Complaints about me - how much should I know?

LegacyUser

I manage a medium sized team and they're a challenging bunch shall we say. I've had informal meetings with a couple of them regarding problems with their conduct - nothing they can't recover from but bad enough that I had to have the difficult conversations with them.

Both went straight to senior management independently and lodged complaints about me. I had anticipated this might happen as my team aren't the kind who like to be told they're out of line with their conduct. I have no issue with the complaints being investigated to the fullest extent necessary as I believe them to be baseless and to have been lodged in retaliation for my discussing their poor conduct with them.

My question is though, how much should I be told about what's in the complaints, if anything? I know the complaints are there as I was told informally by one of my bosses. Our team handbook is a bit of a nightmare to navigate and doesn't cover this part of the complaints process.

_Brian

I'd expect if the management team is functioning properly you'll be told the full extent in an off the record manner.

Personally if senior managment weren't on the same page I'd be thinking they're weak.

I've been in management for a long time in different companies and have always been kept in the loop about rubbish like this. They should he able to differentiate between genuine complaints and nuisance retaliation from employees.

uck51js9zml2yt

One thing I learnt in meeting with staff was for both sides to have a witness to the conversation and for notes to be taken which were then signed by both parties.

Mr.Carter

kcreasy wrote: »

I manage a medium sized team and they're a challenging bunch shall we say. I've had informal meetings with a couple of them regarding problems with their conduct - nothing they can't recover from but bad enough that I had to have the difficult conversations with them.

Both went straight to senior management independently and lodged complaints about me. I had anticipated this might happen as my team aren't the kind who like to be told they're out of line with their conduct. I have no issue with the complaints being investigated to the fullest extent necessary as I believe them to be baseless and to have been lodged in retaliation for my discussing their poor conduct with them.

My question is though, how much should I be told about what's in the complaints, if anything? I know the complaints are there as I was told informally by one of my bosses. Our team handbook is a bit of a nightmare to navigate and doesn't cover this part of the complaints process.

Are you micro-managing too much...after all they are adults. If they cross the line use the company grievance procedures.

Are you younger than some of them?
Have you had any management training?

Mr.Carter

_Brian wrote: »

rubbish like this. They should he able to differentiate between genuine complaints and nuisance retaliation from employees.

Remember we're only getting one side here.

granturismo

Mr.Carter wrote: »

Remember we're only getting one side here.

That's the nature of an internet forum and irrelevant to the OP's query;

kcreasy wrote: »

...My question is though, how much should I be told about what's in the complaints, if anything? ...

AnitaMcCluskey

Has the complaint been recorded in writing? You are entitled to see the complaint and any notes / minutes from meeting that have occurred.

If the organisation do not comply, you can make an official request quoting the Data Protection Act for which they have 40 days to comply. You may have to pay a €6.35 fee for administration to the organisation

If you are looking for further information, just check with the Data Protection Commissioners or from Citizen Information

Mr.Carter

granturismo wrote: »

That's the nature of an internet forum and irrelevant to the OP's query;

You're not mod....granturismo
This person mustn't be very sure of themselves if they are coming to boards.ie to look for info....imo= poor manager

Mrs OBumble

Mr.Carter wrote: »

Are you micro-managing too much...after all they are adults. If they cross the line use the company grievance procedures.

Some adults are little more than big children.

I usually find that when people are complaining about their managers "micro-managing", it's because the employees aren't up to the job, or don't want to do it properly.

OP, you should be getting coaching from your own manager in how to manage people. Also, before you have any interaction that may result in a complaint, make sure that your own manager is aware and is prepared to support you. If they're not, you need to find a way to make the consequences their problem instead of yours.

Mr.Carter

I have to disagree with Ms O'Bumble, many managers in medium to small companies have absolutely no training for their role.
Most are bumped up from the general employee pool either by someone leaving or retiring.
They then try to show that they are a manager to be feared and respected, by getting too involved in everyday minor issues that the employee could handle all by themselves already...
....Managers who generally have issues like this (challenges to their authority or no respect from employees) have caused the problem themselves.

