postgraduate with a view to secondary teaching

ActingDanClark

enquiry is on behalf of my daughter who is currently in a country where she can't access boards. she has a BA in english and classics from ucd and is keen to become a secondary teacher, teaching english.
With this in mind should she be looking at
1) Masters
2) postgraduate diploma in education
3) professional diploma in education

is (2) above "better" than (3) or vise versa?
does she need another subject if she wishes to become a teacher?
any advice/ guidance would be much appreciated as enrolment looms

spurious

Moved to Teaching and Lecturing.
Her subjects wouldn't be great. Please make sure she is fully aware of the abysmal chances for proper employment in teaching at the moment.

evolving_doors

If she's travelling back to study then its a 2yr Postgraduate Masters in Education (pme).
English on its own would be tough to get work... unless she's going abroad again.

ActingDanClark

spurious wrote: »

Moved to Teaching and Lecturing.
Her subjects wouldn't be great. Please make sure she is fully aware of the abysmal chances for proper employment in teaching at the moment.[/QUOTE
Thanks!- how would she go about adding a second useful subject at this stage before progressing to a masters?

ActingDanClark

Gebgbegb wrote: »

If she's travelling back to study then its a 2yr Postgraduate Masters in Education (pme).
English on its own would be tough to get work... unless she's going abroad again.

Thanks for that, your advice is appreciated.
Why the masters rather than the diploma in education? ( other than the masters being a better qualification would the diploma be recognised?
How would she best ' bolt on' another subject prior to ( or after) engaging in masters?
She's operating in TEFL at the mo and believes teaching is for her.

katydid

damian139 wrote: »

spurious wrote: »

Moved to Teaching and Lecturing.
Her subjects wouldn't be great. Please make sure she is fully aware of the abysmal chances for proper employment in teaching at the moment.[/QUOTE
Thanks!- how would she go about adding a second useful subject at this stage before progressing to a masters?

I don't know about the mechanics of adding on another subject. I did it many years ago by taking a subject to degree level in the evening, but there are more mechanisms now.

All I can say is that there's no point in even thinking about teaching without another subject. Nobody is going to employ her with just English. She could do ESL (English as a Second Language) here if she stays in one of the big cities, but it is generally in private colleges, and we know how volatile that sector is.

Not trying to be negative, but she needs to be prepared for a long haul. If she can add another subject while doing a qualification that allows her to teach, it will be at least a couple of years, then more than likely several years before (if) she finds anything more substantial than part time or subbing. It's important that she realises this, before making any life changing decisions.

Jamfa

damian139 wrote: »

enquiry is on behalf of my daughter who is currently in a country where she can't access boards. she has a BA in english and classics from ucd and is keen to become a secondary teacher, teaching english.
With this in mind should she be looking at
1) Masters
2) postgraduate diploma in education
3) professional diploma in education

is (2) above "better" than (3) or vise versa?
does she need another subject if she wishes to become a teacher?
any advice/ guidance would be much appreciated as enrolment looms

The Postgraduate Diploma & Prof Diploma in Education no longer exist and you now must complete a two year Professional Masters in Education.

gaiscioch

damian139 wrote: »

how would she go about adding a second useful subject at this stage before progressing to a masters?

For Teaching Council registration, she needs 60 ect [degree] credits. In a 3-year degree, they must be from 2nd and 3rd year. If doing an Arts subject the exit qualification she needs to research is the Higher Diploma in Arts.

She will also need an additional 10 ects from 1st year in that subject. She could get those by doing two 5-credit modules, or a 10-credit module, from 1st year along with the above 60 ects from 2nd & 3rd years.

joeharte123

The sad thing is she could come home and train for 2 years in the professional master of education and most likely to be left unemployed at the end of it.

The teaching council thought it would be a great idea to make the qualification a 2 years Masters programme - I'm not sure their belief was completely to make those qualifying with the PME 'more employable' than those with the PGDE/PDE/Hdip or simply to keep up the other teachers in Finland and other parts of Europe.
If their idea was to make it a repellent for those "half thinking" of becoming a secondary school teacher, it failed. There remains to be an increase in the amount of people qualifying from/entering into teacher training courses (PME). - Check it out with any of the teachers working in secondary schools!

