Companies with "Unlimited or discretionary" Time off.

allibastor

Just reading the Indo about LinkedIn rolling this out in the states.

Had read something similar from the Virgin group a while back also.

Got me thinking, would this work for anyone under 30?
I know lots of people who are so work obsessed that getting out before 19:00 working in big tech companies where this is seen as the norm.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This is an American idea where most employees only take half their leave entitlements anyway.

MilesMorales1

Well evidence seems to show that workers in companies that do offer unlimited holidays or whatever actually work more or the same hours as someone with proper hours (anecdotal evidence anyway)

conorhal

Oaklee Zealous Cake wrote: »

This is an American idea where most employees only take half their leave entitlements anyway.

It's a subtle way of decreecing the amount of leave people take, give people 21 days annual leave and they'll use it up, make leave something discressionary and the prevailing corporate culture will determine the amount of leave people take. If employees look around and everbody is working late and taking no holidays then they are unlikely to apply for any time off either.

It's part of the subtle cultural shift in corporatism that is erroding working conditions.
For example, I used to go to Personel if I had a problem, but my personhood has been revoked and now I'm a human 'resource' to be managed as a resource.
I used to apply for annual leave, but now in our HR system I log in to 'absence management' to justify why I'm not at my desk.
These shifts in language and terminology betray their true intent, it's just a word, but there's something chilling about refering to a 'holiday as an 'absense'. It encourages a mindset that views time off as a bad thing.

Beware any corporate employer that offers sweetners that superfically look good, because they often come with a sting in the tail.
No employee in their right mind should trade a garenteed number of days off with a notional unlimited amount because I assure you that your boss will find a was to limit them.

.

valoren

The trick is to make people appreciate the perk of being allowed to leave whenever they like but to have them stymied with a work load that won't let them use it.

Red Kev

The other side of the aggressive US model is one that a few companies in Germany introduced: you could take up to 4 weeks of unpaid leave per annum. Result: production increased, people became more loyal to the company and worked harder for it.

The above smacks of some half arsed idea that someone saw in a management magazine/module/conference. It looks good on paper but the consequences are a lot more than a few days of free labour.

If that was introduced where I work, I'd simply be on the look out for a new job, as would most of the management staff.

MrMorooka

I work in an Irish company and get the usual 20ish days a year, but I never really take them, I took 6 days last year and got paid in lieu of the rest.

padd b1975

allibastor wrote: »

I know lots of people who are so work obsessed that getting out before 19:00 working in big tech companies where this is seen as the norm.

Huh??

allibastor

Sorry, meant not getting out before!!

But yes, the things whole idea around the holiday seem to make it harder to leave, I mean once you are close to finishing a project and then planing time off a new project could land on your desk.
Or if you need to book something 2-3 months in advance, what is to say that when this rolls around that you wont be eye deep in a new project.

Would management consider that an employee has time booked, so lets maybe not take on a new client so suit the employee?

valoren

If it sounds too good to be true......;)

Noopti

We offer unlimited leave. We also, as per law, must give employees a minimum 4 weeks statutory leave. So an employees contract will state they have X number of days leave (it doesn't say "unlimited").
But how it works for us is that if an employee has used up all their entitled leave they can still request more. And it is then up to their manager to determine if this can be given (based on workload etc).

We also ensure people take their leave (we try and avoid people carrying over leave). It is just good practice for people to take breaks from work, it results in a happier and much more productive environment.

However I can definitely see where this policy can be an issue in certain countries (eg: US) where employment rights aren't so robust.

Billy86

As of a few years ago, there was a member of upper management in one of the largest insurance agencies in the country who had been on paid leave for over 32 years. Meanwhile the company had enacted almost zero internal promotions or wage rises in four full years.

This company may or may not be known for their breakdown service...

allibastor

Noopti wrote: »

We offer unlimited leave. We also, as per law, must give employees a minimum 4 weeks statutory leave. So an employees contract will state they have X number of days leave (it doesn't say "unlimited").
But how it works for us is that if an employee has used up all their entitled leave they can still request more. And it is then up to their manager to determine if this can be given (based on workload etc).

We also ensure people take their leave (we try and avoid people carrying over leave). It is just good practice for people to take breaks from work, it results in a happier and much more productive environment.

However I can definitely see where this policy can be an issue in certain countries (eg: US) where employment rights aren't so robust.

