Buying a 2016 Nissan Leaf SV

BrendanD

I test drove the Leaf yesterday and have arranged to take it again for the weekend.
I was really surprised with the power and acceleration and the speck of the interior.
I commute from Limerick to cork 4 times a week and the round trip is 192 km a day.
I am currently driving a Toyota Pris the 2007 model which i love i spend about 80e a week on petrol.
There are two charging stations where i work.
I am looking for advice on which is the best finance option for me , according to the Nissan site i would have a trade in allowance of 6350 e and on 36 months PCP the monthly cost would be 380e.
The cost of a 4 year finance would be 455e per month.
Is it worth the extra 3000e for the bigger battery.
Is this a viable option for me ?.
Thanks in advance

Brendan

BrendanD

BrendanD wrote: »

I test drove the Leaf yesterday and have arranged to take it again for the weekend.
I was really surprised with the power and acceleration and the speck of the interior.
I commute from Limerick to cork 4 times a week and the round trip is 192 km a day.
I am currently driving a Toyota Pris the 2007 model which i love i spend about 80e a week on petrol.
There are two charging stations where i work.
I am looking for advice on which is the best finance option for me , according to the Nissan site i would have a trade in allowance of 6350 e and on 36 months PCP the monthly cost would be 380e.
The cost of a 4 year finance would be 455e per month.
Is it worth the extra 3000e for the bigger battery.
Is this a viable option for me ?.
Thanks in advance

Brendan

Yes the bigger 30 Kwh battery is absolutely without doubt essential for you pretty high 192 km trip.

The 30 Kwh should see a range of 140-160 possibly 180 kms in warmer weather.

@3.5 Miles/ Kwh efficiency this would give you 94 miles range but add heater and a cold battery and that will get less but 3.5 miles/ Kwh isn't slow driving. I don't have a clue what that equates into the ridiculous European Kwh/100 Kms.

it's a 30 kwh battery but should have 27 Kwh usable so 3.5 Miles per kwh x 27 =94.5.

The 6.6 kw seemingly is optional for us Europeans so it's 900 extra, again I think this is pretty essential with the 30 Kwh battery , not so essential at work to charge over 8 hrs and possibly at home, if you got 6 Kwh left in the battery then it will take around 9-9.5 hrs for a full charge the last 5% or so takes a good while.

If you got the 6.6 Kw Charger this goes down to 4.5 hrs but you won't arrive home with 0 % so charge times for both will be less.

There are many AC charge points around shown as the green icons on the ESB charge point map. And having the 6.6 Kw charger means you can get a lot of charge in about 2 hrs 12 Kwh to be pretty exact so that would get you 42-50 miles range compared to 21-25 miles with the 3.3 Kw charger.

All this means less trips and time on the fast charger.

is it viable ? probably if you intend to keep the car a long time because you will loose a lot due to depreciation but you'll save a lot over petrol/diesel.

If like I you intended to get a new car then the Ev is a no brainer.

feichin

I do a similar commute - 200 KM door to door, and usually a bit of work driving during the day (around 50km most days) with chargers available at work. Mad_lad advised me previously that the 24kw probably wouldn't have the legs for me most days. I''m starting to think that maybe the 30kw would be suitable, but my concern is that while the 30kw would be sufficient when it's new, what would it be like in 3>4 years time with 150K to 200K on the clock, its would then be a high mileage car with the battery at something less than 100% and no longer able for the commute home without additional charging.
Any opinions???

feichin

feichin wrote: »

I do a similar commute - 200 KM door to door, and usually a bit of work driving during the day (around 50km most days) with chargers available at work. Mad_lad advised me previously that the 24kw probably wouldn't have the legs for me most days. I''m starting to think that maybe the 30kw would be suitable, but my concern is that while the 30kw would be sufficient when it's new, what would it be like in 3>4 years time with 150K to 200K on the clock, its would then be a high mileage car with the battery at something less than 100% and no longer able for the commute home without additional charging.
Any opinions???

The current gen leaf is proving a lot more reliable, there is a U.K taxi that clocked 102,000 ( about 160,000 kms) miles and lost around 10% of the battery according to leaf spy.