For a job with a below mediocre wage, those that sit out for 10 years to be finally consider for a full time post deserve it for their patience! Sitting on temporary/uncertain work for the next 7-8 years does not appeal to many as it restricts getting a mortgage for a house. It makes it even harder while your peers who have trained in other sectors have secured a job with a very possibility of a substantial wage increase every year or so.

It's not the job it was in 1990s or even in the early 2000s. Even with the slashing of public wages post 2008 the demand continues to increase for those wishing to become a teacher.
These are just certain factors to take into account before thinking of entering a workforce which is already overflown with masters and multiple degree holders. Of course, there are always other avenues such as moving to the UK where job security can be made certain within 2 years. Moving to Dubai and make a shAte load of money tax free.
For those with their hearts set on it there are always options for them - maybe not here, but elsewhere.
Good luck!

katydid

joeharte123 wrote: »

The sad thing is she could come home and train for 2 years in the professional master of education and most likely to be left unemployed at the end of it.

The teaching council thought it would be a great idea to make the qualification a 2 years Masters programme - I'm not sure their belief was completely to make those qualifying with the PME 'more employable' than those with the PGDE/PDE/Hdip or simply to keep up the other teachers in Finland and other parts of Europe.
If their idea was to make it a repellent for those "half thinking" of becoming a secondary school teacher, it failed. There remains to be an increase in the amount of people qualifying from/entering into teacher training courses (PME). - Check it out with any of the teachers working in secondary schools!

For a job with a below mediocre wage, those that sit out for 10 years to be finally consider for a full time post deserve it for their patience! Sitting on temporary/uncertain work for the next 7-8 years does not appeal to many as it restricts getting a mortgage for a house. It makes it even harder while your peers who have trained in other sectors have secured a job with a very possibility of a substantial wage increase every year or so.

It's not the job it was in 1990s or even in the early 2000s. Even with the slashing of public wages post 2008 the demand continues to increase for those wishing to become a teacher.
These are just certain factors to take into account before thinking of entering a workforce which is already overflown with masters and multiple degree holders. Of course, there are always other avenues such as moving to the UK where job security can be made certain within 2 years. Moving to Dubai and make a shAte load of money tax free.
For those with their hearts set on it there are always options for them - maybe not here, but elsewhere.
Good luck!

I agree with most of your post, but "below mediocre wage" is surely a bit exaggerated? It's not the best paid professional job in the world, but it's not THAT bad.

joeharte123

katydid wrote: »

I agree with most of your post, but "below mediocre wage" is surely a bit exaggerated? It's not the best paid professional job in the world, but it's not THAT bad.

In comparison to others entering into 2 year graduate programmes coming out of college in different sectors, the wage is quite poor. I'm taking into consideration most that are lucky enough to be taken on will be on very low hour contracts, making their wage small.

Hypothetically, coming straight from college to a full time post the wage would be by no means something to look down on as you would be earning more than any of your accountant friends (for example) over the course of the first 2-3 years. - in this sense it would be exaggerated, yes.

But then again, who goes into teaching for the money?

katydid

joeharte123 wrote: »

In comparison to others entering into 2 year graduate programmes coming out of college in different sectors, the wage is quite poor. I'm taking into consideration most that are lucky enough to be taken on will be on very low hour contracts, making their wage small.

Hypothetically, coming straight from college to a full time post the wage would be by no means something to look down on as you would be earning more than any of your accountant friends (for example) over the course of the first 2-3 years. - in this sense it would be exaggerated, yes.

But then again, who goes into teaching for the money?

Indeed, in comparison to other professionals, it's not well paid, but not that bad either. It has never been in the top rank of salaries for graduates; as you said, you don't go into teaching for the money.

In comparison to many other jobs, however, it is well paid. It's all relative.

joeharte123

katydid wrote: »

Indeed, in comparison to other professionals, it's not well paid, but not that bad either. It has never been in the top rank of salaries for graduates; as you said, you don't go into teaching for the money.