That is the point though, your company has a minimum statutory leave, and then the rest can be taken once work is completed. These chaps are asking that workers be "owners" of thier holiday time, but if your a 25-30 year old trying to make a couple of moves up the ladder, you wont take any time off.

Jawgap

I work in a firm where I'm expected and allowed to manage my own workload.

In theory it means I can work when I want, where I want and on what I want - in practice it means I end up to a greater or lesser extent working 7 days per week (usually only for a few hours on weekend days though).

It is handy having the flexibility to arrange work around other commitments, but again in practice it usually means other commitments arranged around work.

We do get periodic notes from our HR person reminding us we have to take our statutory and contractual minimum of leave but in practice I usually book the leave and end up working on the day for a few hours.

On the plus side, I quite enjoy my job and technology allows me to pretty much work anywhere.

Quin_Dub

allibastor wrote: »

That is the point though, your company has a minimum statutory leave, and then the rest can be taken once work is completed. These chaps are asking that workers be "owners" of thier holiday time, but if your a 25-30 year old trying to make a couple of moves up the ladder, you wont take any time off.

The point is though, that in Ireland at least there is a legal lower limit of 20 days.

So if you want the 20 days they have absolutely no legal mechanism to prevent you taking them..

If you choose not to take them then that's up to you , but the company can't stop you taking them.

So for a LinkedIn employee in Dublin what this means in reality is that they may be able to take more holidays than the legal minimum depending on circumstances, but if all they want is 20 days then they'll get that, no matter what.

The other view of this though is that it potentially does away with days beyond the statutory limits..

For example , due to length of service I've got extra days beyond the 20 limit, so in theory with this "flexible" approach those extra days could be denied for various reasons...

I can see how this would work in certain companies and with certain roles - It would work for project based people where you have a set list of tasks to complete and the role is largely independent.. but for more structured "production" roles like manufacturing , Call centres etc. I just don't see how it works...

allibastor

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The point is though, that in Ireland at least there is a legal lower limit of 20 days.

So if you want the 20 days they have absolutely no legal mechanism to prevent you taking them..

If you choose not to take them then that's up to you , but the company can't stop you taking them.

So for a LinkedIn employee in Dublin what this means in reality is that they may be able to take more holidays than the legal minimum depending on circumstances, but if all they want is 20 days then they'll get that, no matter what.

The other view of this though is that it potentially does away with days beyond the statutory limits..

For example , due to length of service I've got extra days beyond the 20 limit, so in theory with this "flexible" approach those extra days could be denied for various reasons...

I can see how this would work in certain companies and with certain roles - It would work for project based people where you have a set list of tasks to complete and the role is largely independent.. but for more structured "production" roles like manufacturing , Call centres etc. I just don't see how it works...

That was kind of a point though, The Irish model is one thing and fair enough you get your Min. number of days, but a lot of the time the expectation is that you are still "available" during time off.

I am looking from a Macro point, I mean when a company says you can take off what you want, when you want, will they use that as a tool for measuring your "dedication" to the role, IE if you take 22 days in the sates, but other only take 6, will you be looked at as the office dosser.

Quin_Dub

allibastor wrote: »

That was kind of a point though, The Irish model is one thing and fair enough you get your Min. number of days, but a lot of the time the expectation is that you are still "available" during time off.

I am looking from a Macro point, I mean when a company says you can take off what you want, when you want, will they use that as a tool for measuring your "dedication" to the role, IE if you take 22 days in the sates, but other only take 6, will you be looked at as the office dosser.

Potentially...

I've worked for Large US companies all my working life (~25yrs) and whilst there is an element of looking to see who's working the hardest for the most part it's about what you get done no how long you work..

So if you're the guy that can take 22 days off and still out perform the 70hrs a week fella that never takes a day I know which one of you will get ahead for the most part..

That's not to say that in some corporate cultures there isn't a "anyone working less than 60hrs/week isn't really serious about their career" view, but in my experience , places like that don't last very long or get very big without changing.

I work remotely for a very large US company , rarely see any co-workers/managers so people really don't have a clue about how long I work for , or indeed for the most part what days I take off.. All they know is the work I do..And that's the way it should be in my view...

Eoin

I think Netflix brought in this policy and it was seen as revolutionary - but a few employees said that it sounded great, until you tried to actually take the time off.

If the companies doing this are for real, then they should make it the policy that it's mandatory for the employees to take x days off per year.

sf80

I'm in a company with unlimited; 21 days mandatory, people are averaging about 30