Legality of after hour alcohol raffle

EyeDeeOne

Hey guys,

I am doing up a college project, gotta make a business plan.
I have already put a decent bit of work into it, so i would prefer not to have to start again!!

Basically my plan is anyone 18+ can pay a small fee and join my club/organisation that results in after hour drink delivery service.

Im not sure which way to organise it.

Either club members can make a wish list of alcohol they would like which would cost X amount.
Then they can donate X amount to the club, and they get a raffle ticket, which has a very good chance of winning. First prize is your wish list delivered to your house.

What is the legality of raffling alcohol to private club members after hours?

I was also thinking i could do the same style wish list, but they pay X amount for a business card or something of minuscule value, and they get alcohol for free.

Is it illegal to sell alcohol after hours, but okay to give it away free?

Would anyone be able to point me in the direction of the legislation I should be looking at. Need to have it concrete that it can be done legally or I will have to start over with a new business!

Thank you very much in advance

Peregrinus

Even leaving the raffle aside, I think your business is going to need a licence.

My first thought was a simple courier business, under which the customer buys grog from a off-licence and, for an extra charge, you collect it from the off-licence and deliver it to the customer. But no, this is an after-hours service, so by the time people place the order the off-licence is already closed. They are buying from you. You need a licence to sell alcohol.

I'd go for an after-hours condom deliver service instead. No licence required, and when you need a condom it's not always convenient to put your trousers back on and go out looking for one.

EyeDeeOne

Peregrinus wrote: »

Even leaving the raffle aside, I think your business is going to need a licence.
.....
this is an after-hours service, so by the time people place the order the off-licence is already closed. They are buying from you. You need a licence to sell alcohol.

Cheers.

Eh I am completely happy with using loopholes to present the business plan.

Raffle aside the business would need a license.......do you mean a license to sell alcohol?

And if someone buys alcohol off me after hours sound Yeh I'll need a license.

But I want to sell a raffle ticket or an expensive business card of mine or accept donations.
Any alcohol provided is free of charge.
Does that not exempt it from needing a license?

Money would be paid or donated by credit card to the club or business.
Then another club member will drive over in their free time and give said person X alcohol.

If it is phrased right shouldn't this work?

munchkin_utd

heres info on what licences are needed for a raffle
http://www.ictr.ie/files/Raffles%20and%20Lotteries%20Good%20Practice_web.pdf

Bogger77

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'd go for an after-hours condom deliver service instead. No licence required, and when you need a condom it's not always convenient to put your trousers back on and go out looking for one.

Hope they'd put on trousers to answer the door, at least, and would they wait the 30-40mins for the OP's service to get to them?

EyeDeeOne

munchkin_utd wrote: »

heres info on what licences are needed for a raffle
http://www.ictr.ie/files/Raffles%20and%20Lotteries%20Good%20Practice_web.pdf

Aye I read this one which made me confident about a small private raffle set up.
Have that text saved.
Looking for legislation in relation to it.

I know of raves set up where you pay at the door then your a member. You can buy tokens Inside the door. Then another area of the building you can exchange tokens for drink.
And they are open like midnight to 6am.

Peregrinus

EyeDeeOne wrote: »

Cheers.

Eh I am completely happy with using loopholes to present the business plan . . .

I want to sell a raffle ticket or an expensive business card of mine or accept donations.
Any alcohol provided is free of charge.
Does that not exempt it from needing a license?

. . . If it is phrased right shouldn't this work?

No.

You're not the first to think of wheezes like this. The excise people have been on top of such wheezes since (at least) the eighteenth century. Renting out glasses and filling them for free, charging people for sitting space and then supplying drink for free, selling apples and supplying a free glass of beer with every apple - they've all been tried. And they've all failed. If you are supplying alcohol, and any money is changing hands, even if not nominally for the supply of alcohol, they'll get you.

Losty Dublin

As the Licence Laws stand alcohol can be sold for off premises consumption before 10PM and no later. From the way home delivery's services are going, none of them are delivering alcohol after 10PM which seems to suggest that the 10PM curfew actually covers the timings of when delivered orders arrive, even when they are ordered before 10PM. Also, drink can't be sold or consumed on premises outside of licenced hours of the respective premise on the respective days.

Members clubs are not exempt from such laws and require licences as well. Where they differ from pubs is that members may be on the premises outside of licensing hours. However a members club needs to have a members list and a club licence for such a relaxation to be imposed as it will apply only to members and staffs alone and not to non members. Raves of old who were pulling the buy a ticket here and a token there and a drink elsewhere stunts are fooling nobody except the attendees.

In relation to your raffle it will be most likely refused permission from your local garda station as it's not a raffle in the real sense of the word. As a side note, alcohol that's won at a raffle or other prize can't be consumed on premises, inside or outside of hours. A free pint may sneak it but that's the height of it.

Pro Hoc Vice

EyeDeeOne wrote: »

Hey guys,

I am doing up a college project, gotta make a business plan.
I have already put a decent bit of work into it, so i would prefer not to have to start again!!

Basically my plan is anyone 18+ can pay a small fee and join my club/organisation that results in after hour drink delivery service.

Im not sure which way to organise it.

Either club members can make a wish list of alcohol they would like which would cost X amount.
Then they can donate X amount to the club, and they get a raffle ticket, which has a very good chance of winning. First prize is your wish list delivered to your house.

What is the legality of raffling alcohol to private club members after hours?

I was also thinking i could do the same style wish list, but they pay X amount for a business card or something of minuscule value, and they get alcohol for free.

Is it illegal to sell alcohol after hours, but okay to give it away free?

Would anyone be able to point me in the direction of the legislation I should be looking at. Need to have it concrete that it can be done legally or I will have to start over with a new business!