In comparison to many other jobs, however, it is well paid. It's all relative.

If you can't see yourself do any other job, money shouldn't even be a factor.
The person serving the teacher behind the till in Lidl/Aldi is likely to be taking home a larger sum of money at the end of the week but maybe the teacher prefers his/her job more than running a shop.

Like anything else, is all about preference.

katydid

joeharte123 wrote: »

If you can't see yourself do any other job, money shouldn't even be a factor.
The person serving the teacher behind the till in Lidl/Aldi is likely to be taking home a larger sum of money at the end of the week but maybe the teacher prefers his/her job more than running a shop.

Like anything else, is all about preference.

You really think you earn more working in Lidl than teaching?? Full time teaching, now?

joeharte123

katydid wrote: »

You really think you earn more working in Lidl than teaching?? Full time teaching, now?

Not sure about Lidl but take an Aldi store for instance, where the starting wage is approximately 12 quid an hour. The average working week full time is 40 hours - not taking overtime into account. 12 x 40 is 480/ week. Which works out over 2000 per month taking into account unsociable pay.

Full time teaching does in fact pay more than this. Like I originally said, for those fresh out of college, if they're lucky enough to find a position in a school covering maternity leave, for example, yes the job in Aldi would pay more.

Just an example of how it is relative like you said.

katydid

joeharte123 wrote: »

Not sure about Lidl but take an Aldi store for instance, where the starting wage is approximately 12 quid an hour. The average working week full time is 40 hours - not taking overtime into account. 12 x 40 is 480/ week. Which works out over 2000 per month taking into account unsociable pay.

Full time teaching does in fact pay more than this. Like I originally said, for those fresh out of college, if they're lucky enough to find a position in a school covering maternity leave, for example, yes the job in Aldi would pay more.

Just an example of how it is relative like you said.

Well, compare like with like. Full time with full time, part time with part time...

But, as you said, it's not about the money. I knew that when I went into teaching; my father was a teacher, and we struggled (of course, in the early days, my mother didn't work, which was the norm). And of course you are just above the threshold for college grants etc.

But I couldn't see myself doing anything else. Never did. Except maybe a librarian...:cool:

History Queen

katydid wrote: »

You really think you earn more working in Lidl than teaching?? Full time teaching, now?

A friend works in aldi. She comes out with more money than me per month. I have a 22hour contract.

byhookorbycrook

And when the person in Aldi finishes at whatever time, there are no Croke Park hours, no copies to be corrected, no lessons plans and tests to do on their own time.

katydid

History Queen wrote: »

A friend works in aldi. She comes out with more money than me per month. I have a 22hour contract.

Does that include your deductions for superannuation, "spouses and children", and the famous pension levy? My superannuation deductions are massive.

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And when the person in Aldi finishes at whatever time, there are no Croke Park hours, no copies to be corrected, no lessons plans and tests to do on their own time.

, I was just thinking about that today, I take it for granted that I ' start work' at 9 most nights. I dont even think about the term 'bringing work home' as its just so common.

I wonder if we did do a 'proper' work to rule would students ever get any tests or homework corrected.

History Queen

katydid wrote: »

Does that include your deductions for superannuation, "spouses and children", and the famous pension levy? My superannuation deductions are massive.

That's her take home pay vs my take home pay which let's face it is the pay people care about.

Sorry edited to say i do take in to account that i have a voluntary deduction in each payslip in the form of union deduction but even if I didn't pay that her wages would still beat mine.

katydid

History Queen wrote: »

That's her take home pay vs my take home pay which let's face it is the pay people care about.

Sorry edited to say i do take in to account that i have a voluntary deduction in each payslip in the form of union deduction but even if I didn't pay that her wages would still beat mine.

But you're not counting your substantial pension contribution. That makes a very big difference in take home pay.

joeharte123

A manager/deputy manager position in any of their stores range from 40-60k per year which is another story, really.

Teaching is by no means an easy job either. The take home work (correcting tests, planning each class etc) will always remain part of the job throughout your career too. The best thing is you have to do it. It's part of the job.