com/tnr188529.aspx?lan=1&art=3&rd=1&flag=30&wi=821

Gonzaga are playing match 45 against GAMBIT ASSEKO SEE (Macedonia) who have two GMs, two IMs and two FMs today.
Their team today: Conor O'Donnell, David Murray, Killian Delaney, Carl Jackson, John McMorrow and Ray Byrne.
Gordon Freeman (nominated as board 3) is rested.

ADARE are in match 46 against Belgian team KSK 47 EYNATTEN
The Adare line-up is GM Vasile Sanduleac, Milos Pahor (good Irish names these), Anthony Fox (that's better; hope he's recovered from the Isle of Man), Jan Henrich, Bernd Thee and Gabriel Mirza.
Their reserve is Colm Egan.

Tychoo

Tim Harding wrote: »

The European Club Cup starts this afternoon in Skopje, Macedonia. Something to watch after the rugby?
Some of the matches at least will be on chess24 etc. from 2pm.

Official website: http://www.europeanchessclubcup2015.com/index.php

Team lists and pairings at:
http://www.chess-results.com/tnr188529.aspx?lan=1&art=3&rd=1&flag=30&wi=821

Gonzaga are playing match 45 against GAMBIT ASSEKO SEE (Macedonia) who have two GMs, two IMs and two FMs today.
Their team today: Conor O'Donnell, David Murray, Killian Delaney, Carl Jackson, John McMorrow and Ray Byrne.
Gordon Freeman (nominated as board 3) is rested.

ADARE are in match 46 against Belgian team KSK 47 EYNATTEN
The Adare line-up is GM Vasile Sanduleac, Milos Pahor (good Irish names these), Anthony Fox (that's better; hope he's recovered from the Isle of Man), Jan Henrich, Bernd Thee and Gabriel Mirza.
Their reserve is Colm Egan.

Can I ask who is funding these trips?

Tim Harding

It's not clear to me that "representative international team" applies in this case since the team concerned is playing as "Adare" not "Ireland."

Anyway I think those eligibility rules may have to be reconsidered by the new executive. Without going into details which I don't propose to do here (would need a new thread and I want to study the wording again), possibly some clauses need to be redrafted and voted on again, if and when an egm is held to adopt the proposed new disciplinary code, voting on which was withdrawn at the egm, subject to amendment.

**
When I started this thread I thought it would be about the actual play in Skopje.
It's hard to get results as yet since the Gonzaga and Adare matches are not getting coverage, and results are not being posted in real time. However it seems from chess-results.com that Carl Jackson has lost.
Results on the other boards may be available later this evening at http://www.europeanchessclubcup2015.com/results-pairings-open.php and at the chess-results site.

Meanwhile, enjoy this good result by IM Adam Hunt who was at the Bunratty classic this year against one of the very top players in the world:

[Event "European Club Cup"]
[Site "Skopje, Macedonia"]
[Date "2015.10.18"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Hunt, Adam"]
[Black "Ivanchuk, Vasil"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B14"]
[Annotator "Harding,Tim"]
[PlyCount "51"]
[EventDate "2015.10.18"]
[EventType "team-swiss"]
[SourceDate "2013.06.03"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Nf3 Bb4 7. cxd5 Nxd5 8.
Bd2 O-O 9. Bd3 Nc6 10. O-O Be7 11. Re1 Bf6 12. Ne4 Bxd4 13. Neg5 g6 14. Nxd4
Nxd4 15. Nxh7 $5 $146 (15. h4 Qf6 16. Bc4 Nc6 17. Ne4 Qg7 18. Qc1 Rd8 19. Bg5
f6 20. Bxd5 fxg5 21. Bxc6 bxc6 22. hxg5 Bd7 23. Qc5 Qf8 24. Nf6+ Kf7 25. Qe5
Qe7 26. Re4 {1-0 Tate,A (2234)-Nelson,O (2063)/London Classic 2010}) 15... Kxh7
16. Qh5+ Kg8 17. Bxg6 Nf6 18. Qh6 fxg6 19. Qxg6+ Kh8 20. Bc3 ({Alternative was
} 20. Re4 Nf5 21. Bc3 $13) 20... Nf3+ (20... Qd7 {critical}) 21. Kh1 Nxe1 22.
Qh6+ Kg8 23. Qg6+ Kh8 24. Rd1 (24. Qh6+ {perpetual}) 24... Qe7 (24... Qxd1 25.
Qh6+ {perpetual}) 25. Rd8 Qxd8 $8 26. Qh6+ 1/2-1/2

