Working/Living in Saudi Arabia

LegalBagezal

Hey i'm basically starting this thread to give people info on living in Saudi Arabia, the strict laws and custums and what to expect if you are moving here !

kerry4sam

Thread moved to where it would be better suited.

Thanks,
kerry4sam

Tom Dunne

So let's start off with the facts - are you an expat or are you a local?

LegalBagezal

EXPAT ! How about you?

Tom Dunne

I'm an expat, but I'm not in Saudi.

LegalBagezal

nice one, middle east?
btw don't go to saudi unless you have to!

amdublin

As it happened a friend of mine who lives in abu dhabi sent me this yesterday

http://www.thejournal.ie/british-pensioner-faces-360-lashes-after-being-caught-with-homemade-wine-in-saudi-arabia-2384713-Oct2015/?utm_source=facebook_short

amdublin

Are you m/f?

What is your accommodation like? Where are you based?

What is transport like/how do you get around?

Tom Dunne

amdublin wrote: »

As it happened a friend of mine who lives in abu dhabi sent me this yesterday

http://www.thejournal.ie/british-pensioner-faces-360-lashes-after-being-caught-with-homemade-wine-in-saudi-arabia-2384713-Oct2015/?utm_source=facebook_short

A cursory look at Google will throw up hundreds, if not thousands of similar cases in the country.

Let's not turn this into a Saudi Arabia bashing thread. Too much material.

amdublin

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A cursory look at Google will throw up hundreds, if not thousands of similar cases in the country.

Let's not turn this into a Saudi Arabia bashing thread. Too much material.

Oh no I genuinely didn't mean to do that.

If anything my friend and I were bashing the person involved during our conversation yesterday. How silly was he.

I am genuinely interested and intrigued about what living in Saudi is like.

Gettingtogrips

The quality of living in Saudi Arabia depends on where you live. I lived in a fairly westernised compound in the Eastern Province where I worked for the big oil company - though over the years more and more Saudis were allowed to live there. It was like living in a biggish Irish town, size wise. Women were allowed to drive there but are not allowed to drive elsewhere in the country though I understand Bedu (Beduoin) women drive in the desert and no doubt others do as well - dressed as men (so I've heard but not witnessed). The compound was big enough to warrant a car and the weather in the summer was such that driving was a must if public transport was not readily available - it being too hot to stand around outside. It is very hard to describe what living in Saudi is like as there are so many contradictions and living out in the community would be so different and it's something I have not experienced. I had a really interesting conversation once with an Indian guy who is a Hindu but who found himself sharing a flat in town with some Christianss. He said they held a Christian service each Sunday when they sang hymns and he was really worried as if they were overheard by the wrong people, they could get into a great deal of trouble - deportation would be the best they could hope for. However, on our compound, Mass and other Christian services were allowed and extremely well attended they were too - Mass mostly by Phillipinas and Indians. Shows how successful our missionary ancestors were! Islam is the only religion officially allowed in Saudi Arabia - all other religions are rubbish as far as they are concerned - we are all infidels.
Alcohol is banned but yet I've heard - no way to corroborate this - that Saudi Arabia is the biggest importer of a certain beer (name escapes me right now) in the world and if that is true then it's for or with the permission of the Royal Family! We made our own alcohol - wine from red and white grape juice imported in vast quantities and beer from "near" beer (non-alcoholic) which is easily turned into alcohol by the addition of sugar and yeast with many other additives (fruit, tea, pepper, chillis, etc.) to make them more individual or palatable. Just don't get caught! In my experience, people who traded in alcohol inevitably eventually got caught and got deported - no flogging - our employers had wasta ('pull' ie. influence) so no floggings or jailing. Though people have been jailed for short periods for being completely stupid - you know the rules, just keep a low profile and don't flout the rules stupidly.
Discrimination. Discrimination is alive and well in Saudi Arabia. The pecking order is: Saudis are top dogs, next Americans, Canadians, British and Irish plus other such "Westeners", with Indians, Bangladeshis, Nepalese being the lowest form of life and treated as such in general. They are the people who work outside in all weathers, are paid poorly, if at all, who are housed appallingly (not that I've ever seen their housing but have heard about it), whose passports are held so they can't leave, who are complete slaves to their Saudi (good Muslim) masters. They live in fear and you can see the fear on their faces as they go about their work. Most of our maintenance people were from those countries as well as the Phillipines (Phillipinos are slightly higher in the pecking order than the others mentioned above but that is not saying much about their status). They lived by a strict set of rules about what they could and couldn't do but if challenged with kindness, reacted with a lovely smile and pleasure.
Shopping. Shopping is a pastime for Saudis especially for the women. They have so little in their lives that wandering around in groups in the malls is their biggest thrill (my observation - could be wrong of course). The malls are great - they are air conditioned and full of a wide variety of shops - Saudi, Lebanese, American, European and others - everything from clothes to shoes to perfumes and make up to sports goods, crockery and cutlery, art, jewellery, electronics, etc. etc. Despite the fact that Saudi women (and the expats) are covered from head to toe or shoulders to toes [I never covered my hair/head there], there are shops with frilly frippery underwear on display in their windows. However, it is not allowed to try on clothes in the women's clothes shops because of the possibility of sexual relations taking place (the religious police [mutawas] are trained to believe that all Westeners and infidels, are always engaging in sexual activity with anyone and everyone). Therefore, because all shops are mostly served by men, women undressing for the purpose of trying on clothes are likely to have sexual relations with any available man. Therefore, you have to pay for the clothes and take them home to try them on or pay for them and take them to a public toilet and try them on there which obviously is far from ideal.
Work. Where I worked, we were expected to have years and years of experience prior to being considered for a job in Saudi. I had years and years of secretarial experience and looked forward to doing an equal job in Saudi to that which I left behind in London. My God, was I shocked when I realised the reality. The work was petty in the extreme with the most important thing being to route documents requiring signatures (most documents required multiple approval signatures unlike the Western world) to the correct people in the correct pecking order. I also had to put stickers on each individual document enclosed within a folder to indicate to each signatory that he (always a 'he') had to flick up to the next and the next document to sign. If I did not have the correct list of signatories or in the correct pecking order, it would be returned to me to do it correctly.
I could go on but I have to say that despite the above, I ended up staying in Saudi Arabia for 17 years and only left when I had to ie. when I got the the age of 61 (having been granted a year's extension which I was lucky to get as 60 is the age at which most expats have to leave). It was an easy life (once I settled in and down), the money was good with no taxes, plenty of holidays and lots of activities. Hence, I am miserable back "home" in Ireland.

