DPF questions

BionicRasher

Looking for some sound quick advice as we need to make a decision by Friday at the latest.

So we have a have a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 1.6 HDI VTR automatic, lowish mileage (55k) and we have been having nightmares with it.
Bought it from reputable dealer 18 months ago and its been in the garage 5 times for periods of at least a week each time .....as per below.
1. Clutch issue some kind of hydraulic was replaced....dealer covers this. 1week off the road
2. EGR replaced......dealer covers this also. 10 day's off the road.
3. Someone drives in to the back of us causing €3500 worth of damage, new tail door, bumpers, glass etc etc.... Person at fault insurance covers this .....3 weeks off the road
4. Turbos failed..... (Happened 8 weeks ago) €1250 all in to replace....we pay for this. 2 weeks off the road. Work done by Indy local garage
5. Turbos went again.....car off the road for 3 weeks now. Cost covered by warranty by local Indy guy again. Turbos replaced, all the usual stuff completed but errors still show up and car is in limp mode. Main Citroen dealer recommended Front fuse box change. We pay for this €90. Still in limp mode. Citroen recommend DPF is knackered and needs replacing. Cost approximately €785 excluding labour.

So we want rid of the car and will buy a replacement but need to trade this in against the replacement.

I don't want to fork out the bones of €1000 on it.

Should I choose DPF removal? Cost looks to be in the region of €400 by another garage. They seem to specialise in this kind of stuff.

Will it effect trade in?
Will it fail NCT?
Should I tell insurance company?

Is it a wise move?

Any help appreciated as I am far from motor smart!

(BTW we will never buy a diesel again as its not working out with the relatively low milage we do. Also not suited to the slow stop start nature of most of our daily drives......if only I had researched the pitfalls of the diesel before we purchased!!)

martinr5232

Look into getting your dpf cleaned google it and you should find someone close to you.

Atlantic Dawn

Should you have a diesel at all, what miles do you do per year and is it town or motorway driving?

Marty McFly

martinr5232 wrote: »

Look into getting your dpf cleaned google it and you should find someone close to you.

I just has mine cleaned out for a 100 euro. Got it back this evening feels much better just have to take it on solid drive tomorrow and keep it over 3000 revs to blow it out a bit more.

BionicRasher

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Should you have a diesel at all, what miles do you do per year and is it town or motorway driving?

If I had know the issues I would never have bought diesel. However it seems to be hard to get a petrol 7 seater secondhand anyway - who would have thought that a diesel car was not designed to be driven like this !!

We do mainly short journeys now back and forth to work (7km each way and I use a car ferry so car is only on the road for about 20 mins morning and evening) and maybe one 40km round trip per week up to the city. Up to 6 months ago I was doing a 80km round trip to work each day but we had issues with the car back then also so I think its just a lemon of a car really that we got.

Marty McFly wrote: »

I just has mine cleaned out for a 100 euro. Got it back this evening feels much better just have to take it on solid drive tomorrow and keep it over 3000 revs to blow it out a bit more.

I am getting quotes of €300 for this - If I could get it done for €100 I would do it ASAP and try to sell the car this weekend.
Any ideas of somewhere that will do it in the Cork area?

NIMAN

Try these folk

http://www.terracleanireland.ie/index.php/agents


No links. Know people who got Terraclean done, and very happy with it.

_Brian

BionicRasher wrote: »

Looking for some sound quick advice as we need to make a decision by Friday at the latest.