Sorry, that was in my database, but actually Adam wisely omitted the final bit of fantasy and just played the straight perpetual with 24 Qh6+.

Tim Harding

This one will run and run?

Meanwhile I see from chess-results.com that Gonzaga lost 1-5, our new chairperson John McMorrow winning.
Congratulations to him.
As of 7.45pm the results of Adare boards 1 and 3 (Sanduleac and Fox) were not yet posted. The others lost.

LATER: Adare lost 0-6. Round 2 pairings not posted yet.

Tim Harding

Round 2 team pairings.
Adare on table 50 (bottom match) play ZEQE HASAJ (Kosovo) whose top board is 1954 and rest unrated.
So an unknown quantity but Adare might win the match, certainly ought to win the top two boards anyway.

Gonzaga will play HMC CALDER (Netherlands) who had a very tough match today against a team that had Harikrishna on top board, but managed three draws.
IM Jeroen Bosch, their board 2, drew with White against David Navara, an excellent result. They have four FMs and their bottom board is 2138.

The Dutch team has no reserve so Gonzaga will know exactly whom they are playing.
Gonzaga are underdogs but should score something.

Tim Harding

I just noticed that an Irish player named Kieran O'Driscoll is playing board 6 for an English team called White Rose. He lost today against a strong Azeri opponent, but in round 2 they play a Macedonian team who are all below 2200.

His last ICU rating was in 2011 but he is 2079 FIDE. I suppose he lives in England but I don't know him.

Tim Harding

Carl Jackson rested today; Ray Byrne gets a game. Play starts 2pm.

Colm Egan plays instead of Gabriel Mirza for Adare.

A few interesting clashes at the top today though we'll have to wait another round or two for the really big guns to meet.
Ivanchuk v Hammer in the third match; Shirov v Leko; Ragger v Grischuk.

Caruana is playing (board 2 below Giri).

Tim Harding

First result up for the Irish teams. Bernd Thee won on board 5 for Adare.

Nakamura and Giri have both lost today.

Tim Harding

Today's results are now posted at http://www.chess-results.com/tnr188529.aspx?lan=1&art=3&rd=2&flag=30&wi=821

Gonzaga lost 5-1. Conor O'Donnell drew with Black against an FM rated 2415 and the other draw was scored by Killian Delaney.

Adare had a narrow win 3.5-2.5 with Colm Egan getting the draw. Sanduleac, Heinrich and Thee won; Pahor and Fox lost.

Kieran O'Driscoll beat an 1850 player.

Tim Harding

Round 3 team pairings up.
Gonzaga v ECHIQUIER AMAYTOIS (Belgium)

TAMMER-SHAKKI (Finland) v Adare

Both have titled players on the higher boards.

cdeb

Mod note - I've split the discussion on who should/shouldn't be eligible for selection to here.

This thread then is just for results, games, etc

Tim Harding

Conor O'Donnell has White against a 2511 GM opponent today. A draw would be a good result as he would then be on 1/3 against high-rated opposition, needing to meet one more IM or GM in the event.

FIDE Handbook title regulations 1.41b permit a norm to be earned in this event if you play all 7 rounds and meet at least 50 per cent opponents including FM (i.e. four) of whom at at least a third (i.e. three) must be IM or GM. So the main thing for Conor is to score some points.
Gonzaga have rested David Murray today.

