Travelling in 1st Class When Train is 2nd Class Only (mod warning post #2)

foggy_lad

The other evening I travelled from Limerick to Dublin on the train and got the train from Limerick to Limerick Junction to connect with the 18:20 service from Cork.

When I boarded the train from Cork it was particularly full as could be expected of a peak time Sunday evening student train. The train was a loco hauled Mk4 set with a 1st class carriage even though the timetable states that this is a 2nd/standard class only service.

I immediately made my way into the 1st class carriage and sat at the end of the carriage and settled in, but my journey was upset be an ignorant employee who doesn't know the company's own rules and conditions relating to travelling in a superior class of carriage that is not listed as part of that train.

I was told I would have to pay an extra €25 and that if I didn't I would have to leave the 1st class carriage. I refused to pay and stated to the employee that the rules state once a train is listed in the timetable as standard class anyone can then sit in any 1st class carriage that is open for passengers.

I showed a downloaded pdf of the timetable showing it stated clearly no 1st class at which point the guy told me he had charged several other people the surcharge and was going to have me removed from the train by the RPU staff in Thurles, then I asked him to show me a timetable where the 18:20 train was listed as having a 1st class carriage and he walked away.

The train stopped in Thurles and left there without incident and the person wearing the Irish rail top was still selling seat upgrades and moving students and those who wouldn't pay back to slum class:D

I then told a few students that they have the right to sit in the carriage as there was no 1st class on the train and the guy told them and me that I was going to be met at Heuston by the Gardai and RPU. I told him I was prepared to talk to anyone he wanted to have waiting for me as I was not in any rush.

At Heuston There was no sign of this guy when I got ready to leave the train so I got off the train. he was waiting further up the platform for 2 security guards walking down, he spoke to them(not in english) and they said something back to him and he turned and quickly walked off without another word. They then apologised to me for holding me up and ushered me on my way, They were very professional and well mannered in their dealing with the incident. I quickly explained to them why they had been called "to deal with me" and they seemed to understand about the whole 1st class issue and one said that the ticket guy walked away so quickly because he knew he was wrong!

The duty manager in the customer service office also agreed with me that anyone had the right to sit in the carriage marked as 1st class without paying any fee or surcharge.
how many people were overcharged by this guy and was he working off his own bat or had he been told to charge people by someone on Cork or his superiors?

monument

Posts deleted.

No warning after this: Any personal focus or other off-topic with find their posts deleted and infracted.

-- moderator

the_syco

foggy_lad wrote: »

how many people were overcharged by this guy and was he working off his own bat or had he been told to charge people by someone on Cork or his superiors?

If the carriage isn't marked as 1st class, and thus no extra money expected, where does he put the money to?

Jamie2k9

the_syco wrote: »

If the carriage isn't marked as 1st class, and thus no extra money expected, where does he put the money to?

Any revenue collected would be handled at the terminus station of the train.

foggy_lad - admit it you did it to be awakward and give IE a hard time

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Any revenue collected would be handled at the terminus station of the train.

foggy_lad - admit it you did it to be awakward and give IE a hard time

Yes I did refuse to move or pay a surcharge and was being awkward by that but was I right to stand my ground? The train had a 1st class carriage but was a standard class train so I had every right to sit in 1st class unless the whole carriage had been blocked off to all passengers.

As for giving IE a hard time, I have better things to be doing but felt that the staff member needed to learn that he can't sell 1st class tickets for a standard class train.

savagethegoat

you were right Foggy....don't listen to them

munchkin_utd

i cant find any Irish rail info on the matter, but rail users Ireland do say that what foggy did was correct
http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fare_evasion.php
(at the bottom)

LXFlyer

This is correct, except that the current timetable (effective 28 September) DOES show First Class on the 18:20 from Cork, which suggests to me that the OP owes the ticket checker an apology for his behaviour.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/01a_dublin-cork_direct_280915.pdf

speedbird834

lxflyer wrote: »

This is correct, except that the current timetable (effective 28 September) DOES show First Class on the 18:20 from Cork, which suggests to me that the OP owes the ticket checker an apology for his behaviour.

Except on Sundays when the incident occurred

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Any revenue collected would be handled at the terminus station of the train.

foggy_lad - admit it you did it to be awakward and give IE a hard time

He had a point this time, fair balls Foggy .

roverrules

Good for you, but where in the bye laws etc. does it say you can do this? Just in case I decide to try it myself

LXFlyer

roverrules wrote: »

Good for you, but where in the bye laws etc. does it say you can do this? Just in case I decide to try it myself

It says it in the conditions of carriage.

LXFlyer

speedbird834 wrote: »

Except on Sundays when the incident occurred

And how do you know it was on Sunday?

The OP said "the other evening" which makes it a bit hard to interpret.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

And how do you know it was on Sunday?

The OP said "the other evening" which makes it a bit hard to interpret.

From elsewhere it was last Sunday.

LXFlyer

Sorry - I missed that!!

munchkin_utd

lxflyer wrote: »

It says it in the conditions of carriage.

I cant find it mentioned specifically in the current version. Is this the right document ?
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/conditionsoftravel1.pdf

LXFlyer

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I cant find it mentioned specifically in the current version. Is this the right document ?
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/conditionsoftravel1.pdf

I thought it was there, but maybe not.

However the OP is correct - if First Class is not advertised in the public timetable then if a train carrying First Class accommodation is used on that service, the First Class coach is declassified.

That has always been the case on railways in these islands and the position has not changed.

The train host/checker should not have been charging people in this case.

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

And how do you know it was on Sunday?

The OP said "the other evening" which makes it a bit hard to interpret.

Apologies for not being clear that it was a Sunday evening train.

tabbey

No need for foggy lad to apologise, he stated quite explicitly - sunday evening student train.-
As far as the use of premier or first class seating on standard class services is concerned, this has always been part of the seating available to the standard class passenger.
In the late 1960s / early 70s, AEC railcars with first class seating were used extensively on standard class suburban services, the public were expected to use it, and were glad to do so.
On British Rail, first class Mark I coaches were used on second rank mainline services, with a sticker allowing second class passengers use them, when Mark II stock took over on top link services. These firsts would be rapidly back to first class use if the need arose. It was a joy for second class ticket holders like myself to use these coaches, a bonus which encouraged the use of the railway.

Hilly Bill

They had a first plus on the sligo train a good while ago but it was free seating as first plus wasn't supposed to be on it.