So we have a have a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 1.6 HDI VTR automatic, lowish mileage (55k) and we have been having nightmares with it.
Bought it from reputable dealer 18 months ago and its been in the garage 5 times for periods of at least a week each time .....as per below.
1. Clutch issue some kind of hydraulic was replaced....dealer covers this. 1week off the road
2. EGR replaced......dealer covers this also. 10 day's off the road.
3. Someone drives in to the back of us causing €3500 worth of damage, new tail door, bumpers, glass etc etc.... Person at fault insurance covers this .....3 weeks off the road
4. Turbos failed..... (Happened 8 weeks ago) €1250 all in to replace....we pay for this. 2 weeks off the road. Work done by Indy local garage
5. Turbos went again.....car off the road for 3 weeks now. Cost covered by warranty by local Indy guy again. Turbos replaced, all the usual stuff completed but errors still show up and car is in limp mode. Main Citroen dealer recommended Front fuse box change. We pay for this €90. Still in limp mode. Citroen recommend DPF is knackered and needs replacing. Cost approximately €785 excluding labour.

So we want rid of the car and will buy a replacement but need to trade this in against the replacement.

I don't want to fork out the bones of €1000 on it.

Should I choose DPF removal? Cost looks to be in the region of €400 by another garage. They seem to specialise in this kind of stuff.

Will it effect trade in?
Will it fail NCT?
Should I tell insurance company?

Is it a wise move?

Any help appreciated as I am far from motor smart!

(BTW we will never buy a diesel again as its not working out with the relatively low milage we do. Also not suited to the slow stop start nature of most of our daily drives......if only I had researched the pitfalls of the diesel before we purchased!!)

We had the same car just a manual for four years...

When the replace DPF light came on I brought it to the main dealer, they were able to hook up the diagnostic and see that the pressure differential across the DPF was minimal, so they reset the counter and the light went out..

I'd be hesitant to change if unless its showing as blocked, the mechanic I spoke to said the car software is set to flag the DPF based on milage - they check the pressure and if its OK they just mark the DPF as replaced on the software..

My understanding is that the only problem that can occur with a dpf is it can block, if the pressure sensors aren't showing it as blocked then why change it ??

You've seem to have a tough time with the car..

ohnonotgmail

NIMAN wrote: »

Try these folk

http://www.terracleanireland.ie/index.php/agents


No links. Know people who got Terraclean done, and very happy with it.

€380 to clean a dpf? i can get it removed for that price

BionicRasher

_Brian wrote: »

We had the same car just a manual for four years...

When the replace DPF light came on I brought it to the main dealer, they were able to hook up the diagnostic and see that the pressure differential across the DPF was minimal, so they reset the counter and the light went out..

I'd be hesitant to change if unless its showing as blocked, the mechanic I spoke to said the car software is set to flag the DPF based on milage - they check the pressure and if its OK they just mark the DPF as replaced on the software..

My understanding is that the only problem that can occur with a dpf is it can block, if the pressure sensors aren't showing it as blocked then why change it ??

You've seem to have a tough time with the car..

I think my next step might be to get the car to another garage for a second opinion and see if they can get to the bottom of the actual issue.
The local guy is great but I don't think he knows exactly what might be wrong
We didn't get any warning lights at all just no power

DPF cleaning and/or removal all comes in around 400+ Euro. As all we want to do is sell the car ASAP I don't see that I should spend that amount of cash

This thing has cost us in the region of €1500 in the last 2 months and I am not willing to spend excessive amounts on it as we will not be keeping it.

its a real curse having to try to get kids to creche and ourselves to work etc and its putting a lot of stress in to family life at the moment

Diesels - huh......who would have em!!

dr.fuzzenstein

BionicRasher wrote: »

I think my next step might be to get the car to another garage for a second opinion and see if they can get to the bottom of the actual issue.
The local guy is great but I don't think he knows exactly what might be wrong
We didn't get any warning lights at all just no power

DPF cleaning and/or removal all comes in around 400+ Euro. As all we want to do is sell the car ASAP I don't see that I should spend that amount of cash

This thing has cost us in the region of €1500 in the last 2 months and I am not willing to spend excessive amounts on it as we will not be keeping it.

its a real curse having to try to get kids to creche and ourselves to work etc and its putting a lot of stress in to family life at the moment

Diesels Citroens - huh......who would have em!!

:P

JohnBoy26

_Brian wrote: »

We had the same car just a manual for four years...