Adare are outrated on all boards, including (slightly) on top board where their GM plays a Finnish IM. Anthony Fox is rested.

Kieran O'Driscoll is actually captain of the English (Yorkshire?) team White Rose.

Top games to watch on the live action sites include:
Topalov-Gelfand and indeed all the top match encounters where the Azeri team Socar have Caruana on 3, Adams on 4, Radjabov on 5 and Mamedyarov on 6!

In match 2 there is Kramnik v Nepomniachtchi.
Several other top GMs in other matches likely to be shown live including Nakamura after his loss yesterday.

eclipsechaser

Tim Harding wrote: »

Conor O'Donnell has White against a 2511 GM opponent today. A draw would be a good result as he would then be on 1/3 against high-rated opposition, needing to meet one more IM or GM in the event.

FIDE Handbook title regulations 1.41b permit a norm to be earned in this event if you play all 7 rounds and meet at least 50 per cent opponents including FM (i.e. four) of whom at at least a third (i.e. three) must be IM or GM. So the main thing for Conor is to score some points.
Gonzaga have rested David Murray today.

Conor beat GM Twan Burg today. He's definitely playing well as he beat FM Andy Horton and Ravi Haria in Millfield last weekend while scoring 7/7. That event wasn't rated but nice to see him continuing his good form here.

Presuming he plays tomorrow, it'll hopefully be against IM Ilievski Dimitar (2309).

Tim Harding

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Conor beat GM Twan Burg today. He's definitely playing well as he beat FM Andy Horton and Ravi Haria in Millfield last weekend while scoring 7/7. That event wasn't rated but nice to see him continuing his good form here.

Presuming he plays tomorrow, it'll hopefully be against IM Ilievski Dimitar (2309).

Well done Conor! Yes he plays Ilievski today so as long as he plays every round he has completed the technical qualifications.
"All" he has to do now is score enough points for the required rating performance. Which may mean winning most of the games if his remaining opponents are not high rated. It might help him if Gonzaga can win a match.
Today's match looks close on ratings. John McMorrow is rested.

Bernd Thee is rested for Adare today. They play Besiktas who outrate them on all boards.

The games to watch on the live boards this afternoon:
TOP MATCH
Topalov-Leko, Karjakin-Caruana, Adams-Nakamura, MVL-Radjabov, Mamedyarov-Bacrot...
SECOND MATCH
Svidler-Kramnik, Aronian-Dominguez, Vitiugov-Grischuk...
THIRD MATCH
Ivanchuk-Wojtaszek, Harikrishna-Tomashevsky, Jakovenko-Navara...

Tim Harding

Unfortunately Conor O'Donnell lost today. His RP is still 2376 so an IM norm remains possible if he can score well in the last three rounds.

Results at http://chess-results.com/tnr188529.aspx?lan=1&art=3&rd=4&flag=30&wi=821

Gonzaga lost on the top three boards. Killian Delaney and Carl Jackson won; Ray Byrne drew.

Adare's GM won but the rest of the team lost.

eclipsechaser

Incredible result in Round 4:

Bo. UNIVERZITY-BELORECHENSK (RUS) 2½:3½ VAALERENGA (NOR)

4.1 GM Gelfand, Boris 2741 ½ - ½ GM Romanov, Evgeny 2573
4.2 GM Malakhov, Vladimir 2694 ½ - ½ IM Tari, Aryan 2521
4.3 GM Rublevsky, Sergei 2702 0 - 1 FM Christiansen, Johan-Sebastian 2391
4.4 GM Landa, Konstantin 2626 0 - 1 IM Sagafos, Magne 2398
4.5 GM Aleksandrov, Aleksej 2606 1 - 0 FM Kvisvik, Brede 2318
4.6 GM Tregubov, Pavel V. 2600 ½ - ½ Vea, Odin Blikra 2261

