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ATH Semi-final #2 BeakerJoe vs TheBostonCrab

  • 01-10-2015 2:04pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Its the 2nd of our Semi Finals and it's the man who is running the show this year against The man nay Crab (from Boston) who is looking to block his road to the final.

    ThebostonCrab defeated the man from the wire (Cheese Wagstaff) and WinnieThePoo to reach this point while the Beakerman bested HashTagHeel and the man who knocked him out last year GerryBBadd in his previous rounds.

    You know the drill by now fellas, heres the question
    Semi Final Question #2: ATH is going green!


    Throughout the years the WWF/E have packaged wrestlers with o so many different gimmicks, some they have even used on numerous different wrestlers. That is what I am asking you to do, recycle a gimmick!

    choose a Gimmick we have seen before and give it to someone either debuting or re-debuting on the WWE main roster and explain how you would use them in the given role.

    So this can be someone already on the roster, someone being promoted from NXT or someone from the indies, it can literally be anyone wrestling today you just have to fit them with a recycled gimmick of your choice and explain how you'd use them / how that gimmick would benefit them.

    After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?

    g'luck folks

    Whose answer is good enough to make them a finalist? 4 votes

    TheBostonCrab
    0% 0 votes
    BeakerJoe
    100% 4 votes


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Firstly, what a great question supplied by Bounty Hunter, one that has really given me a ridiculous choice in what my answer could be. There have been many fantastic gimmicks over the years and many talent wrestlers who could make a gimmick work or in need of a gimmick to jump start their career.
    Now I’ve had a think about this answer and in preparation I’ve mixed and matched dozens of wrestlers with a vast array of gimmicks. But I’ve settled on my wrestler and my gimmick and I present to you my answer.
    The Gimmick

    When having to recycle a gimmick, in my head I thought it had to have been a successful gimmick and one that had the capability of producing the next big star in WWE. When I think of The Rock, Stone Cold or Shawn Michaels, even though they had gimmicks, it was their own personality amped up to a high level that ultimately got them over and it would be hard to replicate their stardom in such fashion. But there is one gimmick that, in my opinion, that can be strapped onto a hot young star and eventually propel him to the upper echelon of WWE.
    That gimmick is: The Undefeated Steak Gimmick

    goldbergbio.jpg

    It worked for in the past for Big Bill Goldberg and made gradually made him one of the hottest properties in wrestling at the time. Its not rockets science, it’s a quite easy gimmick to give a rising star. Pick a suitable candidate, a wrestler who visually looks strong, big and destructive and hype him up in the weeks prior to his main roster debut as an unstoppable force.

    But lets be honest, picking this superstar has to be key, it has to be someone who you reckon can actually be a top superstar for years to come. The guy basically must fit the build as the next big thing in order to become the next big thing. He must be visually impressive, he has to have the superstar look and look unbeatable.

    Oh and he must be able to wrestle capable of delivering in the ring too of course.

    Bill Goldberg fitted that build almost perfectly. He had a presence about him that made him believable in this role. He came, kicked ass and left and as the weeks went one he looked better as each show past and he was booked to look like a star. This gimmick took Goldberg from a nobody to the next big star within months. He wasn’t rushed; he was booked to be strong and protected more and more as the months lead up to his eventual climax of him winning the big one.

    But who has WWE got on their books that can carry off this gimmick?
    Well they need someone who is believable in the role, as much as I would love to see Heath Slater or Fandango in the role; sadly they wouldn’t fit the mould.

    The man needs to be strong, powerful, have that big guy look and above all else the WWE universe would have to get behind him. I could look in NXT or the indies, but WWE already have a guy on the Main Roster who is, in my eyes, capable of being the next big star.

    Who better than ...

    CESARO!

    Cesaro-Babyface1.png
    This is a guy who in my eyes has all the tools to succeed but for some reason hasn’t. He ticks all the boxes needed to carry of this gimmick and if he was pushed in the right way, he could easily be as big of a star as Goldberg was for WCW.