When the replace DPF light came on I brought it to the main dealer, they were able to hook up the diagnostic and see that the pressure differential across the DPF was minimal, so they reset the counter and the light went out..

I'd be hesitant to change if unless its showing as blocked, the mechanic I spoke to said the car software is set to flag the DPF based on milage - they check the pressure and if its OK they just mark the DPF as replaced on the software..

My understanding is that the only problem that can occur with a dpf is it can block, if the pressure sensors aren't showing it as blocked then why change it ??

You've seem to have a tough time with the car..

The dpf in the op's car was more than likely blocked with soot when the turbo went. This is very difficult to clean out afterwards so the dpf could well have seen better days.

dr.fuzzenstein

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The dpf in the op's car was more than likely blocked with soot when the turbo went. This is very difficult to clean out afterwards so the dpf could well have seen better days.

No problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVW_Q4wyWU

What blocked DPF?

JohnBoy26

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVW_Q4wyWU

What blocked DPF?

Have you ever tried to unblock a dpf from one of these after a turbo failure? Nowhere as easy as in the vid above.

JBokeh

I got mine gutted and mapped out in the UK on my last 2 cars, they didn't give any trouble, and I'm usually driving the car hard enough to keep it cleared, but for 250 pounds I was happy enough to get rid of it. Had it a sneaky remap too so it is a bit sooty. You'd be surprised how quickly the exhaust system will clog up, if I'm stuck in city traffic or i've done a day of driving under 1800rpm, the first time I give it a good boot it will fill the road with smoke.

I think you can get it done in fermoy,theres a thread somewhere on here about it. It is a nice way to free up a bit of power too

mickdw

So the car cost you nothing until the turbo failed.
Too many garages are quick to say faulty turbo when the new turbo immediately fails. Is more often due to the actions of the garage. They fail to check our why the first turbo failed and just stock a new one one there that is guaranteed to go the same way.
Granted the auto in these is not the best but they are not so bad overall.
I'd take the car to someone who knows what's they are doing. In general there is no drawback in removing the dpf but I don't know the specifics of doing it on the c4. I believe these have an adblue system that needs topping up too.

dr.fuzzenstein

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Have you ever tried to unblock a dpf from one of these after a turbo failure? Nowhere as easy as in the vid above.

Can't say that I have. Flamethrower any good?

Special Circumstances

JBokeh wrote: »

You'd be surprised how quickly the exhaust system will clog up,

Not really...

Marty McFly

mickdw wrote: »

In general there is no drawback in removing the dpf but I don't know the specifics of doing it on the c4. I believe these have an adblue system that needs topping up too.

Is there no drawback? I was talking to a mechanic recently who said he had two cars in that had failed NCT for removing the dpf.

Reckons it depended on who tested your car on the day.

enumbers

open to correction but not currently a fail if dpf is removed

Cookie_Monster

mickdw wrote: »

In general there is no drawback in removing the dpf but I don't know the specifics of doing it on the c4.

If that is the case then why are they installed in the first place?

Marty McFly

enumbers wrote: »

open to correction but not currently a fail if dpf is removed

That's what I thought as well until I was told this. Did say nit always a fail but if you get the wrong tester they will fail you which would make it a bit pot luck If it is the case.

Row

BionicRasher wrote: »

I think my next step might be to get the car to another garage for a second opinion and see if they can get to the bottom of the actual issue.
The local guy is great but I don't think he knows exactly what might be wrong
We didn't get any warning lights at all just no power

DPF cleaning and/or removal all comes in around 400+ Euro. As all we want to do is sell the car ASAP I don't see that I should spend that amount of cash

This thing has cost us in the region of €1500 in the last 2 months and I am not willing to spend excessive amounts on it as we will not be keeping it.

its a real curse having to try to get kids to creche and ourselves to work etc and its putting a lot of stress in to family life at the moment

Diesels - huh......who would have em!!

As said above get the differential pressure across the dpf needs to be checked and if its reading over 300 mbar when driving hard then its pretty blocked.

