Is my cider ruined? Fermenting in a plastic bottle but the cap was left loosened

hatrickpatrick

Here's the situation: I've been looking to get into home brewing for a while now and my dad picked up a bottle on Sunday of already fermenting cider, to get started with. As he explained it to me, the guy he bought it from told him to loosen the cap just slightly for around thirty seconds every day, enough to let a bit of air escape but nothing else.

This morning, it apparently started sizzling like an opened can of fanta, and idiotically my mum loosened the cap enough to let air start escaping and then just left it like that, possibly for a couple of hours.

From my understanding of it, this will have allowed it to become contaminated, with the result that the eventual cider will be nasty. Furthermore, I imagine this will also have disrupted the carbonation so it won't be as sparkling as we would have liked.

Is my diagnosis correct? Will this have seriously damaged the cider, and would I be better off throwing it away and buying another one next weekend?

I realise that only hopping in to the brewing process at the last stage is probably frowned upon, but you have to start somewhere

testaccount123

Its fine. CO2 is heavier than oxygen, it sits as a layer on top of the liquid and will protect it from contamination.

That said, you should probably invest in an airlock to allow CO2 to escape that way without having to interfere with your fermentation vessel every day. The more you mess with the fermenter the more likely mistakes are made, beit spillage or actual contamination.

Tefral

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Here's the situation: I've been looking to get into home brewing for a while now and my dad picked up a bottle on Sunday of already fermenting cider, to get started with. As he explained it to me, the guy he bought it from told him to loosen the cap just slightly for around thirty seconds every day, enough to let a bit of air escape but nothing else.

This morning, it apparently started sizzling like an opened can of fanta, and idiotically my mum loosened the cap enough to let air start escaping and then just left it like that, possibly for a couple of hours.

From my understanding of it, this will have allowed it to become contaminated, with the result that the eventual cider will be nasty. Furthermore, I imagine this will also have disrupted the carbonation so it won't be as sparkling as we would have liked.

Is my diagnosis correct? Will this have seriously damaged the cider, and would I be better off throwing it away and buying another one next weekend?

I realise that only hopping in to the brewing process at the last stage is probably frowned upon, but you have to start somewhere

Is this in the secodary? As in the cider has already done primary fermentation and you are literally just carbing up the bottles?

hatrickpatrick

testaccount123 wrote: »

Its fine. CO2 is heavier than oxygen, it sits as a layer on top of the liquid and will protect it from contamination.

That said, you should probably invest in an airlock to allow CO2 to escape that way without having to interfere with your fermentation vessel every day. The more you mess with the fermenter the more likely mistakes are made, beit spillage or actual contamination.

What we have now is the cider (sort of crimson colour as it always has been) with a relatively thin layer of head / foam around the top of it. Does that mean anything?

And also, I plan to get a full brewing kit shortly, I've been planning to for a while - my dad simply came across someone selling these things at an outdoor market last weekend and thought it would be a good mini-experiment before we start properly brewing. The guy he bought it from basically said that you want to loosen the cap every day for only about thirty seconds or so and then tighten it again, and in about three weeks we should have booze (exact words )

So you reckon this is probably ok and nothing to panic about?

hatrickpatrick

cronin_j wrote: »

Is this in the secodary? As in the cider has already done primary fermentation and you are literally just carbing up the bottles?

I'll be honest I'm not sure, see my post above - guy was selling "fermenting cider" in plastic jugs (like the old, big milk cartons) and gave the above instructions (loosen the cap a little every day to let some air out and then it'll be drinkable in 2-3 weeks)

He gave us a business card, I'll find it shortly and post the name of the company in case anyone is familiar with this.

mordeith

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'll be honest I'm not sure, see my post above - guy was selling "fermenting cider" in plastic jugs (like the old, big milk cartons) and gave the above instructions (loosen the cap a little every day to let some air out and then it'll be drinkable in 2-3 weeks)

He gave us a business card, I'll find it shortly and post the name of the company in case anyone is familiar with this.

Could be secondary fermentation, but if it's bottled properly there is no need to loosen any caps. I mean in glass swing tops. If it's in milk cartons then caps won't stay on I'd say

testaccount123

No panic no.

As an aside, Cider takes a very long time to ferment. E.g. not three weeks.

