Are schools really different now?

MilesMorales1

I've been watching that educating cardiff program on CH4, and the way this school and other schools in the same series has blown my mind, the way these schools molly coddle the kids and talk such hippy bull crap, it blows my mind. If I'd behaved like some of the kids on this programs, starting fights, telling teachers to **** off, walking out of class, smoking on school property, no respect at all, at best I'd have gotten a harsh punishment, my dad would have beaten me within an inch of my life if I behaved like these kids.

Are all secondary schools like this now, or do they just showcase them on the telly? When did this approach to schools start? These teachers are more like social workers than teachers.

The_Valeyard

Heard stories of schools in the UK like war zones compared to here.

Sunnyisland

Back in my day there was corporal punishment, now it seems the kids give it out.... Just saying.

delthedriver

Think it started when Mom and Dad decided that they wanted to be their kids BF's instead of being the parents.


This behavioural change started in the home environment first, then school.


I agree this behaviour would never have been tolerated at home or school 20years ago.!!!

eet fuk

Back in my day... blah blah blah

delthedriver

realies wrote: »

Back in my day there was corporal punishment, now it seems the kids give it out.... Just saying.

Quite right!

MilesMorales1

delthedriver wrote: »

Think it started when Mom and Dad decided that they wanted to be their kids BF's instead of being the parents.


This behavioural change started in the home environment first, then school.


I agree this behaviour would never have been tolerated at home or school 20years ago.!!!

Sounds right.

I went to school in co Leitrim from 88 to 93, there were always certain students that didn't care about education.
I'm sure its the same all over the country.
They were abusive and gave teachers and students a hard time.
We also had an area for smokers, from 1st year on. So long as you smokjed in a certain area it was OK.

Why? Because parents didn't mind.
Education and discipline begin at home.

wakka12

Yes its changed a lot. But middle aged people really over exagerrate how easy school is now and how little punishment students receive etc..

ohnonotgmail

[Insert obligatory 4 yorkshiremen quote here]

delthedriver

wakka12 wrote: »

Yes its changed a lot. But middle aged people really over exagerrate how easy school is now and how little punishment students receive etc..

I don't agree with corporal punishment, however their needs to be ground rules , codes of conduct, ethics ,morals principals and respect. Sadly the aforementioned do not apply whether at school or in business. In the real world it has become a case of dog each dog. Societies no longer function. Is it any wonder the world has become such a nasty place????

MilesMorales1

I don't agree with caning and the like, but surely you need more power to punish rather than what they seem to do now.

wakka12

delthedriver wrote: »

I don't agree with corporal punishment, however their needs to be ground rules , codes of conduct, ethics ,morals principals and respect. Sadly the aforementioned do not apply whether at school or in business. In the real world it has become a case of dog each dog. Societies no longer function. Is it any wonder the world has become such a nasty place????

And what makes you think the world has become a nastier place? Other than from your point of view you think it seems nastier. I think school is better now, things like bullying are death with much more seriously. Children are no longer told to 'toughen up' or just deal with it, and physical fights are extremely rare now. My parents say they were common as children. Lots of things have changed for the better

eet fuk

delthedriver wrote: »

I don't agree with corporal punishment, however their needs to be ground rules , codes of conduct, ethics ,morals principals and respect. Sadly the aforementioned do not apply whether at school or in business. In the real world it has become a case of dog each dog. Societies no longer function. Is it any wonder the world has become such a nasty place????

Jaysus, what planet are you living on? Tell us more about this utopian paradise that you grew up in.

Robsweezie

Maybe it's an English thing? I find over there and in America they do more to engage with students rather than just phoning it in through rote learning. They have more personality about them.

Over here it's very much " shut up and learn" which is not always a bad thing, but it's good to have people who motivate and inspire students as well as showing them How to do functions and graphs.

byhookorbycrook

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

These teachers are more like social workers than teachers.

Any time a social issue surfaces, there's always some donkey of a politician who wants whatever it is dealt with in school. Teachers are to blame for the following apparently as we do not do enough to address them all at school:

1. unsafe driving among young drivers
2. substance abuse
3. cyberbullying
4. obesity
5. teenage pregnancy
6. any student not getting 600 points in the LC
7. increase of ADHD in young males

The list goes on.

eet fuk

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Any time a social issue surfaces, there's always some donkey of a politician who wants whatever it is dealt with in school. Teachers are to blame for the following apparently as we do not do enough to address them all at school:

1. unsafe driving among young drivers
2. substance abuse
3. cyberbullying
4. obesity
5. teenage pregnancy
6. any student not getting 600 points in the LC
7. increase of ADHD in young males

The list goes on.