smurfjed

The quality of living in Saudi Arabia depends on where you live.

When i first arrived in Jeddah, a friend said if you like your job you will love Saudi. Well it was true, from the first weekend where i watched 5 rock bands competing in a competition to spending St Paddys Day in Murphys Irish Bar, Saudi is an enigma, some absolutely love it, some hate it, some are basically financially imprisoned there.

As a male, there is a lot to do apart from shopping, i have gone paragliding from 10,000 ft mountains in the south, thrown snowballs in the north, sat with Bedouins in their camps, watched camel racing in Taif, driven along the turkish railway, visited Madain Saleh, driven across part of the empty quarter, snorkeled and windsurfed in the red sea, gone to discos and nightclubs (hidden of course) and met some tremendous people.

Now what were you saying about strict laws and customs?

Gettingtogrips

"As a male, there is a lot to do apart from shopping". Don't get me wrong please smurfjed, I said and indeed meant that shopping is a big pastime for Saudi women and that is probably because that is all they are allowed to do or that is available for them to do. There aren't many places they can go to let off steam and they will always need a male driver so are at the mercy of their male relatives or their drivers (usually a 3rd world man).
Anyway, I really just wanted to say that as a female in Saudi, I learned to dive there and went on dive trips to dive sites in the Eastern Province as well as the Red Sea. I even organized a female only snorkeling trip to Yanbu (Red Sea) - having decided that I preferred that to all the faffing around required for diving) though the dive master was really bored with us and persuaded some of us to do a dive on that trip. I've been to Madain Saleh also which is the Saudi equivalent of Petra in Jordan. Nobody, bar Saudis (most of whom have no interest) and expats working there, get the opportunity to visit such sites. I felt very privileged to have had such opportunities.
Like smurfjed, I too have witnessed the amazing talent that abounds among the expats - everything from acting to crafts/art, to musicians of every kind (including an amazing Big Band), golfers, squash players - talent of every kind. Life was very varied and I miss it.

canadabound1

hi,
sorry for switching the topic but i was thinking of working in saudi. i am a graduate civil engineer with about one year experience. is it worth while me considering going to saudi with such little experience and what websites etc. should i be applying to?