Mitsubishi Ex Electric Concept

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/10/mitsubishi-ex-concept-previews-design.html

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mitsubishi/93071/mitsubishi-ex-tokyo-concept-previews-new-all-electric-suv

Not sure I like the I3 style doors !

It's rather small looking too.

next Gen EV so probably 200 miles ? probably 40K Euro's.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure I like the I3 style doors !

It's rather small looking too.

next Gen EV so probably 200 miles ? probably 40K Euro's.

40k is a bit steep.

No mention of range, can't be good.

I don't think we will be seeing 200mile affordable EV in 2017, that would be a huge increase in a short time, even Tesla sound like they are struggling with it, not good

If Mitsubishi did release a 400bhp, 1000nm, 0- 60 3 sec, Evo XI with 200 mile range that would catch our attentions

Can't wait for that day

I'm really only speculating about the price.

Yes it would want the performance to justify it but with the advances in battery technology in the last few years 200 miles would easily be possible, they can have 300 miles if they want it's just the cost. And actually what they can fit in the chassis.

BoatMad

Yes it would want the performance to justify it but with the advances in battery technology in the last few years 200 miles would easily be possible, they can have 300 miles if they want it's just the cost. And actually what they can fit in the chassis.

unfortunately you are rather guilty of wishful thinking,

gains in Lithium technology are now incremental, with various cathode dopings being tried to tweak characteristics, playing off safety , energy density etc , for example Li NMC is less safe at the extremes then LiMN, but density is better. outright performance improvements while remaining within Li technology are limited. What we will see is some reduction in battery prices, but in reality the underlying battery component is not 100% or anywhere near it in an EV battery

we shall see improvements in packaging , thermal management, software and battery management, but very small incremental base technology improvement.

in the medium price market say < 30K euros, it will be very difficult to raise capacity significantly even with reductions in Li units pricing. This also ignores " market pricing " as car companies always want to charge more for giving more. This is clear in the premium that Nissan are charging for the battery upgrade in 2016, despite claimed technology improvements.


I think that within two model upgrades, possibly 2020 we will see a 200 mile ( realisable ) Leaf that remains priced appropriate to its size and brand class .

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

unfortunately you are rather guilty of wishful thinking,

gains in Lithium technology are now incremental, with various cathode dopings being tried to tweak characteristics, playing off safety , energy density etc , for example Li NMC is less safe at the extremes then LiMN, but density is better. outright performance improvements while remaining within Li technology are limited. What we will see is some reduction in battery prices, but in reality the underlying battery component is not 100% or anywhere near it in an EV battery

we shall see improvements in packaging , thermal management, software and battery management, but very small incremental base technology improvement.

in the medium price market say < 30K euros, it will be very difficult to raise capacity significantly even with reductions in Li units pricing. This also ignores " market pricing " as car companies always want to charge more for giving more. This is clear in the premium that Nissan are charging for the battery upgrade in 2016, despite claimed technology improvements.


I think that within two model upgrades, possibly 2020 we will see a 200 mile ( realisable ) Leaf that remains priced appropriate to its size and brand class .

Wishful thinking ?

You do know the GM Bolt will be released sometime in 2017 with 200 claimed miles range for 35K USD which which is around the cost of the current 30 Kwh leaf in the U.S.

It may be a limited production vehicle unfortunately for the initial release. But it's showing where the industry is heading.

I've no doubt the Leaf II will have a larger battery through better packaging and a better Chassis design, cost remains unknown but a 200 mile range leaf will be more than possible in 2018.

That's 321 Kms, but if we see this as advertised as Japanese cycle then that will be more like 250 Kms, I just hope they're aware that the U.S EPA rating is what counts in real life driving. Our own NEDC is even BS.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Wishful thinking ?

You do know the GM Bolt will be released sometime in 2017 with 200 claimed miles range for 35K USD which which is around the cost of the current 30 Kwh leaf in the U.S.