If need be theres a guy in Galway with reconditioned dpf's within your budget if your interested.
He places the dpf into an bake oven @750 degs c for a 3 hrs to burn off the soot which works pretty well...:)
https://cars.donedeal.ie/caraccessories-for-sale/peugeot-citroen-diagnostic-service/7879270

mickdw

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If that is the case then why are they installed in the first place?

To trap soot particles.
So While there may be a Downe in what Clones out the back when it's removed, I meant that there is no drawback in terms of running the car. In fact a car with dpf removed properly should be more reliable than before.

vectra

BionicRasher wrote: »

I think my next step might be to get the car to another garage for a second opinion and see if they can get to the bottom of the actual issue.
The local guy is great but I don't think he knows exactly what might be wrong
We didn't get any warning lights at all just no power

DPF cleaning and/or removal all comes in around 400+ Euro. As all we want to do is sell the car ASAP I don't see that I should spend that amount of cash

This thing has cost us in the region of €1500 in the last 2 months and I am not willing to spend excessive amounts on it as we will not be keeping it.

its a real curse having to try to get kids to creche and ourselves to work etc and its putting a lot of stress in to family life at the moment

Diesels - huh......who would have em!!

JBokeh wrote: »

I got mine gutted and mapped out in the UK on my last 2 cars, they didn't give any trouble, and I'm usually driving the car hard enough to keep it cleared, but for 250 pounds I was happy enough to get rid of it. Had it a sneaky remap too so it is a bit sooty. You'd be surprised how quickly the exhaust system will clog up, if I'm stuck in city traffic or i've done a day of driving under 1800rpm, the first time I give it a good boot it will fill the road with smoke.

I think you can get it done in fermoy,theres a thread somewhere on here about it. It is a nice way to free up a bit of power too

Give these guys a ring.
They are excellent at their work.

Be pre advised they are Polish but are of the very genuine and honest breed.
Genuinely nice guys.

Ask for Lukasz or Jarek,
Tell them Eugene sent you.

http://fermoygarage.com/?page_id=45

BionicRasher

So DPF is gone off to get cleaned and refitted but wont be ready till Friday at the earliest but will let you all know how it goes
The people doing the cleaning couldn't be more helpful - they have been great so far and have kept in constant contact - lets hope the cleaning works out as well

millington

Had a Volvo with the same engine. Cleaned DPF twice, issue came back almost immediately both times. Removed DPF and that was it sorted.

martinr5232

millington wrote:

Had a Volvo with the same engine. Cleaned DPF twice, issue came back almost immediately both times. Removed DPF and that was it sorted.

There was likely an underlying reason why it wouldnt regenerate.

Zaph

dpfservice, as you posted on behalf of a company (although the forum mods have since deleted your post) I have to ask you to refrain from posting any further until you have obtained a verified rep account from the guys in the office. They can be contacted at reps@boards.ie and I have made them aware that they should be hearing from you.

Please note that further posts without having first obtained a verified rep account will result in a siteban.

millington

martinr5232 wrote: »

There was likely an underlying reason why it wouldnt regenerate.

Well everything else seemed (and still is) fine. Turbos 100% and it doesn't use any oil and isn't at all smoky. Many diagnostics systems couldn't find any other fault at all.

mullingar

BionicRasher wrote: »

Looking for some sound quick advice as we need to make a decision by Friday at the latest.

So we have a have a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 1.6 HDI VTR automatic, lowish mileage (55k) and we have been having nightmares with it.
Bought it from reputable dealer 18 months ago and its been in the garage 5 times for periods of at least a week each time .....as per below.
1. Clutch issue some kind of hydraulic was replaced....dealer covers this. 1week off the road
2. EGR replaced......dealer covers this also. 10 day's off the road.
3. Someone drives in to the back of us causing €3500 worth of damage, new tail door, bumpers, glass etc etc.... Person at fault insurance covers this .....3 weeks off the road
4. Turbos failed..... (Happened 8 weeks ago) €1250 all in to replace....we pay for this. 2 weeks off the road. Work done by Indy local garage
5. Turbos went again.....car off the road for 3 weeks now. Cost covered by warranty by local Indy guy again. Turbos replaced, all the usual stuff completed but errors still show up and car is in limp mode. Main Citroen dealer recommended Front fuse box change. We pay for this €90. Still in limp mode. Citroen recommend DPF is knackered and needs replacing. Cost approximately €785 excluding labour.