So say 140 Kms -10% = 126 Kms however he had fast charged it 1,777 times, it's possible that without so much fast charging it could have lost less but that's still pretty impressive for a small battery.

126 Kms is do-a-ble with work charging.

Another scenario, you got to use fast charging,

126 Kms after 160,000 Kms -20% (charged to 80%) on the fast charger = 100-110 Kms range.

If you got work charging and charge 100% I would say you could do that for well past 160,000 Kms however do remember that in just 2018 the leaf will have 240-300 Kms range.

At 190-200 Kms daily mileage, depreciation will hammer you, you'd probably be better off buying it and driving it until it's not usable and hope Nissan will allow you buy a new battery or wait until the 2018 Leaf or whatever is around then .

So I would say the 30 kwh makes it a lot more do-a-ble a 190-200 Km commute with work charging a 100 % charge should get you 280 Kms or 250 Kms on an 80% charge if needing to fast charge. (1st charge 100% and 2nd 80%) the fast charge can take 30 mins and 40 in the cold.

My consumption is 17.2 kwh/100 kms average so that tells me to do 200 kms I need 34.4 Kwh to do 200 Kms.

At 190-200 Kms commute you would probably be better off getting rid of it after the 3 years anyway to keep some value in it. On the + you stand to save a lot more the more mileage you do in the leaf over petrol or diesel.

So if the leaf is basically paying for itself especially with work charging then get rid of it after the 3 years for the longer range 2018.

200 Kms daily = 44,000 kms over 11 months (counting holidays bank hols etc.)

If it would cost me 300 euro's for 20,000 Kms on night rate electricity at my consumption then to do 40,000 kms would cost me 600 euro's.

Fast charging won't be free from January 2016 not announced yet. But it would dent that saving a bit. free work charging would see half your commute for free !

feichin

[At 190-200 Kms daily mileage, depreciation will hammer you, you'd probably be better off buying it and driving it until it's not usable and hope Nissan will allow you buy a new battery or wait until the 2018 Leaf or whatever is around then .

I agree about the depreciation, and really that's my concern. My current car is a 10 year old diesel with 560K on the clock, if I spend some money on it, it should go through the NCT and continue to go the distance (until the next thing wears out) so it's still "usable" for now!!! but, with the leaf, at some unknown point in the future (probably 3 >5 years) the battery wont go the distance for me. It would probably still be more than adequate for someone with a more normal driving range but I fear I wouldn't get any sort of decent trade in or sale because of the high mileage and effectively the car would no longer suit my needs.
I agree with everything else you say about the more you drive it the more efficient it becomes - until the depreciation kicks in and the battery checks out

feichin

feichin wrote: »

I agree about the depreciation, and really that's my concern. My current car is a 10 year old diesel with 560K on the clock, if I spend some money on it, it should go through the NCT and continue to go the distance (until the next thing wears out) so it's still "usable" for now!!! but, with the leaf, at some unknown point in the future (probably 3 >5 years) the battery wont go the distance for me. It would probably still be more than adequate for someone with a more normal driving range but I fear I wouldn't get any sort of decent trade in or sale because of the high mileage and effectively the car would no longer suit my needs.
I agree with everything else you say about the more you drive it the more efficient it becomes - until the depreciation kicks in and the battery checks out

Well I would say 5 years at 44,000 Kms per year is do-a-ble with the 30 Kwh especially with work charging. However do try to change in 3 years for the 2018.

I fit would cost 300 Euro's per 20,000 Kms on night rate leccy then it will cost less with work charging. So calculate the savings + the savings on motor tax and maintenance.

Any car will depreciate a lot with that mileage but an ICE car will cost you depreciation + Diesel, so you will lose far more on an ICE car and flogging it after 3 years ensures you got some value in it rather than loose more.

The larger the battery the less it's cycled so the longer range Leaf in 2018 should last longer again. But if you have 90% after 160,000 Kms then this will still get you 126 Kms on a full charge however I can't guarantee this because the U.K taxi was 2 years old and 5 years is longer time wise and time itself has an effect on batteries.

I would say it's more than do-a-ble for 3-5 years provided you continue to have work charging.

BoatMad

Fast charging won't be free from January 2016 not announced yet. But it would dent that saving a bit. free work charging would see half your commute for free !