It may be a limited production vehicle unfortunately for the initial release. But it's showing where the industry is heading.

I've no doubt the Leaf II will have a larger battery through better packaging and a better Chassis design, cost remains unknown but a 200 mile range leaf will be more than possible in 2018.

That's 321 Kms, but if we see this as advertised as Japanese cycle then that will be more like 250 Kms, I just hope they're aware that the U.S EPA rating is what counts in real life driving. Our own NEDC is even BS.

lets set aside the nonsense that is current lab test for cars,

Note I said " realisable " range.

The industry is awash with " claims" of this and that range, the funny thing is when the car hits real life, we then discover the " real range"

I remain unconvinced that we will see 200mile " realisable " real world ranges in ,medium costs EV by 2018. The only way it can be done is by stuffing the car with batteries, which results in requiring active thermal management , larger vehicles and bigger motors.


its not a case of whats possible, its a case of what we will get in a car, most of that is a marketing decision , not technology


for example, I worked on anti-lock braking systems in the late 70s, its was fully developed and suitable for all cars by that time, it was a low cost addition to a car, yet it appeared in large upmarket saloons, until well in the 90s when it started to trickle into lower cost cars, thats marketing for you

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

lets set aside the nonsense that is current lab test for cars,

Note I said " realisable " range.

The industry is awash with " claims" of this and that range, the funny thing is when the car hits real life, we then discover the " real range"

I remain unconvinced that we will see 200mile " realisable " real world ranges in ,medium costs EV by 2018. The only way it can be done is by stuffing the car with batteries, which results in requiring active thermal management , larger vehicles and bigger motors.


its not a case of whats possible, its a case of what we will get in a car, most of that is a marketing decision , not technology


for example, I worked on anti-lock braking systems in the late 70s, its was fully developed and suitable for all cars by that time, it was a low cost addition to a car, yet it appeared in large upmarket saloons, until well in the 90s when it started to trickle into lower cost cars, thats marketing for you

200 miles is doable but it depends on how they package it and the cells , I do hope Leaf II has thermal management because fast charging times shouldn't have to increase in cold weather.

You'd need a minimum of 50-60 Kwh max for 200 miles, at a reasonable 3.5 miles/kwh efficiency, that's not slow driving. I would say it's doable but not at 30 K Euro's but is it any different from manufacturers claiming 70 mpg when you really only get 50 ? but you don't get 50 mpg because you drive too fast and/or hard.

Who knows what we will see in 2018.

It will be interesting to see the KWh capacity of the GM Bolt !

BoatMad

Who knows what we will see in 2018.

It will be interesting to see the KWh capacity of the GM Bolt !

It will in fact all tie in with LGs Li developments, in getting the costs under control , which is why Nissan are considering LG

we shall see , I remain skeptical

I do hope Leaf II has thermal management because fast charging times shouldn't have to increase in cold weather.

personally I think Nissan is right to avoid active sophisticated thermal management , its a costly option. as batteries get larger in capacity existing fast charging will be a lower proportion of C. so its will exert less impact on the thermal performance while charging

Only in sub zero should Li charge times have to rise , from zero up , cold weather improves fast charging as there is a lower ambient to begin with ( there are some efficiency issues as you trend towards zero degrees C of course )

The primary reason for heat gain in a Li cell is during the taper ( Constant voltage ) cycle especially as full charge approaches , excess energy trends to be then converted into heat and heat in a LI generates a positive thermal runaway problem.

The issue isn't fast charging , its fast stoping of fast charging

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

It will in fact all tie in with LGs Li developments, in getting the costs under control , which is why Nissan are considering LG

we shall see , I remain skeptical

I'm more skeptical of their claim that they'll be able to build the packs at $145/kWh. If they manage that it would have astounding implications for other markets.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

I'm more skeptical of their claim that they'll be able to build the packs at $145/kWh. If they manage that it would have astounding implications for other markets.

I think there more hype in Li markets then is written about taylor swift, and thats saying something