Tim Harding

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Incredible result in Round 4:

Bo. UNIVERZITY-BELORECHENSK (RUS) 2½:3½ VAALERENGA (NOR)

4.1 GM Gelfand, Boris 2741 ½ - ½ GM Romanov, Evgeny 2573
4.2 GM Malakhov, Vladimir 2694 ½ - ½ IM Tari, Aryan 2521
4.3 GM Rublevsky, Sergei 2702 0 - 1 FM Christiansen, Johan-Sebastian 2391
4.4 GM Landa, Konstantin 2626 0 - 1 IM Sagafos, Magne 2398
4.5 GM Aleksandrov, Aleksej 2606 1 - 0 FM Kvisvik, Brede 2318
4.6 GM Tregubov, Pavel V. 2600 ½ - ½ Vea, Odin Blikra 2261

A big upset indeed.

Today (round 5)
Gonzaga play Abergavenny from Wales. Conor O'Donnell badly needs to beat C. F. Morris (2143). Good news is that Gonzaga should win this match and get higher rated opponents tomorrow. Ray Byrne is rested.

Adare play a Finnish team; Pahor is rested.

This round sees the big clash between SOCAR and Siberia. Siberia have White on odd numbered boards. Their names first:
Kramnik-Topalov; 1. Aronian-Giri; 3. Grischuk-Caruana; 4. Li Chao-Adams; 5. Wang Yue-Radjabov; 6. Korobov-Mamedyarov.
Other match-ups of interest:
SECOND MATCH, Leko-Ivanchuk; Tomashevsky-Karjakin; Nakamura-Jakovenko; Andreikin-MVL
THIRD MATCH: Shirov-Svidler
One of the English teams (Cheddleton) should be on live boards today, including Howell and Arkell.

Tim Harding

Conor has lost so that's probably the norm chance gone. At 6.45pm approx the Gonzaga match is shown as 2-2: wins for Freeman and Delaney, loss for Jackson. The other two games are probably over but no result online yet.
Adare have two draws and two losses so far.

Kramnik and Grischuk both won today so Siberia are leading.

Tim Harding

Gonzaga won 3.5-2.5 with Murray, Freeman and Delaney winning and our new ICU chairman drawing.

Adare scored 1.5; draws for Sanduleac, Heinrich and Egan.

Rd 6: Gonzaga play a Danish team and Adare meet a Finnish team.
Since the Danes have no reserve, Conor will definitely be playing Black against FM Jakob Aabling-Thomsen (2341).

Tim Harding

Penultimate round this afternoon.
Adare rest Mirza; Gonzaga rest Delaney.

Conor O'Donnell's Rp is now down to 2251 so he must win today to have any hope of a norm; shame about yesterday.
At present the only Irish players gaining FIDE points are Delaney and McMorrow.

Top match is Alkaloid (nominally of Macedonia but really Russia/Ukraine/China) versus Siberia.
Alkaloid names first:
Ivanchuk (W) v Kramnik, should be the big one to watch with Kramnik so far on 3/3 and an Rp of well over 3000
Tomashevsky v Aronian
Jakovenko v Grischuk
Andreikin v Li Chao
Kryvoruchko v Wang Yue
Yu Yangyi v Korobov

If Siberia win this they will almost certainly be champions since they have won all 5 matches and the next teams won 4 and lost one.

Also some tough match-ups in the next few contests with the big names like Giri, Svidler, Nakamura, Adams, Topalov, Caurana all in action; Mamedyarov seems to be the main absentee.