So we want rid of the car and will buy a replacement but need to trade this in against the replacement.

I don't want to fork out the bones of €1000 on it.

Should I choose DPF removal? Cost looks to be in the region of €400 by another garage. They seem to specialise in this kind of stuff.

Will it effect trade in?
Will it fail NCT?
Should I tell insurance company?

Is it a wise move?

Any help appreciated as I am far from motor smart!

(BTW we will never buy a diesel again as its not working out with the relatively low milage we do. Also not suited to the slow stop start nature of most of our daily drives......if only I had researched the pitfalls of the diesel before we purchased!!)

Ouch, so very much non wanted motoring woes there.

First of all, an EGR that took 10 days to replace??? Thats a joke for a 1hr job.
Second, the turbo needed changing twice?? The first time it happened I'd nearly put money on it that they failed to to do the job correctly and the replacement turbo died with oil starvation. On that engine you MUST also replace the oil pick-up and oil feed pipes to the turbo and then confirm the correct flow. 90% of failed turbo's is down to oil starvation.
Thirdly, DPF's can be cleaned out as already mentioned.

BionicRasher

mullingar wrote: »

Ouch, so very much non wanted motoring woes there.

First of all, an EGR that took 10 days to replace??? Thats a joke for a 1hr job.
Second, the turbo needed changing twice?? The first time it happened I'd nearly put money on it that they failed to to do the job correctly and the replacement turbo died with oil starvation. On that engine you MUST also replace the oil pick-up and oil feed pipes to the turbo and then confirm the correct flow. 90% of failed turbo's is down to oil starvation.
Thirdly, DPF's can be cleaned out as already mentioned.

So DPF cleaned and refitted. DPF guys mentioned there was oil in the DPF also but now flow was reading 100%. Our garage took it for a drive and lots of smoke but power sounded OK and no limp mode.
However oil pressure warning light now on so he says that he must put it back up on the ramp to look again.
Said something about oil pressure to the turbos and maybe something blocking in a filter or gauze. Might be an oil pump he said.
This is now week 5 in the garage and still the car is knackered.

I will certainly mention what you suggested above.

martinr5232

fuzzydunlop85 wrote:

Seen it and was glad to see Van Gaal very non committal when asked how long Rooney can play at the top level, now he's about to turn 30.

Thats what is doing in the turbos sounds like a very poor diagnosis in the first place.

That engine is well known for its turbo issues. Ford have a procedure for replacing a turbo which includes cleaning sump and strainer im sure other manufacturers have the same and its wasnt carried out in your case.

mullingar

BionicRasher wrote: »

However oil pressure warning light now on so he says that he must put it back up on the ramp to look again.
Said something about oil pressure to the turbos and maybe something blocking in a filter or gauze. Might be an oil pump he said.
This is now week 5 in the garage and still the car is knackered.

I will certainly mention what you suggested above.

You need to definitely ask was the "oil pick-up" replaced. This is an upside-down shaped funnel in the oil sump that has a built-in fine gauze. If this gauze is blocked it will cause all sorts of expensive problems. Unfortunately it's not unheard of for some garages to just poke a few holes through this gauze.

Once back together, it's best to do an oil pressure measurement check. This is done with a pressure gauge that's connected to the hole in the engine where the oil pressure sensor lives, but to gain access the dpf filter has to be removed.

The oil pump replacement is a messy job if it's found faulty .

I've rebuilt a few of these engines now and they simply do not tolerate bad servicing.