At least they're paid handsomely to deal with such issues.

For Forks Sake

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

[Insert obligatory 4 yorkshiremen quote here]

Okely dokely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

Junkyard Tom

The children now love luxury... etc


Some dude: A couple of thousand years ago.

.

Maximus Alexander

And the wider population of Boards creeps inexorably into middle age.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I've been watching that educating cardiff program on CH4, and the way this school and other schools in the same series has blown my mind, the way these schools molly coddle the kids and talk such hippy bull crap, it blows my mind. If I'd behaved like some of the kids on this programs, starting fights, telling teachers to **** off, walking out of class, smoking on school property, no respect at all, at best I'd have gotten a harsh punishment, my dad would have beaten me within an inch of my life if I behaved like these kids.

Are all secondary schools like this now, or do they just showcase them on the telly? When did this approach to schools start? These teachers are more like social workers than teachers.

Either it's a specific school or you;re massively exagerating in order to justify some knd of anti-leftist rant.

MilesMorales1

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Either it's a specific school or you;re massively exagerating in order to justify some knd of anti-leftist rant.

It's really not. The one they did in Yorkshire and London were similar.

Schools in Ireland are not like that for the most part anyway, no matter what the case or the issues behind this, schools in middle class areas have less behaviour issue and more engagement with school values by the pupils.

A lot of schools take no messing a friend of mine son is in an all boys school in a mixed area and its very cut an dried as regards what's expected of the pupils the school has an excellent principle that the key.

SEPT 23 1989

My only experience of English schools was watching Grange Hill

conorhal

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Any time a social issue surfaces, there's always some donkey of a politician who wants whatever it is dealt with in school. Teachers are to blame for the following apparently as we do not do enough to address them all at school:

1. unsafe driving among young drivers
2. substance abuse
3. cyberbullying
4. obesity
5. teenage pregnancy
6. any student not getting 600 points in the LC
7. increase of ADHD in young males

The list goes on.

The list goes on becaue so many parents seem to have almost wholy abdicated their responsibility to dicipline, socialise and provide a moral framwork for their children. This is now expected to be the job of teachers, which would be fine if the parents didn't immediately undermine them the second that they dicipline little Johnny or Mary.
All too often a teacher is just as likely to be told to 'eff off by a parent as they are by a child, and that's not limited to the poor or deprived areas either. Behind most abnoxious kids you'll find an equally abnoxious parent.

mahoganygas

I don't think schools are all to blame.

Today we see more families with both parents in employment. I see a lot of children with minimal parental supervision. It then falls on creche workers, grandparents, child minders etc. to step in and occupy the role of parent.

Children have unusual / confrontational relationships with their parents. I think a lot of this has to do with the parents never being there for them growing up.

And I don't mean 'be there for them' in a hippy dippy sort of way. I mean by providing moral guidance, or even being an authority figure.

In the 70's/80's Irish women remained in the workforce after marriage and this was a great thing.
I'm 100% in favor of gender equality and women succeeding in the workplace. However I do feel that feminism has a lot to answer for.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

It's really not. The one they did in Yorkshire and London were similar.

Did you get the names of the schools?

Also, can you specific what happened in the documentary that falls under the banner of "molly coddle the kids and talk such hippy bull crap"?

ruahead

I've taught in 2 schools in Wales and 2 in England, not inner city schools and have to say that yes it is exactly like that show. Spoonfeeding and total lack of discipline. Teachers get little or no back up from parents and the school and are forced to put up with it. I have left the profession and am happier. Hope it is not the case in Eire.

Dirty Dingus McGee

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I've been watching that educating cardiff program on CH4, and the way this school and other schools in the same series has blown my mind, the way these schools molly coddle the kids and talk such hippy bull crap, it blows my mind. If I'd behaved like some of the kids on this programs, starting fights, telling teachers to **** off, walking out of class, smoking on school property, no respect at all, at best I'd have gotten a harsh punishment, my dad would have beaten me within an inch of my life if I behaved like these kids.

Are all secondary schools like this now, or do they just showcase them on the telly? When did this approach to schools start? These teachers are more like social workers than teachers.

Surely as it's a TV programme the teachers are putting on a bit of an act and trying to be like a Robin Williams style teacher rather than one in the real world.

Andrewf20

If there's a TV crew in the classroom I suspect it won't show the true nature of classroom behaviour.

evolving_doors

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Surely as it's a TV programme the teachers are putting on a bit of an act and trying to be like a Robin Williams style teacher rather than one in the real world.

Ya and that Film ended just great didn't it.

