**Spoilers** Series 9, Episode 5 - "The Girl Who Died"

pixelburp

So, will Maisie Williams be playing Susan? Romana? Missy / the Doctors daughter? Or, more likely, will it be a big anti climax and not anything so blatantly fanbaiting? Guess we'll fin out soon enough, one way or another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nws2qBa3I4

Angron

So they finally referenced Capaldi being in the show before!

Busi_Girl08

Nice 10/Donna flashback!

Also, Capaldi is rocking Troughton's checkered trousers!

corkie

It was strange watching when you know Ashildr was going to be saved for next week's episode "The Woman Who Lived"!

Still has not been revealed how the immortal Ashildr could become, possibility of re occurring role for Maisie Williams in future seasons! That is if they don't have her die next week!

mach1982

Question is will she resent the Doctor ??? Also is doses she age? Could she be a distance relatively of Clara?

Angron

They should have her hang out with Captain Jack.

The_Valeyard

Thank f*ck those sunglasses have been smashed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

So.... bit of a mixed bag for me.

I thought the overall Vikings vs Aliens thing was rubbish. The guy in the clouds looked like they'd run out of budget for special effects. It was all a bit nonsense for me. However, the emotional side of it all was pretty damn good. The Doctor admitting he's tired of losing people, his continuing worry about Clara putting herself in danger, his epiphany about his face etc. etc. all excellent. I also quite loved the bit where Clara realised he had decided to stay because the baby stopped crying, very nicely done. I think a lot of that episode was heavily hinting at

Clara's impending departure and I have a horrible feeling it's not going to be a nice one for her. I'm like a broken record with how much I love the Capaldi/Coleman partnership but God Damn It! I love it, and am going to be pretty devo when she leaves.

Angron

The face in the clouds just reminded me of Monty Python to be honest.

Frigating

Can someone explain what the "she's a hybrid" line was about? I missed that part

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Angron wrote: »

The face in the clouds just reminded me of Monty Python to be honest.

Or Teletubbies.

Antar Bolaeisk

Frigating wrote: »

Can someone explain what the "she's a hybrid" line was about? I missed that part

Presumably some reference to the Dalek/Timelord hybrid prophecy thingy from episodes 1&2 (though I thought it was implied that Missy was the hybrid at the end of the second episode).

Quite a good episode, completely daft at times but also quite touching, nearly let out an awww when he revealed the purpose of the second doohickey.

I thought it was a bit silly with the best fighters in the galaxy thing (i thought that was them other fellas?) then boom they're dead. Like i'm sure they've heard of electricity before
It was good overall though and had funny bits and I was delighted to see they referenced him being in it before

Angron

I'd imagine they'd heard of electricity, sure, but given who they were facing I doubt they expected the use of it from a group as primitive as the Vikings.

Penn

The last few minutes stopped it from being a terrible episode, but it still wasn't great. Seemed like an awful long way to go to set up Maisie William's character for the next episode.

Sonics2k

I just.
I just can't even express my feelings towards this. It wasn't a bad episode, but it certainly wasn't a great episode.

To me, it almost feels like Capaldi is holding back, as if he's afraid to really let go and become the Doctor.
Baker was my first Doctor, and he absolutely encapsulated the role. The same can be said for Eccleston, Tennant and Smith. Each one really grabbed the character by the reins and brought out something amazing in the role.

But Capaldi, I love the actor, but he is not capturing me at all. The only good moment was the shot back to the Fires of Pompeii episode which made me sit up and be amazed, and then it was over.
It just seemed like a lazy way to introduce Maisie Williams character with a shoddy story added on.

pixelburp

I dunno, I really enjoyed that: felt like a palette cleanser after the darker, more brooding first two stories. Every Dr. Who series has had a wavering tone, so it can't be unrelenting darkness all the time.

Ok, the aliens really sucked and effectively their only purpose was to be defeated, but if you wanted a perfect encapsulation about what Doctor Who is about, you could do a lot worse than this episode: humour, stakes, a bizarre & slightly macabre threat, some light callbacks to previous mythology, and a really strong emotional core with Doctor & Clara. Light and frothy to be honest & sometimes that's ok.

Still though, gotta reiterate how strong the 12th Doc / Clara relationship is at this stage; they're complimenting each other brilliantly and so on each others wavelength it'll be a heck of a punch when they go their separate ways.

Wibbs

Sonics2k wrote: »

To me, it almost feels like Capaldi is holding back, as if he's afraid to really let go and become the Doctor.