    So, how do you accomplish this?

    maxresdefault.jpg


    Well, I’d start with a kayfabe injury to start. Have Cesaro feed to Brock in the lead up to HITC or even his Royal Rumble match. Cesaro can battle valiantly against Brock but eventually he is hit with a one german too many and the ref calls for a stoppage and throws up the X sign. Cesaro can try hobble back up but is unable to carry on and the referees eventually help him out. This makes Brock look strong and losing to Brock is such a manner won’t hurt Cesaro in the long term, after all it is Brock.

    It can be revealed that Cesaro suffered a neck injury and will be out until after Wrestlemania.

    After Wrestlemania 32, vignettes can begin to play for the reintroduction of Cesaro. They can play play up his recovery and drive the point home that he has a newly found determination and a new never say die attitude. Ceasro re-debuts on Raw the night after the Extreme Rules PPV with new music and proceeds to beat a local jobber in quick and impressive fashion.

    These jobber matches continue each week, with Cesaro beating nameless jobber after nameless Jobber until he’s faces Adam Rose on the Payback PPV and squashes him in 30 seconds.

    From here he beats lower card workers in squash matches on each Raw for the next few weeks, from Fandango to Heath Slater, beating each man in quick and impressive fashion until he squashes The Miz at the Money in the Bank PPV in quick fashion after a short feud. Its around now that the commentators acknowledge the fact that Cesaro is still unbeaten and ponder who can beat the Swiss Super Man.

    Cesaro eventually gets tougher competition in the form of Kevin Owens, Sheamus, Rusev,Randy Orton, Bray Wyatt and Dolph Ziggler over the next few months, with each man declaring they will beat the streak. Cesaro will do what Cesaro is capable of, and has fantastic matches with all the guys involved and remains unbeaten at the end of each feud and his star power rises with each dramatic victory. The fans are truly behind him.

    Before a match at Survivor Series, Brock is scheduled for a title match (which he wins) and he and Cesaro come face to face backstage before hand with nether man backing down, with Cesaro declaring hes coming for Brock.
    Royal rumble time comes around and Cesaro is in their with John Cena, Seth Rollins and other notable potential winners and outlasts them all and dumps Cena out last to win.

    Cena and Cesaro battle at Fast Lane with the spot in the main event at WM 33 on the line AND Ceasro just about wins. He goes on to feud with Brock and faces him at WM33 and wins the big one.
    cesaro-wwe-champ-1402764708.jpg

    In summary its a simple gimmick, but one that with the right man and the right build, could be hugely beneficial for the next big star and WWE as a hole. WWE are struggling to do anything meaningful with a hot property like Cesaro and this would not only solve this problem, but it would be the right gimmick to push the Swiss Super Man to the top, where he belongs!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭thebostoncrab


    "I'm not telling you something you don't already know."".

    I still maintain that the Devils Avcocate gimmick that Sean O'Haire was given was one of the biggest opportunities to be wasted in wrestling history. Here was something fresh, that we have never seen before and was destined to lead to great things. Here was a man telling everyone to steal, to cheat, to not pay their taxes, to indulge yourself. Hey, what he said wasn't popular, but he was only saying what was going on in your minds really.

    The gimmick is perfect for today's day and edge, and deserves to be given a chance. Here you have the chance to build to something special and to debut someone with the gimmick, making it their own. So I have looked to nXt to find the person best suited for this, and although I'm sure some of you will be unaware of the man, Id give the gimmick to Soloman Crowe.

    Soloman has the look that goes with someone that will encourage you to indulge in your vices. He could easily brainwash people into breaking the rules, but only for it to better himself. Due to his appearance and harsh voice, I'd have him almost resemble Tom Waits, who always looked and sounded like someone who would make you believe was the Devil in disguise at a cross roads. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting something supernatural behind the character, but instead you have a heel that is wicked and manipulative, that will have fans know they shouldn't cheer him, and resist cheering him, but find themselves agreeing with what he is saying.

