Refusing to give a breath sample when not drinking

kidneyfan

What happens if you aren't drunk in any way and just point blank refuse a sample and refuse to get out of the car and refuse to accompany the guards?

Sofiztikated

I'm going to guess you'll get arrested for being a twat.

EDIT: Apologies, saw this come up, thought it was in AH.

uck51js9zml2yt

You get arrested for failing to provide a breath test and for refusing to obey the instructions of a gard.
You may well feel the effects of a baton if you resist.
Let's know how you get on

Claude Burgundy

Brought to a station for a blood sample i believe

seamus

Refusing to provide a specimen is an offence in itself. Up to a €5k fine and/or 6 months in prison.

If you refuse to provide a specimen at the roadside, the Gardai can arrest you and bring you down to the station. Obviously refusing to accompany them is resisting arrest and you will be brought down to the station whether you like it or not.

It actually introduces an interesting situation where someone can avoid a drink-driving conviction by simply refusing to be tested. A judge availed of this "defence" a few years back. Knowing that he was stocious drunk, he refused the test and took the gamble on that conviction instead. Rather than a lengthy driving ban and a big fine, he just got a €600 fine instead.

IMO, the gamble actually paid off for him.

kyogger

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm going to guess you'll get arrested for being a twat.

I'm going to guess he will get arrested for failing to provide a breath specimen.

OP, whether you had any drink or not is irrlevant to that offence.

kidneyfan

So failing to comply with the guards request to blow into the thing is itself a crime. That's pretty clever.

Feed Up

When driving you must, when requested by a member of AnGS, give a breath sample. Failure to do so is an arrestable offence. Irrespective of whether you have been drinking or not you will get at least a two year driving ban from the judge for refusing the breath test.

Now if you want to resist the arrest, refuse to get out of the car, etc., it might be a good idea to bring a basic overnight bag to the court appearance and leave all valuables at home.

whippet

not providing a sample when requested is a difference offence to drink driving .. but carries the same or similar penalty.

i'd be interested in wondering why someone would refuse if they were not drinking ..but then again I tend to think rationally rather than just being stubborn for the sake of it

seamus

kidneyfan wrote: »

So failing to comply with the guards request to blow into the thing is itself a crime. That's pretty clever.

Well it would have to be. Otherwise everyone would refuse.
It also allows arrest without having to prove suspicion. Refusing to blow into the breathalyser isn't evidence of intoxication itself, so you couldn't arrest someone on that basis.

whippet wrote: »

not providing a sample when requested is a difference offence to drink driving .. but carries the same or similar penalty.

Except it generally doesn't carry a driving ban...

i'd be interested in wondering why someone would refuse if they were not drinking ..but then again I tend to think rationally rather than just being stubborn for the sake of it

Just being stubborn. I'd say Gardai encounter a couple of them every night, but once they let the person know that refusal will turn a five minute checkpoint into five hours down the station and a court appearance, everyone complies.

Claw Hammer

seamus wrote: »

Well it would have to be. Otherwise everyone would refuse.

Except it generally doesn't carry a driving ban...

No giving a sample results in a four year ban if the refusal is in the station. In some cases a perswn refuses at the roadside and then gives a sample in the station. There is still a penalty for refusal to provide the roadside sample.

VisibleGorilla

Where is this ban in law?


(3) A person who refuses or fails to comply immediately with a requirement under this section commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

That's it.

Feed Up

seamus wrote: »

Except it generally doesn't carry a driving ban...

It most certainly does carry a driving ban, and a fine.

And then when you get back on the road you have to deal with your insurance company and if you're looking for sympathy from an insurance company, you'll find it in the dictionary between sh*t and syphilis.

moleyv

Does a garda need reasonable grounds to request a sample? Or anyone they want without reason?

pancuronium

Assumption is made that you are max over the limit and your prosecuted on that basis.

Feed Up

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Where is this ban in law?


(3) A person who refuses or fails to comply immediately with a requirement under this section commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

That's it.

I don't have the qualification/knowledge to read and understand legislation but I can, if I may, point you in the direction of the provincial newspapers and in particular the local court reports. I have read numerous cases of people refusing to give a sample and receiving driving bans.