A chap at a recent homebrew meet had a glass demijohn of cider purchased from Llewellyn (sold similar to the way you descrive) which had been fermenting for two years. It was very nice.

rubadub

It will be fine, I would not have it tightened at all, just left loose the whole time and add some sugar in at the end to carbonate it.

It will already be alcoholic and so self preserving. Contaminants would have a difficult time getting up and under the lid. Even in hobby microbiology experiments people get away with loose tin foil covering lids, and as they are not brewing beer/yeast their experiments are VERY susceptible to infections.

You can see with beer they do not even bother with much protection

hatrickpatrick

rubadub wrote: »

It will be fine, I would not have it tightened at all, just left loose the whole time and add some sugar in at the end to carbonate it.

It will already be alcoholic and so self preserving. Contaminants would have a difficult time getting up and under the lid. Even in hobby microbiology experiments people get away with loose tin foil covering lids, and as they are not brewing beer/yeast their experiments are VERY susceptible to infections.

You can see with beer they do not even bother with much protection

Good God what are they making there?

Also, found the guy's card - Llewellyns Orchard. Anyone familiar with this?

katydid

mordeith wrote: »

Could be secondary fermentation, but if it's bottled properly there is no need to loosen any caps. I mean in glass swing tops. If it's in milk cartons then caps won't stay on I'd say

Hmm. I had two bottles of elderflower cordial (cordial, not wine) explode on me in swing top bottles. I had bottled them in late June, and it happened in September. This year I used plastic bottles and had to open it a little every day. It's surprising how much natural yeast those elderflowers have.

mordeith

katydid wrote: »

Hmm. I had two bottles of elderflower cordial (cordial, not wine) explode on me in swing top bottles. I had bottled them in late June, and it happened in September. This year I used plastic bottles and had to open it a little every day. It's surprising how much natural yeast those elderflowers have.

I think the issue there is you left the cordial too long. I've mad it for years in glass swing tops and never had a blow out. But then we'd have it drank in a month. The recipe I use says it doesn't keep beyond that anyway.
Elderflower champagne is another matter. I use 2ltr plastic bottles and vent them every so often.

katydid

mordeith wrote: »

I think the issue there is you left the cordial too long. I've mad it for years in glass swing tops and never had a blow out. But then we'd have it drank in a month. The recipe I use says it doesn't keep beyond that anyway.
Elderflower champagne is another matter. I use 2ltr plastic bottles and vent them every so often.

Well, I still have cordial that I made this year and it's fine. I transferred it to glass bottles once the initial "danger period" was over. The difference, I think, is that I used citric acid, which preserves it for longer. And I have kept the bottles in a cold store room; and in the fridge where I could find room.

So far so good.

rubadub

katydid wrote: »

explode on me in swing top bottles.

were these the clear ones from Ikea by any chance? I don't think they were suitable/intended for brewing

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/tableware/jugs-carafes/korken-bottle-with-stopper-clear-glass-art-30213552/

I am sure some have used them and got away with it but I think they are really just fancy looking bottles and not really built for high pressure.

I would rather get german beer in swing tops and reuse them. I would trust them more than some of the ones some homebrew shops sell which are intended for brewing.

mordeith

were these the clear ones from Ikea by any chance? I don't think they were suitable/intended for brewing

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/t...-art-30213552/

I use those for my cordial and some champagne (rosebay willowherb). I haven't tried anything as volatile as elderflower champagne though.

katydid

rubadub wrote: »

were these the clear ones from Ikea by any chance? I don't think they were suitable/intended for brewing

http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/tableware/jugs-carafes/korken-bottle-with-stopper-clear-glass-art-30213552/

I am sure some have used them and got away with it but I think they are really just fancy looking bottles and not really built for high pressure.

I would rather get german beer in swing tops and reuse them. I would trust them more than some of the ones some homebrew shops sell which are intended for brewing.

The two bottles that exploded on me were swing tops that had that fancy French lemonade in them. The lemonade had been under a fair bit of pressure so I thought they'd be fine for cordial, which shouldn't even be under pressure anyway.

It's made me wary of those bottles since.

The beer bottles are a good idea. Of course, you have to drink the beer out of them first. Tough one.

BeerNut

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Good God what are they making there?

Beer, by the looks of it.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Also, found the guy's card - Llewellyns Orchard. Anyone familiar with this?

Yes, he's a very accomplished cider-maker.

Carawaystick

BeerNut wrote: »

Yes, he's a very accomplished cider-maker.

and wine maker