The English team Cheddleton will be on live boards again against the tough Israeli team. Howell on top board, Arkell on board 5 but the stand-out performance is by teenage FM Ezra Kirk who has 4/5 so far with a win against a GM and an Rp of 2565. He plays GM Huzman today. An IM result for him is very much on the cards and a GM norm could be achieved if he doesn't lose and gets another GM in the last round.

caissa007

Big Vlad won again 4/4. Still an outside shot but he's putting the pressure on Giri for rating spot in candidates

Chess_Coach

New live rating list
# ↑↓ Name Classic +/− Rapid Blitz Age
1 Carlsen 2850.0 0.0 2873.0 2878.4 24
2 ↑1 Topalov 2804.3 −8.7 2772 2647.0 40
3 ↑1 Anand 2803.0 0.0 2776.6 2763.8 45
4 ↑5 Kramnik 2797.3 +20.3 2804.4 2817.2 40
5 ↓3 Nakamura 2793.7 −22.3 2850.0 2887.0 27

Tim Harding

Gonzaga lost 1-5; Ray Byrne won his game.
Adare managed two draws (Sanduleac and Heinrich).

English-resident Kieran O'Driscoll won for his team so his rating performance is at par.

Byrne, Killian Delaney (who didn't play today), McMorrow (despite his loss) have an Rp above their rating.
Some other players much below their FIDE ratings.

I'm not sure if these games are being rated by the ICU, though.

Final round: Adare play Abergavenny and Gonzaga play the team from Kosovo.

Siberia only need to draw their match (even losing may be ok). They are playing the Italian team headed by Leko, Karjakin, Nakamura and MVL so nothing is certain.

Kramnik has White tomorrow with a colossal Rp in prospect if he beats Leko.
Looking at the fascinating figures posted by chess_coach, a win could push him up to number 2 on the November list, depending on other results.
He is indeed putting the pressure on Giri but what tournaments will they play in November?

There are no really big ones, are there? The London Classic is not until December so won't affect the issue.

The December list is the last to count for the Candidates spot, so when the 11th list is published they can all get their calculators out and see how the 12-month average is looking.
It might be wise for those who are ahead to take a holiday next month so their rating doesn't change for December. Or it may be that Topalov will be untouchably far ahead and the question will be how close is it between Giri and Kramnik, as caissa007 said.

Tim Harding

Last round pairings are available now at
http://chess-results.com/tnr188529.aspx?lan=1&art=3&rd=7&flag=30&wi=821

Gonzaga rest Gordon Freeman. Only Conor has a FIDE rated opponent. Adare omit Heinrich.

Tim Harding

I got an answer to my earlier question about Giri's next event anyway.

He's immediately going to Bilbao to play double round-robin (26 Oct-1 Nov) with Vishy, Ding Liren and Wesley So. If he loses too many rating points (for the December list) it could jeopardise the Candidates place, but of course a good result could shut Kramnik out.

Tim Harding

Final wrap up on the Euro Club Cup unless we get comments later from people who were there.
Siberia were held to 3-3 in their last match (Kramnik drew with Leko) but that was good enough.
Adare finished last (50th) with one match win and 9.5 game points.
Today they lost 2-4 to Abergavenny: wins for the GM on top board and for Bernd Thee.

Gonzaga beat the Kosovo team 3.5-2.5 with wins for O'Donnell, Delaney and McMorrow, losses for Murray and Byrne, and a draw for Jackson.
They ended up the 45th ranked team on tiebreak2 by virtue of two match wins and 14.5 game points although the two teams just below them had 15.5 game points.

Kieran O'Driscoll won for his English team, finishing on 50 per cent and a par rating score for him (2072).

Nearly all the home-based Irish players performed below their FIDE ratings (McMorrow and Delaney gained a few points).
The veteran Ray Byrne also did OK; his last round opponent had no rating, otherwise his Rp would probably be OK. So he may not actually lose any points and almost certainly increases his ICU rating - if ICU are rating this event.

A few will not want to remember this tournament, I think. It was evidently very tough.

It rather bears out what some people said earlier, that to go without a GM or at least strong IM on top board will lead to suffering. Then put your IM norm-seeker on board 2 or 3 because they will almost certainly meet the number of titled opponents required, especially if the team (after the almost inevitable first round loss) can find a couple of wins in mid-tournament.