I was told end of 2016.

Feichin , I would suggest that the Leaf is not a good fit, you certainly will blow the PCP finance mileage limitations out of the water. You will also experience very high depreciation with that type of mileage and nobody really knows here in Ireland what that car might be worth.

I'd suggest a diesel, leaf as a financial payback , against other cars has too long a break even period. In essence it makes no sense on financial grounds , only on grounds if you want an EV ( and are prepared to pay for it). This is even more so when you add 4k for the bigger battery and larger charger to go with it.

Why would a diesel make more sense given the fact it will also depreciate and cost far more to run ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would a diesel make more sense given the fact it will also depreciate and cost far more to run ?

Because the difference in price , and the difference in cost of fuel, make a leaf payback a very long time.

With the high mileage , it's really unknown what the leaf will be worth , certainly it won't be PCP-able. Whereas a diesel , even with high mileage will have a known value , based on years of built up experience.

At this mileage , there is a big risk that battery capacity could drop significantly , and the mileage would most likely take the car outside the conditions of the 2016 battery warranty.

I don't think the leaf is a great idea for " boundary " conditions of high mileage , we simply don't have enough feedback from the cars out there , and there has been too much twiddling with the battery pack to make consistent comparisons over the current leaf

In that regard , we effectively start with no history on the 30 kW battery

The 30 Kwh has an 8 year 160,000 Kms warranty to 70%.

At 70% the 30 Kwh would have a range of 98 Kms or more. I can't see it having 70% after 160,000 Kms considering the U.K taxi having still about 90 % after 160,000 Kms and over 1,700 fast charges.

The 30 Kwh leaf will be fine over 3 -5 years.

I would find out what the Leaf will be valued at if they do quote for PCP at the end with the mileage but probably have to go on normal finance.

I could not imaging loosing more than the diesel considering the cost of fuel.

robnet77

BrendanD wrote: »

... I am currently driving a Toyota Pris the 2007 model which i love i spend about 80e a week on petrol.
There are two charging stations where i work.
I am looking for advice on which is the best finance option for me , according to the Nissan site i would have a trade in allowance of 6350 e and on 36 months PCP the monthly cost would be 380e...

Hi, can I ask how much is your car worth normally, for example on online listings?

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't see it having 70% after 160,000 Kms considering the U.K taxi having still about 90 % after 160,000 Kms and over 1,700 fast charges.

The new 30kWh chemistry should do much better than that Taxi.

Nissan's estimate is half the rate of capacity loss of the 2014 24kWh. That;s why they felt comfortable with extending the warranty.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

The new 30kWh chemistry should do much better than that Taxi.

Nissan's estimate is half the rate of capacity loss of the 2014 24kWh. That;s why they felt comfortable with extending the warranty.

You're absolutely correct, I had completely forgot about the new chemistry being NMC which does indeed have a longer cycle life.

The 30 Kwh could turn out to be a very long lasting battery and possibly usable well beyond 200,000 Kms. Time will tell.

BrendanD

robnet77 wrote: »

Hi, can I ask how much is your car worth normally, for example on online listings?

I think an average price would be about 6000
Just on the charging cable is this or this a good buy ? seems a lot cheaper than the one on the Nissan site

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

You're absolutely correct, I had completely forgot about the new chemistry being NMC which does indeed have a longer cycle life.

The 30 Kwh could turn out to be a very long lasting battery and possibly usable well beyond 200,000 Kms. Time will tell.

But haven't all leaf batteries been NMC.

I suspect the longer warranty is merely based on the fact that nissan have historical data to go on now. I doubt it's much to do with tweaks in battery chemistry

BoatMad

BrendanD wrote: »

I think an average price would be about 6000
Just on the charging cable is this or this a good buy ? seems a lot cheaper than the one on the Nissan site

You get a type 2 to type 1 cable with irish leafs as standard.

Are you talking about the portable evse cable ( granny cable ) withe the domestic three pin plug at the end.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

But haven't all leaf batteries been NMC.