Here's another example of a driving ban that may not have a specific piece of legislation to support it, taken from a court report - a person driving was stopped by a Garda at a routine check point and stolen property was found in the car. Amongst other penalties the judge decided that as the person used their driving licence in the commission of a criminal offence a driving ban was handed down.

seamus

Claw Hammer wrote: »

No giving a sample results in a four year ban if the refusal is in the station. In some cases a perswn refuses at the roadside and then gives a sample in the station. There is still a penalty for refusal to provide the roadside sample.

Feed Up wrote: »

It most certainly does carry a driving ban, and a fine.

Can we provide some references for this mandatory ban? Not that I don't believe you, but I couldn't find it myself.

Edit: Actually, I found it accidentally.

moleyv wrote: »

Does a garda need reasonable grounds to request a sample? Or anyone they want without reason?

The law has changed a bit in recent years, so I'm not 100% sure I'm correct. But my understanding is that if they randomly pull you over they need reasonable grounds to suspect you may be intoxicated.
At a checkpoint they do not, and likewise after an accident they are required to test you.

Feed Up wrote: »

Here's another example of a driving ban that may not have a specific piece of legislation to support it, taken from a court report - a person driving was stopped by a Garda at a routine check point and stolen property was found in the car. Amongst other penalties the judge decided that as the person used their driving licence in the commission of a criminal offence a driving ban was handed down.

Yep, that's a special kind of ban called an "ancillary" disqualification. Basically allows a judge to impose a driving ban on any offence which is even tenuously linked to driving.

Claw Hammer

seamus wrote: »

The law has changed a bit in recent years, so I'm not 100% sure I'm correct. But my understanding is that if they randomly pull you over they need reasonable grounds to suspect you may be intoxicated.
At a checkpoint they do not, and likewise after an accident they are required to test you.

If they suspect the commission they can pull a driver over. If they then suspect drinking they can request a sample. Funnily enough everybody they stop always has slurred speech, a high red colour and smells strongly of alcohol.

realdanbreen

kidneyfan wrote: »

What happens if you aren't drunk in any way and just point blank refuse a sample and refuse to get out of the car and refuse to accompany the guards?

Oh, I dunno, they will probably say goodnight so, sorry for bothering you. What do you think might happen?

Little CuChulainn

Isn't there a minimum disqualification of one year for failing to give a breath sample?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

kidneyfan

What am I allowed to do.
I don't want to have to put my lips on something that magaluf girl could have been blowing on

Valetta

kidneyfan wrote: »

What am I allowed to do.
I don't want to have to put my lips on something that magaluf girl could have been blowing on

Every breathalyser comes brand new and is taken out of its wrapper in front of you.

I think you can opt to go to the station and give a urine sample, but I've no idea why anyone would do this, other than someone with asthma or some other physical disability that would make it difficult to give the breath sample.

kidneyfan

Valetta wrote: »

Every breathalyser comes brand new and is taken out of its wrapper in front of you.

I've been breathalysed twice and I never saw the breathalyser removed in front of me.
Do I have the right to ensure that the Garda wears latex gloves?

sham58107

kidneyfan wrote: »

I've been breathalysed twice and I never saw the breathalyser removed in front of me.
Do I have the right to ensure that the Garda wears latex gloves?

So this is the 3rd time what happened the other 2 of course the small tube is wrapped if the same one was used everyone would fail!!

No you can not request latex gloves,maye ask Garda to warm it up for you.

How did you ever get a licence with attitude like that,just read rules of the road for god sake!!

uck51js9zml2yt

kidneyfan wrote: »

I've been breathalysed twice and I never saw the breathalyser removed in front of me.
Do I have the right to ensure that the Garda wears latex gloves?

Was stopped once at as CP. Opened in front of me and the mouthpiece wasn't handled.the taste stayed with me for days...:(

Valetta

kidneyfan wrote: »

I've been breathalysed twice and I never saw the breathalyser removed in front of me.
Do I have the right to ensure that the Garda wears latex gloves?

I would have thought so.

Anytime I've been done they've worn gloves.

It's a well established procedure that's been carried out for years. Drink driving is one of the most challenged laws in the court system, so you can be fairly sure that your health won't be compromised.

sjb25

kidneyfan wrote: »

I've been breathalysed twice and I never saw the breathalyser removed in front of me.
Do I have the right to ensure that the Garda wears latex gloves?

