Carrignadihioul? (Barry Lyndon)

volchitsa

Hi,
I've just been asked (as the resident Irish person here) what the place name Carrignadihioul in William Thackeray's Barry Lyndon means and whether such a place could/does exist (anywhere, not specifically where the story takes place)

My Irish is worse than rusty, so obviously I can see that "Carraig na" is plausible, but could "Dihioul" have a genuine Irish equivalent? I don't know of one, but then as I say, my Irish isn't up to much these days anyway.

Thanks for a rapid reply if possible!

Insect Overlord

Possibly Devil's Rock? "Carraig an Diabhail"

I'll keep thinking about it and see if I can come up with anything else!

volchitsa

What a great place this is, only 10 minutes' wait for an initial, and plausible, answer!

That's brilliant for starters, and if you (or anyone else) do have any other ideas, don't hesitate to let me know.

Thanks.

PS what would the genitive plural of diabhail be? Cos I'm thinking of the "na" being a plural. Though of course Thackeray being English probably wouldn't have been aware of that, and may have used na without knowing the difference.

Insect Overlord

volchitsa wrote: »

PS what would the genitive plural of diabhail be? Cos I'm thinking of the "na" being a plural. Though of course Thackeray being English probably wouldn't have been aware of that, and may have used na without knowing the difference.

This is what's throwing me as well. Carraig na nDiabhal would be Rock of the Devils.

"Na" is also used for feminine nouns in the Tuiseal Ginideach singular, so that's why I'm thinking it could still be something else.

Carraig na [something or other]

Rhedyn

It sounds like a corruption of Carrigtwohill / Carraig Thuathail,("Tuathal's rock).

Which is the tallest mountain in Ireland.

volchitsa

That's absolutely brilliant, thanks to both of you for that. That would also be very possible too, as Wikipedia tells me that the town of Carrigtwohill has a castle called Barryscourt which would fit with Thackeray's description of the family as having various places named for their ancestor in the area. And of course in either case, the fact that it would be a corruption that can't quite be made to make sense in Irish is unsurprising, given Thackeray's anti-Irish views in the book. I wouldn't imagine he spent a lot of time researching the name for authenticity, it probably just had to "sound" Irish.

Thanks again, to both of you.

MathsManiac

Rhedyn wrote: »

It sounds like a corruption of Carrigtwohill / Carraig Thuathail,("Tuathal's rock).

Which is the tallest mountain in Ireland.

Carrigtwohill is a town in Cork.

Corrán Tuathail (Carrauntoohil) is Ireland's highest mountain. (Corrán is a sickle.)

volchitsa

I actually looked it up on Wikipedia and saw that it was a town, and was named for a nearby rock, not a mountain, so there was no problem, that's what I told the person who asked me.

But I did wonder what the difference between a rock and a mountain was, seeing as this particular rock has lots of caves in it, ones that you can go right inside apparently - so a mountain-sized rock then? :shock:

(Also, I knew it couldn't be the highest mountain in Ireland because that's whatitsname, carrontoohill, not carrigtwohill! Which I see you got - and with the proper spelling as well. )

But thanks to all for the help.

MathsManiac

Carraig na Daoithiúil (Daoithiúla?) (Rock of the uncivilized people)
Carraig na Diachúil (Diachúla?) (Rock of the believers)

Rhedyn

MathsManiac wrote: »

Carrigtwohill is a town in Cork.

Corrán Tuathail (Carrauntoohil) is Ireland's highest mountain. (Corrán is a sickle.)

Opps ! Sorry.

volchitsa

No problem rhedyn, these little slips happen to the best of us. I blame my proof-reader. You just can't find the staff, these days, can you?