LegacyUser

Mr.Carter wrote: »

This person mustn't be very sure of themselves if they are coming to boards.ie to look for info....imo= poor manager

Thanks for the balanced response. I'm just fine in terms of 'being sure of myself' it was the procedural side I was curious about.

In response to your other statements, the grievance procedure is there to be used after informal channels have been exhausted or if the poor conduct is so serious that it warrants initiating the formal process. So where I said I had 'informal' chats with the guys, it was because their conduct is at a point where it's a problem, but not so bad that it can't be overcome if corrected. That's what managers do - they manage.

Rest assured I'm both experienced and formally trained, and do my best to not be the kind of manager you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about. Lastly as I said, I have no problem with this being investigated to the moon and back. Procedurally I was curious as to how much I should know about the complaint as it affects the line management relationship I have with those staff.

@Mrs OBumble thanks for the advice - I had pre-warned my boss that I was about to have the sit downs

MarkAnthony

OP depending on how far they go you should be given the opportunity to cross examine the complaining party. Let it play out, if senior management are on the same page I expect it will go away. If they're not you need to go away :pac:

If it goes the formal route you may have to respond in kind.

MarkAnthony

Mr.Carter wrote: »

....Managers who generally have issues like this (challenges to their authority or no respect from employees) have caused the problem themselves.

Or it's been caused by a string of managers before hand not properly managing the team. A new manager comes in and does things by the book and the toys go out of the pram. For every poor manager there are 3 malcontents that should be shown the door.

I'm all for the elimination of work place assholes, to suggests they're only in management is, I'm sure you'll agree, patently ridiculous.

Mr.Carter

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm all for the elimination of work place assholes, to suggests they're only in management

That's your take....imho they generally gravitate towards management positions.

MarkAnthony

Mr.Carter wrote: »

That's your take....imho they generally gravitate towards management positions.

That's a shame. It does happen and means you've worked in some pretty poorly managed industries or companies. The odd eejit is a mistake, they happen, at every level. A general rule of thumb means you've a systemic issue.

uck51js9zml2yt

Mr.Carter wrote: »

That's your take....imho they generally gravitate towards management positions.

The biggest muppets I dealt with were the shop stewards. Had one guy block an increase that the company wanted to give and was agreed with his union.
When I called his bluff and paid those who wanted it he came into me with his tail between his legs.

Granted, I've had Muppet managers as well. They're found every where and aren't confined tp one demographic

Mr.Carter

MarkAnthony wrote: »

That's a shame. It does happen and means you've worked in some pretty poorly managed industries or companies. The odd eejit is a mistake, they happen, at every level. A general rule of thumb means you've a systemic issue.

Here are my past managers
1. Company owner. No manager skills, lost numerous jobs due to his manners.
2. Company owner, was so interested in lining his own pocket he screwed everyone. I had the last laugh when he asked me to help him get in with another company I worked for...
3. Company owner, promoted family and friends to management.....lost millions due to bad management.
4. Manager, promoted by back stabbing others. No training...he left when he was caught stealing.
5. Manager, promoted from current staff, proceeded to manage by overloading workers and causing some of the best we had to leave.
6. Current manager, promoted from current staff..was the least productive, work shy, excel sheet producer for reasons not to do their work. Numerous clients refused to deal with this person, they were passed on to me...their first question was.."Did that prick get fired yet?

All were Irish. Companies were Irish.

On another note I've had a couple (not a lot) of very good managers.

I personally didn't get into any tangles with said managers...just seen them in action.

Mr.Carter

Clark Wonderful Flamingo wrote: »

The biggest muppets I dealt with were the shop stewards

To be fair, most are clueless and never wanted the S.S. job.
It's the full time Union official that's usually the culprit driving the S.S.

Stheno

Mod: enough of the lazy generalisations about managers and shop stewards, get back on topic.

Mr.Carter

Well the op has disappeared so we have nothing else to go on!

Ah sure...I'm positive the info here will help someone somewhere.