Same here TBH and I had and have really high hopes for Capaldi, certainly more than I ever had for Smith(but he won me over). Maybe with the Clara dynamic out of the picture he'll let fly?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Wibbs wrote: »

Same here TBH and I had and have really high hopes for Capaldi, certainly more than I ever had for Smith(but he won me over). Maybe with the Clara dynamic out of the picture he'll let fly?

Funny how people's opinions can differ so much.

I think Capaldi is an excellent Doctor. Matt Smith was like watching a kind of annoying children's party entertainer. I never got one bit of emotional heft from his entire run. Even when Rory and Amy died or whatever that was it was all a bit Meh.
The "Clara dynamic" is one of the best things about the show at the moment, it's what kept this week's episode from being a poor Power Rangers knock off.

I suppose that's what happens when a show changes it's two main leads on a regular basis. They're never going to appeal to everyone in the same way.

pixelburp

Sonics2k wrote: »

I just.
I just can't even express my feelings towards this. It wasn't a bad episode, but it certainly wasn't a great episode.

To me, it almost feels like Capaldi is holding back, as if he's afraid to really let go and become the Doctor.
Baker was my first Doctor, and he absolutely encapsulated the role. The same can be said for Eccleston, Tennant and Smith. Each one really grabbed the character by the reins and brought out something amazing in the role.

Hold back from what? I'm a bit confused by this sentiment: what is expected or believed Capaldi isn't doing? I think he has done an absolute blinder, and maintained a very delicate balance with what is arguably the spikiest, most arrogant version of the 'new' Doctors to date. In lesser hands it could have made the Doctor pretty horrible, especially coming on the heels of the more infantile, bubbly 11th incarnation.

Funny you mention Baker, I presume you mean Tom because it was the other Baker, Colin, that had to work the last ostensibly 'unlikable' doctor and we all know what a disaster that was. Now, the scripts were pig-awful for sure, but Colin Baker himself just didn't have the chops to smooth the hard edges on his Doctor's personality. The difference between being an a$$hole and being a likeable a$$hole.

Mr Bloat

I'd echo the sentiments of others that Capaldi is an outstanding Doctor and he's fast becoming my favourite. You can tell that he is a lifelong Who fan and it seems to me that he is bringing an element of Hartnell's gruff but grandfatherly manner and Troughton's impish but clever-underneath-it-all quality to the role. You can also see a bit of Tennant and Smith's "God amongst us mortals" manner when he is dismissive of emotions and feelings in the people he encounters.
To me he has perfectly captured a being with centuries of knowledge and many different personalities inside him.

Sonics2k

pixelburp wrote: »

Hold back from what? I'm a bit confused by this sentiment: what is expected or believed Capaldi isn't doing? I think he has done an absolute blinder, and maintained a very delicate balance with what is arguably the spikiest, most arrogant version of the 'new' Doctors to date. In lesser hands it could have made the Doctor pretty horrible, especially coming on the heels of the more infantile, bubbly 11th incarnation.

Funny you mention Baker, I presume you mean Tom because it was the other Baker, Colin, that had to work the last ostensibly 'unlikable' doctor and we all know what a disaster that was. Now, the scripts were pig-awful for sure, but Colin Baker himself just didn't have the chops to smooth the hard edges on his Doctor's personality. The difference between being an a$$hole and being a likeable a$$hole.

It's really really hard to explain, it came from a conversation with my mother who is also a massive Doctor Who fan.

I guess the best way to put it is that if we take Matt Smith. He basically personified the Doctor, became the character and let it really envelop him.
Even in a somewhat weak episode, Matt Smith really stood out and always put on a great show, becoming the center of every scene he was in. He had a fantastic mix of humour and incredibly dark moments.
With Capaldi, whilst having his moments, to me feels like he's not really letting go. We're in to his 2nd season as the Doctor and it still feels like he's not quite right. He's had some fantastic moments.
It's almost as if he's been a life long fan, has finally got the role he dreamed of since he was a small boy and now that he has it, he's panicking that he'll screw it up.
He was brilliant in the Thick of It and made the show great to watch.

And yes, I meant Tom Baker. I liked the idea of Colin's Doctor, but as you said, he just couldn't pull it off.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ I think people's opinions and feelings about Capaldi as the Doctor are heavily influenced by their opinions on Smith. I know that sounds painfully obvious but hear me out.

Since Capaldi took over I've seen and heard a lot of people express issues they have with his doctor and with the show in general. I find that almost every issue people have and everything they don't like, or in some cases hate, are exactly the things I love.

Everything you say about Smith in your post are the exact reasons I could never warm to him and although I watched the show I never would have called myself a fan. That changed as soon as Capaldi came on board and especially with Coleman there too. Seemingly in the minority I was a fan of Clara from the start although I admit in her episodes with Smith there was something not quite right.