Thank you very much in advance

The laws cover the sale or Supply of alcohol, once drink is involved then licensing laws apply. In simple terms if someone is supplying alcohol after hours then the law is been broken unless the person has a exemption or is an early house.

MarkAnthony

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'd go for an after-hours condom deliver service instead. No licence required, and when you need a condom it's not always convenient to put your trousers back on and go out looking for one.

Ahhh that takes me back to my (first) student days of insixty.com which would deliver pretty much anything in 60 minutes in Edinburgh, including on one occation, out of date Johnnies. High as a kite the complaint to some poor bastard at 3 in the morning probably didn't make a whole (snigger) lot of sense.

MarkAnthony

Bogger77 wrote: »

Hope they'd put on trousers to answer the door, at least, and would they wait the 30-40mins for the OP's service to get to them?

What a screenname to have to explain the concept of foreplay too! :pac:

This thread is epic.

Peregrinus

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Ahhh that takes me back to my (first) student days of insixty.com which would deliver pretty much anything in 60 minutes in Edinburgh, including on one occation, out of date Johnnies. High as a kite the complaint to some poor bastard at 3 in the morning probably didn't make a whole (snigger) lot of sense.

I'm sure EyeDeeOne's service would be of premium quality, and would deliver only only the freshest of fresh prophylactics.

EyeDeeOne

I am after reading enough of Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 (and skimming through them from 1850-19xx) and all i see is ruled regarding the "sale of alcohol".

I do not plan to sell any alcohol.

I am going to sell raffle tickets.

I assume during the day, this wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Could someone point me towards some legislation that suggests this is illegal.

(sale of raffle tickets to a private members only club, and a club member driving over a prize to the winner)

Thanks again



Had another look before i posted, and found 2008 amendments
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/act/17/section/16/enacted/en/html

This is the only thing i see that could effect me, but it refers to a "person" or a "licensee".
A private club does not fall under either of those definitions? right?
Thanks

EyeDeeOne

BOLLOX,
i kept reading


(7) This section shall also apply in relation to a club registered under the Registration of Clubs Acts 1904 to 2008 as if references in this section to a licensee were references to the secretary of such a club and with any other necessary modifications.

Greenmachine

So how does the wish list work? Say one fella wants a slab of cider, what's to stop the next fella from asking for a cask of whiskey. Are you planning on having a club/society around 1 raffle.
What is the agenda of club/society? Is it to make money? The idea of sitting around of after a night on the beer, waiting to see if a car turns up with more is frankly bizarre. Either, know my limits, or buy what I need in advance.

EyeDeeOne

Greenmachine wrote: »

So how does the wish list work? Say one fella wants a slab of cider, what's to stop the next fella from asking for a cask of whiskey. Are you planning on having a club/society around 1 raffle.
What is the agenda of club/society? Is it to make money? The idea of sitting around of after a night on the beer, waiting to see if a car turns up with more is frankly bizarre. Either, know my limits, or buy what I need in advance.

Eh could work in a few ways. Either 50e raffle ticket and if you win you could get A/spirit,mixer,fewcans B/loadsa wine,cider or c/spirit,mixer,wine
and 75e raffle ticket has other options..
And when you win you can pick your prize A/B/C.

Or literally make a wish list, then buy raffle tickets @ 5e each...
your wish list is 50e buy 10xraffle tickets..

And there can be multiple raffles every night, and your the only one in the draw.

Agenda of the club is like minded alcoholics / buzzers, bonus is making money

Greenmachine wrote: »

The idea of sitting around of after a night on the beer, waiting to see if a car turns up with more is frankly bizarre.

hahah
it isnt that bizzarre at all XD i know for a fact the club would be minted if i didnt find the law on it..
i was just going to do it for a college project.
I know people that sell drink after hours and they could make a weeks wages in a night XD

Greenmachine

EyeDeeOne wrote: »

Eh could work in a few ways. Either 50e raffle ticket and if you win you could get A/spirit,mixer,fewcans B/loadsa wine,cider or c/spirit,mixer,wine
and 75e raffle ticket has other options..
And when you win you can pick your prize A/B/C.

Or literally make a wish list, then buy raffle tickets @ 5e each...
your wish list is 50e buy 10xraffle tickets..

And there can be multiple raffles every night, and your the only one in the draw.

Agenda of the club is like minded alcoholics / buzzers, bonus is making money


hahah
it isnt that bizzarre at all XD i know for a fact the club would be minted if i didnt find the law on it..
i was just going to do it for a college project.
I know people that sell drink after hours and they could make a weeks wages in a night XD

Aren't clubs and society suposed to be geared towards a social or shared interest. You could very well have the very first Alcoraffle society, I just don't see you getting it past your Student Union.

EyeDeeOne

haha,
i wasnt thinking of a college club or society,

just a normal club, of people geared towards keeping the party going.. :)

ahaha wouldnt be much fun filling out the forms for the college on that one!

Peregrinus

EyeDeeOne wrote: »

Eh could work in a few ways. Either 50e raffle ticket and if you win you could get A/spirit,mixer,fewcans B/loadsa wine,cider or c/spirit,mixer,wine
and 75e raffle ticket has other options..
And when you win you can pick your prize A/B/C.

Or literally make a wish list, then buy raffle tickets @ 5e each...
your wish list is 50e buy 10xraffle tickets..

And there can be multiple raffles every night, and your the only one in the draw . . .

That's not actually a raffle, though, is it?

Do you expect that, when this ends up in court, the court will treat this as a raffle simply because you use the word "raffle" when you talk about it? it doesn't work like that.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Ive been in a major nightclub that did this system on Good Friday once.

No one died and good time had by all.

Peregrinus

Bodhi Thoughtless Turquoise wrote: »

Ive been in a major nightclub that did this system on Good Friday once.

Significant, that.