Gonzaga clearly missed Sam Collins. Adare had their GM but the next two boards weren't strong enough, partly because of the desperate run of poor form Anthony Fox is experiencing lately. He is normally more solid but this probably came too soon after Isle of Man for him. There but for fortune...

In the light of the overall results, perhaps the new NCC eligibility rules need to be torn up and rewritten, to permit one or two Irish super-teams to be formed.
It really depends on whether the NCC is to intended to be a competition to find the strongest two genuine clubs in Ireland, or to qualify two teams that have a chance of a respectable performance in the ECC.
It seems to be neither at present.

EnPassant

Tim Harding wrote: »

In the light of the overall result perhaps the new NCC eligibility rules need to be torn up and rewritten, to permit one or two Irish super-teams to be formed.
It really depends on whether the NCC is to intended to be a competition to find the strongest two genuine clubs in Ireland, or to qualify two teams that have a chance of a respectable performance in the ECC.
It seems to be neither at present.

Should we consider sending provincial teams?

Instead of an NCC, should we have an interprovincial tournament with the top two provinces qualifying for Europe?

Tim Harding

EnPassant wrote: »

Should we consider sending provincial teams?

Instead of an NCC, should we have an interprovincial tournament with the top two provinces qualifying for Europe?

Not a bad idea. There was such a competition once. I played in it in 1978. Would Connacht struggle to raise a team or have they enough "emigrants" to the big cities?

Maybe there would be a player eligibility issue, though. If you didn't play in the interpro tournament could you then play in the ECC?

Also the teams that played ECC this year might like to continue.

cdeb

Galway typically muster a team together, so I'm sure Connacht would be able to.

Is there anything in the ECC rules that would/wouldn't allow made-up clubs (as opposed to made-up teams) to enter?

RoundTower

This was a great tournament to play in as always. I did not have a good tournament myself - I had several chances to get results against much stronger players but did not take any of them, and finished with a loss to an unrated player whose first FIDE rating is likely to be 2300+. Killian Delaney, John McMorrow and Ray Byrne had tournaments to remember though. Ray could have joined Killian on +1 but unfortunately spoilt a winning double rook ending in time trouble on the last day. The highlight of the tournament however was certainly Conor's elegant win over GM Twan Burg.

I don't like the idea of having provincial teams. This isn't rugby where the move to a small number of professional clubs allowed our best players to play against quality opposition every week. We'd have teams competing for 30th place instead of for 40th - I don't think that brings any more glory to Irish chess. Someone has to come last, after all, and it doesn't matter to Kramnik and Topalov that the bottom boards are stocked by 2000 rated players instead of 2200s. A full Irish Olympiad team, for comparison would be seeded approximately 22nd like Eynatten. Having said that, we'd love to see what Gonzaga are capable of if we can just get Sam and Conor both available to play the event.

The ECC rules generally allow "made up clubs" so long as they play in the NCC and so long as any non-IRL players play for that club in the NCC or pay a fee to the organisers. They don't scrutinise the lower boards too carefully which may explain Adare's board 2. The recent change to the NCC rules should open up the competition and hopefully will attract more clubs to send their strongest teams. In recent years we've seen (in various competitions) teams capable of qualifying from Ennis, Galway, Rathmines, Kilkenny, Trinity, Elm Mount, St Benildus, plus some other potential surprise packages, as well as Gonzaga and Adare who qualified this year.

wine and final destination

In Adares defence regarding eligibility, Sanduleac plays at least the minimum amount of league games to be eligible as does Tony. The biggest issue they face now is players playing for different teams like Tony, Jan, Milos and Colm which makes people question the club's eligibility! J new NCC rules will have a big impact on this next year, this coupled with it being held in Leinster will hopefully lead to more teams that played throughout the season participating!