I haven't watched any episodes pre Smith so I don't know if there's usually such a shift in tone when they change actor but to me it feels like Capaldi Who and Smith Who are two completely different shows, polar opposites almost, and whether or not that works for you will come down to what your feelings about Smith's Doctor were.

Obviously I'm coming from the position of only having 2 Doctors to compare. If you're a lifelong fan you're used to them changing Doctors so you're comparing them all and obviously that's different.

I just find in all the discussions about what's "not working" for people the things they list are the things I love.

Doctor DooM

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

^ I think people's opinions and feelings about Capaldi as the Doctor are heavily influenced by their opinions on Smith. I know that sounds painfully obvious but hear me out.

Since Capaldi took over I've seen and heard a lot of people express issues they have with his doctor and with the show in general. I find that almost every issue people have and everything they don't like, or in some cases hate, are exactly the things I love.

Everything you say about Smith in your post are the exact reasons I could never warm to him and although I watched the show I never would have called myself a fan. That changed as soon as Capaldi came on board and especially with Coleman there too. Seemingly in the minority I was a fan of Clara from the start although I admit in her episodes with Smith there was something not quite right.

I haven't watched any episodes pre Smith so I don't know if there's usually such a shift in tone when they change actor but to me it feels like Capaldi Who and Smith Who are two completely different shows, polar opposites almost, and whether or not that works for you will come down to what your feelings about Smith's Doctor were.

Obviously I'm coming from the position of only having 2 Doctors to compare. If you're a lifelong fan you're used to them changing Doctors so you're comparing them all and obviously that's different.

I just find in all the discussions about what's "not working" for people the things they list are the things I love.

Except as you say if you're an old school fan. Then you just shake your head at people who're all "oooh this Doctor isn't exactly how I want him to be". Instead you just enjoy the change and the surprise of the new, because that's part of the joy of this show nothing else gives you.

For the record I think both Smith and Capaldi are great Doctors, and I love the differences between them as much as the similarities

ebbsy

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Except if you're an old school fan. Then you just shake your head at people who're all "oooh this Doctor isn't exactly how I want him to be". Instead you just enjoy the change and the surprise of the new, because that's part of the joy of this show nothing else gives you.

For the record I think both Smith and Capaldi are great Doctors, and I love the differences between them as much as the similarities

I think you have summed up exactly what I think of Capaldi. He, like Tom Baker, takes average scripts and makes you want to watch them.

Then again I must be an ould fart, being in my 40's.

WomanSkirtFan8

ebbsy wrote: »

I think you have summed up exactly what I think of Capaldi. He, like Tom Baker, takes average scripts and makes you want to watch them."

I absolutely agree. I Love Capaldi as he's really growing on me. Could conceivably be one of the best doctors we've had to date. The fact that he''s a big fan of the show as well helps him immensly.

the_barfly1

I'm really enjoying Capaldi. Think he's really upped his game this season. I'm looking forward to seeing how he fares without Jenna Coleman, I find myself enjoying his scenes with the supporting characters a lot more than his scenes with her. I think Capaldi could be an incredible "solo" Doctor, although the chances of that happening would be slim, I'd imagine.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

the_barfly1 wrote: »

I'm really enjoying Capaldi. Think he's really upped his game this season. I'm looking forward to seeing how he fares without Jenna Coleman, I find myself enjoying his scenes with the supporting characters a lot more than his scenes with her. I think Capaldi could be an incredible "solo" Doctor, although the chances of that happening would be slim, I'd imagine.

There are rumours that next year there won't be a full series but instead a couple of one off specials. I think they've done similar with Sherlock? They could work as solo Doctor episodes and would probably be a good way to transition from companion to companion, rather than just going straight from Clara to someone new.

jasonb

Sherlock has always been a season of three episodes, three seasons so far, with a couple of years between each season, but they've done a 'Christmas Special' this year as well.

Didn't they go from a full season to 4 specials for David Tennant's last few episodes? And Matt Smith's final season was split into two I think, some aired in the autumn, then a Christmas special, and then the rest in Spring.

J.

Doctor DooM

jasonb wrote: »

Sherlock has always been a season of three episodes, three seasons so far, with a couple of years between each season, but they've done a 'Christmas Special' this year as well.

Didn't they go from a full season to 4 specials for David Tennant's last few episodes? And Matt Smith's final season was split into two I think, some aired in the autumn, then a Christmas special, and then the rest in Spring.

J.

Yes on all accounts. I think the Beebs just get creative when money is tight, although Tennant I thihnk needed a break to go do stage acting.