They let me keep the little plastic thing one night so yeah they change it everytime anytime iv had it done they opened it in front of me I was breath tested twice in one night before it's no big deal like if you have Notting to hide why bring hardship on yourself by refusing or trying to be awkward takes two min and you are on the way again instead of spending ages having a argument you won't win and may end up with a night in the cell over

L1011

Its extremely common for them to at least try give you the mouthpiece afterwards, mainly because I suspect they don't want a car full of them.

kidneyfan

seamus wrote: »

Basically allows a judge to impose a driving ban on any offence which is even tenuously linked to driving.

Absolutely disgusting for these periwigged penalty point dodgers to have that power. And of course you'd have the D student lying his head off in the witness box.

kidneyfan

I have asthma by the way (though the word asthma is a catchall defined by symptoms and response to treatment) could I use that to slow things down? Basically after the blatant political policing of the

marketty

kidneyfan wrote:

Absolutely disgusting for these periwigged penalty point dodgers to have that power.

I think it's actually a rare example of a bit of proactive thinking in the application of the law. Handy when the guards find johnny the scrote with 20 burglary convictions cruising round the back roads down the country where he has no business being, if he has a driving ban...

MarkAnthony

Valetta wrote: »

Every breathalyser comes brand new and is taken out of its wrapper in front of you.

That's what all the Magaluf girls tell you/do.

Valetta

MarkAnthony wrote: »

That's what all the Magaluf girls tell you/do.

We'll blow me. Never knew that.

endacl

kidneyfan wrote: »

So failing to comply with the guards request to blow into the thing is itself a crime. That's pretty clever.

It is indeed. It's a bullsh1t cleaver, if you will.

MarkAnthony

Valetta wrote: »

We'll blow me. Never knew that.

Yeah they'll... anyway.

MarkAnthony

kidneyfan wrote: »

I have asthma by the way (though the word asthma is a catchall defined by symptoms and response to treatment) could I use that to slow things down? Basically after the blatant political policing of the

Did you have an attack?

While I enjoy a bit of trolling I'm preculded from calling anyone out as such, not that I'm sugesting that's the case here.

If you've genuinely a reason you cant blow (you seem to be blowing pretty hard here) then by all means, take a guard off the road to take you back to the station, hang about and get a blood sample. With any luck it won't be your dog, girlfriend/boyfriend, relation or friend that is killed by a drunk driver.

You've every right and I actively encourage people to challenge over-bearing members of the AGS. Driving is a privilidge, however, not a right. Your rights to refuse a search etc are therefore curtailed.

Victor

Valetta wrote: »

I think you can opt to go to the station and give a urine sample, but I've no idea why anyone would do this, other than someone with asthma

They make people blow in a tube, not run up several flights of stairs carrying a box of books.

If someone is actively having and asthma attack, they shouldn't be driving.

Valetta

Victor wrote: »

They make people blow in a tube, not run up several flights of stairs carrying a box of books.

If someone is actively having and asthma attack, they shouldn't be driving.

People with breathing difficulties are just as entitled to drive as you or I.

It is quite a long "blow" that is required, hence the option of giving a urine or blood sample at the station.

MarkAnthony

Valetta wrote: »

People with breathing difficulties are just as entitled to drive as you or I.

It is quite a long "blow" that is required, hence the option of giving a urine or blood sample at the station.

No they're not, frankly. Just as older people aren't, or people with any list of medical conditions. They may become entitled to drive through the opinion of a doctor and the licensing authority but driving is a privilege, not a right.

L1011

I've asthma. I've never had trouble giving a breath sample

Had I actually been drinking any of the times, I might - which is why they'd take you to the station for a blood or urine sample then.

Uno my Uno.

The athsma line is frequently advanced when these matters come to court, it is rarely successful however.

teggers5

Oh for God's sake, get down off your high horse and just give a breath sample when asked. Why cause all this hassle for yourself and the guards if you have nothing to hide?
If you genuinely have a problem blowing into a (clean) tube for a couple of seconds explain your situation and offer to go to the nearest station to give a blood or urine sample.
I will never understand people turning such a simple situation into hardship for everyone!

Victor

teggers5 wrote: »

Oh for God's sake, get down off your high horse

I think drunk in charge of an animal is dealt with under older legislation, not the Road Traffic Acts. High horses would probably be some sort of animal welfare issue.