    Crowe has enough charisma to pull this off, and to make it simply his own gimmick and make him stand out instantly the second he reaches the main roster. Plus his wrestling style is tough and rough, which is tailor made for a heel gimmick. The stars would allign for something special, the likes of which we wouldn't have seen before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    I still maintain that the Devils Avcocate gimmick that Sean O'Haire was given was one of the biggest opportunities to be wasted in wrestling history. Here was something fresh, that we have never seen before and was destined to lead to great things.

    While I was a fan of Sean O'Haires super cool vignettes and I was interested to see where it went, I think it’s extremely wishful thinking to say it was destined for great things. It was an intriguing to see where this gimmick may have lead to but to assume it was a sure thing is very presumptuous, especially considering Sean O’Haire was badly mishandled when he eventually arrived. This gimmick was a great idea but WWE had no clue as to how to execute it beyond its promo videos.


    The gimmick is perfect for today's day and edge, and deserves to be given a chance. Here you have the chance to build to something special and to debut someone with the gimmick, making it their own. So I have looked to nXt to find the person best suited for this, and although I'm sure some of you will be unaware of the man, Id give the gimmick to Soloman Crowe.

    Firstly I’m very aware of Solomon Crowe and I don’t think he’s the worst guy as he’s badly in need of direction. I can imagine him doing similar vignettes and having a similar yet perhaps smaller presence to Sean O’Haire, considering he kind of looks like a mini me of the former Devils Advocate. I have no problems in trying to give this guy a chance considering he’s currently lost in the NXT shuffle with no real character after a few failed ideas. That being said, he’s no time draw act no matter how hard he’s pushed and while he’s capable of holding his own in the ring, he might emulate the success of someone like Rhyno at best rather than be the next star.

    With my idea I play to take a guy with an already big following and all the tools necessary to be a big star and push him to a moon using a tried a tested method for making someone a star with the undefeated gimmick. You will re hash a gimmick that never got off the ground to a guy whos galss ceiling is mid-card at best.

    Soloman has the look that goes with someone that will encourage you to indulge in your vices.
    Right now he has the look of a man who doesn’t know what he wants to be. Granted he has a haircut somewhat similar to Sean's old cut, his personality is more of an erratic and unstable ball of energy rather than a cool, calm and collected purveyor of vices. Its a stretch at best.
    crowe-solomon-image.jpg

    .
    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting something supernatural behind the character, but instead you have a heel that is wicked and manipulative, that will have fans know they shouldn't cheer him, and resist cheering him, but find themselves agreeing with what he is saying.

    The fans didnt know what to make of Sean O'Haire back in the day, and while fans may have enjoyed the vignettes, I believe it will be a hard task figuring out how to execute the gimmick as you move past the inital vignettes. What would you suggest? I feel the gimmick is a great idea but I fear it would ultimately fall flat on WWE audiences when the dust settles and Crowe would have an uphill task connecting with the live audience with his limitations.
    Crowe has enough charisma to pull this off, and to make it simply his own gimmick and make him stand out instantly the second he reaches the main roster.

    While I believe Crowe has charsima, hes probably too intense a character to suit such a gimmick. And while the initial vignettes may tell a nice story, I think after his debut it would be a tough job intergrating the character in a wrestling ring. I feel the character is all style and no real substance and I feel it would fall into the same problems O'Haire did many years ago.

    Plus his wrestling style is tough and rough, which is tailor made for a heel gimmick. The stars would allign for something special, the likes of which we wouldn't have seen before.

    While I feel Crowe is more naturally a heel, the gimmick would hinder him and he’s not all that special to begin with. The stars would have to align for this to work and a miracle would be needed for this act to gain speed outside of the initial promos and while its an interesting idea and the vignettes are fondly remembered, the gimmick would ultimately be a dud in the long term.