The issue I think is a move away from a curriculum based education to a 'child centered' one. The UK system does that in spades, each child is measured to the hilt on thier 'progress' targets and if they are not improving then the teacher simply doesn't get a pay rise. Great you say, but the course work has become so dumbed down for them in order to get the 'increasing grades', also if a child fails then it's simply put upon the teacher to 'set the test at a more appropriate level'.

Now...

In Ireland we can see that this is the way teaching is being pushed. The Junior cert subjects are being replaced by 'short courses' designed by the teachers in each school, the exam has been shortened and the practical component is being assessed by the teacher. Results of each school are set to be publicised ...so we know what way that test is going to be set! Also the NCCA who design curriculuae handed the plans for the syllabii to Ruairi Quinn for the new JC, he tore them up and said that teachers can create their own lessons.

So yes, if yer young and willing to prance around the room and do countless hours of measuring and paperwork for the sake of 'edutainment' then you would do well in the UK. Then again I can see why so many new recruits to teaching in the UK burn out after their first year.

Is Ireland like that, ,maybe in some extreme schools, but I'd guess it's going to be heading the same way the UK is trying to turn back from!

zanador

30 years ago those kids would have been beaten by either teachers or their peers and then dropped out of school to cause havoc in society. How is this way any worse than that?

DEFTLEFTHAND

zanador wrote: »

30 years ago those kids would have been beaten by either teachers or their peers and then dropped out of school to cause havoc in society. How is this way any worse than that?

They still drop out and cause havoc, they only problem these days is that they get away with everything and as a result have no respect for their teachers. I got a true glimpse of this when I dropped back to pass maths class in Junior Cert, I was thrown in with absolute scumbags who disrupted every class and made it very difficult for civilised students to learn, I would have been shagged without taking grinds.

After the JC they all dropped out to go on the dole and some drifted into crime.
I'm not saying fear of beatings is a way to control a classroom either, but there must be some respect for the teacher's authority.

zanador

So this system doesn't work. But saying going back to the old way is silly as well. We need a new way.

I know you said the same thing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ya and that Film ended just great didn't it.

Yep. Crush creativity and individuality and see what happens (assuming you're talkign about Dead Poets Society)

In any case he was referring to Wiliams the actor and not the character portrayed.

The issue I think is a move away from a curriculum based education to a 'child centered' one. The UK system does that in spades, each child is measured to the hilt on thier 'progress' targets and if they are not improving then the teacher simply doesn't get a pay rise. Great you say, but the course work has become so dumbed down for them in order to get the 'increasing grades', also if a child fails then it's simply put upon the teacher to 'set the test at a more appropriate level'.

Now...

In Ireland we can see that this is the way teaching is being pushed. The Junior cert subjects are being replaced by 'short courses' designed by the teachers in each school, the exam has been shortened and the practical component is being assessed by the teacher. Results of each school are set to be publicised ...so we know what way that test is going to be set! Also the NCCA who design curriculuae handed the plans for the syllabii to Ruairi Quinn for the new JC, he tore them up and said that teachers can create their own lessons.

So yes, if yer young and willing to prance around the room and do countless hours of measuring and paperwork for the sake of 'edutainment' then you would do well in the UK. Then again I can see why so many new recruits to teaching in the UK burn out after their first year.

Is Ireland like that, ,maybe in some extreme schools, but I'd guess it's going to be heading the same way the UK is trying to turn back from!

That's a philosphy that can work, but at the end of the day it won't in an heavily exam-based education system. Especally if the teachers are setting the exams.

newacc2015

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

After the JC they all dropped out to go on the dole and some drifted into crime.
I'm not saying fear of beatings is a way to control a classroom either, but there must be some respect for the teacher's authority.

If you have to resort to violence for authority you are a weak person. Using violence doesnt make you an authoritarian figure. I had teachers who could make your life hell without even saying a word or lifting a figure. There is certain body cues than can make people come across as authoritarian.

Look at the Stanford Prison Experiment. You can condition people to see you are an authoritarian figure pretty easily without the use of violence.

This 2015. If you are using violence for power, you are just stupid. Wars are now fought in conference rooms, than on the battle field ie the EU destroyed the Russian Economy with sanctions. They have destroyed the lives of millions without even having to use any arms

Azalea

The approaches by the teachers seem very effective actually. It's not at all hippy bull crap in my opinion, it's properly engaging with the pupils and attempting to see things from their perspectives. It's focusing on the pupils' strong points rather than emphasising where they're going wrong.

It's being filmed though, so it's not day-to-day reality - I don't think schools in normal circumstances would have the resources to do the above at all times.

4ensic15

I blame the parents.