I suspect the longer warranty is merely based on the fact that nissan have historical data to go on now. I doubt it's much to do with tweaks in battery chemistry

Nope, the 24kWh launch with the MK1 was plain LMO. The new 30kWh is NMC.
Don't know what the story is with the MK1.5 battery...

robnet77

BrendanD wrote: »

I think an average price would be about 6000
Just on the charging cable is this or this a good buy ? seems a lot cheaper than the one on the Nissan site

then you're not availing of the scrappage deal Nissan currently do, it seems, as they valued your car at about its current value.

There are chances you could get a better deal off a different dealer, just tell them you were given X money for your car and they might want to beat that.

mr.dunkey

BrendanD wrote: »

I think an average price would be about 6000
Just on the charging cable is this or this a good buy ? seems a lot cheaper than the one on the Nissan site

Public charging cables from Irish sellers such as www.theEVcompany.com
You will be hit with import tax if buy outside europe

BoatMad

mr.dunkey wrote: »

Public charging cables from Irish sellers such as www.theEVcompany.com
You will be hit with import tax if buy outside europe

The import tax on electronics s small, you will have vat of course

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

The import tax on electronics s small, you will have vat of course

Yup, EV charging cables it's only 3%. What kills things is the customs handling fees if they use a courier.

robnet77

yesterday I test drove a Leaf finally... very quiet and responsive, however I noticed a couple of things...

- steering wheel is not very accurate, when doing roundabouts I had to adjust it continuously as it would not follow the car's trajectory
- leather seats are rather slippery, too bad as they look great
- seats in general are not too comfortable

BoatMad

i notice in the comments section of this article http://insideevs.com/breaking-30-kwh-2016-nissan-leaf-gets-epa-range-rating-107-miles/

that the new charging regime for the 30 kw is that nissan has extended the fast full power cycle to nearly 80% , they must be very confident of this battery !!!

baktag

Well after a 3 day test drive, and weeks watching the EV forum on here I'm booking my 2016 Leaf SV. Just waiting on the Minister for colour to decide on White Pearl or Grey Metallic
Can anyone tell how long it takes to have the 24 hour meter changed to a day/night meter with the ESB as its only October?

samih

baktag wrote: »

Well after a 3 day test drive, and weeks watching the EV forum on here I'm booking my 2016 Leaf SV. Just waiting on the Minister for colour to decide on White Pearl or Grey Metallic
Can anyone tell how long it takes to have the 24 hour meter changed to a day/night meter with the ESB as its only October?

Excellent choice, 30 kWh?. Too many grey cars on the road already ;-) Our meter took about 3 weeks to install but I reckon somebody forgot about it as when I rang to confirm ESB networks sounded like that they never got the initial request. Some people got theirs fitted in a few days.

baktag

samih wrote: »

Excellent choice, 30 kWh?. Too many grey cars on the road already ;-) Our meter took about 3 weeks to install but I reckon somebody forgot about it as when I rang to confirm ESB networks sounded like that they never got the initial request. Some people got theirs fitted in a few days.

No, I can't stretch the €3000 I'm already at my limit my average daily commute is 80 km

cros13

baktag wrote: »

Can anyone tell how long it takes to have the 24 hour meter changed to a day/night meter with the ESB as its only October?

They are supposed to do it inside 7 days.

Padraig Mor

samih wrote: »

Our meter took about 3 weeks to install but I reckon somebody forgot about it as when I rang to confirm ESB networks sounded like that they never got the initial request. Some people got theirs fitted in a few days.

My experience so far too. Have twice contacted Electric Ireland who have so far failed to inform ESB Networks. Ongoing nearly two months at this stage.

I do like this colour but dark colours show every damn stone chip and scratch !

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

yesterday I test drove a Leaf finally... very quiet and responsive, however I noticed a couple of things...

- steering wheel is not very accurate, when doing roundabouts I had to adjust it continuously as it would not follow the car's trajectory
- leather seats are rather slippery, too bad as they look great
- seats in general are not too comfortable

Leaf is a Heavy car, but it's low centre of gravity mean it handles well for a normal hatch.

I don't find it bad at all on roundabouts. Not with the 17" wheels at least.

Don't find the seats bad either. Definitely better than my MK II Prius.

baktag

Well the minister for colour choose the Pearl white , should go well the dark windows on the SV. Just have to wait 2 1/2 months for my new toy, it's going to be a very long 2 1/2 months