    What would your plan be with his debut and how would the character progress in the wrestling world and connect to the audience? What angles would play out? While you’ve told a nice plan about which gimmick and which man would play the gimmick, I find the plan ends there and theres no real thought by yourself in what the character does after his initial O’Haire esque promos. It sounds more of a re-hash rather than a recycle.

    My plan is simple, reliable and has all the potential to be a success. Cesaro is perfect for the role of Goldberg-like destroyer and it would push a man who is heavily liked by all in wrestling while using a reliable gimmick to propel him to the stars. While yours is sadly a pipe dream with no real thought or long term potential with a man who sadly far from the next big thing. .


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bounty Hunter


    Can't wait forever so.. *bump poll added*

    if TBC resurfaces he can still counter Beakers post of course but for now a nice easy read before voting for peeps


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,491 ✭✭✭thebostoncrab


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    While I was a fan of Sean O'Haires super cool vignettes and I was interested to see where it went, I think it’s extremely wishful thinking to say it was destined for great things. It was an intriguing to see where this gimmick may have lead to but to assume it was a sure thing is very presumptuous, especially considering Sean O’Haire was badly mishandled when he eventually arrived. This gimmick was a great idea but WWE had no clue as to how to execute it beyond its promo videos.

    WWE had no clue because they gave the gimmick to a man who was too nervous to make it work live. Crowe is NOT that guy. He is more than confident to speak in front of a live crowd and won't have to rely on retakes. You said it yourself, the vignettes were super cool and interesting, but they only fell apart because of O'Haires confidence. You put that gimmick with someone who is able to speak live and you are away to the races.

    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Firstly I’m very aware of Solomon Crowe and I don’t think he’s the worst guy as he’s badly in need of direction. I can imagine him doing similar vignettes and having a similar yet perhaps smaller presence to Sean O’Haire, considering he kind of looks like a mini me of the former Devils Advocate. I have no problems in trying to give this guy a chance considering he’s currently lost in the NXT shuffle with no real character after a few failed ideas. That being said, he’s no time draw act no matter how hard he’s pushed and while he’s capable of holding his own in the ring, he might emulate the success of someone like Rhyno at best rather than be the next star.

    Eh, of course he isn't a draw yet, he isn't in nXt that long. And no one from nXt comes up to the main roster as a draw. That's why you use the vignettes to build up his debut. Make the audience aware of him, make them care and then take your time with his debut.

    beakerjoe wrote: »
    With my idea I play to take a guy with an already big following and all the tools necessary to be a big star and push him to a moon using a tried a tested method for making someone a star with the undefeated gimmick. You will re hash a gimmick that never got off the ground to a guy whos galss ceiling is mid-card at best.

    Why does everyone need to be a main eventer? I want to give a guy a strong gimmick so that he can find his place on the roster and make people care about him. You plan to give a man who has already lost a hell of alot more matches than he has won a undefeated streak gimmick? How are fans going to take that seriously when he has already lost enough?

    Plus, an undefeated streak is only going to mean as much as its ending, and I'm sure you have seen that the second they loose, it's an uphill battle for them to maintain their aura. Cesaro already has a solid fanbase and fans already give a **** about him; he doesn't need a gimmick attached to him to succeed. His drive is his gimmick, and it's why fans already love him.
    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Right now he has the look of a man who doesn’t know what he wants to be. Granted he has a haircut somewhat similar to Sean's old cut, his personality is more of an erratic and unstable ball of energy rather than a cool, calm and collected purveyor of vices. Its a stretch at best.
    crowe-solomon-image.jpg

    .

    Yeah, you know thats a picture from a few years ago? I can use the same argument against Cesaro.

    claudiocastagnoli.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    ]WWE had no clue because they gave the gimmick to a man who was too nervous to make it work live. Crowe is NOT that guy. He is more than confident to speak in front of a live crowd and won't have to rely on retakes. [/QUOTE]

    Whats your evidence of this? Why is he not that guy? Ive never seen him perform for a crowd 8k, or even 5k, what makes you think he would be more confident? Im not saying he wont be, but clearly its too early to tell if he is that confident and sure of himself.

    But it was the characters lack of direction that tanked O'Haires run, not O'Haire. Lets not kid ourselves here. Once the character debuted, his transition from a charcater to a wrestling persona was a tough task and I feel the gimmick was destined to fail as a result no matter who had it.
    You said it yourself, the vignettes were super cool and interesting, but they only fell apart because of O'Haires confidence. You put that gimmick with someone who is able to speak live and you are away to the races.

    Again,its not as simiple as that. You need more than a good speaker to make this gimmick work. You need a direction for the character and a storyline for him to initially transfer the persona from the vignettes to the ring.

    What plans have you got for the Devils Advocate once he debuts..... you've offered nothing after a re-do of the clever promos O'Haire delivered. Wheres the character direction Crabman?

    I imagine you have no direction planned, seeing as its post 2 and you've yet to say where the character would after these promos? How would he debut, who would he feud with? How would his character progress? Why should fans care?

    This gimmick would fall flat after its debut IMO and I think it would ultimately have no legs to stand on


    Eh, of course he isn't a draw yet, he isn't in nXt that long
    .

    Crowe is in NXT for over 2 years (he joined in august of 2013). 2 Years and he’s gone nowhere. Simon Gotch (one half of the Vaudevillans) , a man who has less experience and began in NXT at the same time has found his feet much quicker and is developing at a much quicker rate. He managed to connect with the audience and Crowe is still struggling to find his way.

    Even if Crowe was given a push, this “all build up, no direction” gimmick would do him no favors.

    Oh this is where you are wrong, Crowe is in NXT And no one from nXt comes up to the main roster as a draw.

    Kevin Owens says hello.

    That's why you use the vignettes to build up his debut. Make the audience aware of him, make them care and then take your time with his debut.

    You can re-do the same vignettes with Crowe in the place of O'Haire, but then what? Honestly, you've failed to draw up any solid plans for him except for him to do the same vignettes.



    Why does everyone need to be a main eventer? I want to give a guy a strong gimmick so that he can find his place on the roster and make people care about him.

    Its not a strong gimmick, its an intriging build up at best. You've no solid plans as to what to do with Crowe under this old re-hash.
    You plan to give a man who has already lost a hell of alot more matches than he has won a undefeated streak gimmick? How are fans going to take that seriously when he has already lost enough?

    Not everyone has to be a main eventer, your right. But my plan is to build a main eventer and with my gimmick one can be easily created with the right care. Yours, however, even with a direction after he debuted, would be midcard at best, hence why my idea is simply the more worthwhile idea.

    Plus, an undefeated streak is only going to mean as much as its ending, and I'm sure you have seen that the second they loose, it's an uphill battle for them to maintain their aura.


    But my guy can maintain the aura, like you've said already he has a fanbase and people are dying to get behind him..... my gimmick gives them what they want.....a mega push for a man capable and deserving of making a push work.


    Yeah, you know thats a picture from a few years ago? I can use the same argument against Cesaro.


    Mine is 2 years ago and lets be honest, his up to date pic isnt much better, you failed to add that in.....

    solomon-crowe.jpg

    STATE OF YER LOOK MATE!

    You've picked the wrong man for the gimmick.... and the gimmick isnt that great to begin with.

    Lets be honest, your idea is a series of vignettes and no real gimmick. No real idea for him, no real plan for him once he debuts, no direction....NO HOPE!

    At least I know where my plan is headed, you cant even tell people anything after the promo vids. Your idea, while interesting to a small degree, lacks depth, planning and any true direction. Mine is tried, tested and with a man capable of making it work who the fans will get behind if implemented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    15 votes so far..... still plenty of time to vote peeps


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll bump


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