Jarlath Burns has lost the plot

OldMrBrennan83

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Dirty Dingus McGee

I don't mind the getting rid of the playing of the national anthem as it gets boring playing it before every match.Save it for big occassions.

The other stuff about the flag is purely aimed at Jarlath appearing progressive while at the same time knowing their isn't a hope in hell of something like that happening and I don't see what getting rid of the tri colour would do to reach out to the unionist community.It's bending over rather than reaching out and unionists have to accept that the vast majority of people on the island are represented by the tri colour.

BTW I don't care if I never see another flag at a GAA match but there is no need to get rid of them purely to suck up to people for the sake of it.

Fr Tod Umptious

He is dead right when he says "flags are divisive"

People up there go out of their way to be offended by the flying or non flying of flags.

seligehgit

Whatever about removing the flying of the tricolor and playing of our national anthem in the 6 counties due to the political connotations of flags.I'd be against removing same at GAA matches elsewhere.

As a proud Irish man I get a tingle in my back before every game standing up to sing Amhran na Bhfiann and face our national flag.

blue note

I'm with jarleth on this one. Lots of clubs up there are named after nationalist leaders too. Imagine a lad from a Catholic background, who's parents / grandparents may have been killed in the troubles. He likes rugby and wants to play it, but his local club is Oliver Cromwell RFC and he has to stand facing a union jack while listening to God save the Queen is playing before his matches. That would pretty much close off the sport to that community and that's pretty much the situation for protestants up there with the GAA.

I understand the organisations heritage, but it's not supposed to be a political organisation.

OldMrBrennan83

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blue note

Patww79 wrote: »

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The point is that there are probably lots of lads who would like to play it but are made to feel unwelcome by the organisation. I doubt they care too much, but I'm disappointed in our organisation for excluding a huge portion of the population.

Jaden

Gaelic Games are exactly that - Games.

The primary focus of the GAA has always been the development of the games themselves. It is fair to say that the origins of the GAA were with more political/nationalistic aims in mind, but we have long since reached a point where that no longer needs to be the case.

The larger question is, what is it we want Gaelic games to be? Should they be an Irish Only activity, designed to bolster nationalist and patriotic sentiment? Or, should they be sports that we, as a nation foster as a showcase for what is good about Ireland.

Ask two different people that question, and you'll get two very different answers.

Put it this way.

If a Hurling match was played in Antwerp (Or London for that matter), and there was no Irish flag flying, or no National Anthem played beforehand, no-one would bat an eyelid, it's a game after all.

Suggest doing the same in Belfast, and people would loose their s**t very quickly.

I think there is a case to be made for reserving the National Anthem for events of National importance or significance. Ditto flying the tricolour. To have it as a legacy bolt-on to every GAA match played cheapens the significance of both.

We need to think about the future of our Games, and maybe consider trying to untangle the Sport and the Politics - the two rarely do well together.

Kermit.de.frog

Mr Burns is regarded as one of the most progressive voices in Gaelic sport

K-9

Playing the anthem or flying the flag is significant in the six counties though.

Not that particularly bothered but I wouldn't say it wasn't important culturally. Usually these things would be met by a matching gesture elsewhere, I'm not sure what that would be? The Orange Order flying a tricolor seems pointless tbh.

munchkin_utd

K-9 wrote: »

Playing the anthem or flying the flag is significant in the six counties though.

Not that particularly bothered but I wouldn't say it wasn't important culturally. Usually these things would be met by a matching gesture elsewhere, I'm not sure what that would be? The Orange Order flying a tricolor seems pointless tbh.

the northern Ireland soccer team could maybe not play god save the queen and use the flag of a disbanded bigoted sectarian parliament which since it is no longer the flag of anything official (aside from the soccer) is mainly associated with loyalist terrorists who get their kicks from torturing and murdering catholics.

but anyhow, I can see how the tricolour is viewed with similar glasses from the other side so like Jarlath, if it'd help bring Gaelic games to the wider community then so be it.

homerjay2005

dont think Burns ever had "the plot" in the first place, he has been ranting garbage for years.

funkey_monkey

If there was one flag that every could and should be able to accept it is the Tricolor. The symbolism behind it is lost on far too many people on this island - from both traditions.

However, it has been hijacked by some and vilified by others.

It might be a better approach (more tolerant/appealing) to have some rules for the naming of clubs and competitions.

munchkin_utd

funkey_monkey wrote: »

If there was one flag that every could and should be able to accept it is the Tricolor. The symbolism behind it is lost on far too many people on this island - from both traditions.

However, it has been hijacked by some and vilified by others.

It might be a better approach (more tolerant/appealing) to have some rules for the naming of clubs and competitions.

its already a requirement for club names.
Maybe should be extended to competitions, trophies and grounds.

A Club shall not be named after a living person or after any existing political or semi-political organisation. It must bear a name in the Irish language.

https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/2015%20Official%20Guide%20-%20Part%201.pdf - page 17

funkey_monkey

Yes, however, the unionists kicked up recently about a club named after a dead IRA man who used to play for the club when he was younger.

There was something more recent though:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8286313.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18322046

Dirty Dingus McGee

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the northern Ireland soccer team could maybe not play god save the queen and use the flag of a disbanded bigoted sectarian parliament which since it is no longer the flag of anything official (aside from the soccer) is mainly associated with loyalist terrorists who get their kicks from torturing and murdering catholics.

but anyhow, I can see how the tricolour is viewed with similar glasses from the other side so like Jarlath, if it'd help bring Gaelic games to the wider community then so be it.

Removing the flag in order to keep a section of population happy would almost be like the GAA trying to deny it's an Irish organisation.There is nothing wrong with flying of the flag as it is clearly not flown in order to antagonise people and it only seems to offend a very small proportion of the islands population.

The Tri Colour is supposed to represent all elements of Ireland so maybe if people in the north want to play gaelic games they have to accept that.

If people in general think it;s a bad idea to fly the flag then get rid of it but it shouldn't be done to suck up to people.

Yodeling Snake

He's stretching too far. The man has gone bananas.

OldMrBrennan83

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Realt Dearg Sec

Patww79 wrote: »

There's none who would like to play it. They're reared to despise it and they wouldn't be allowed by their society eveb if they had the inkling. That's why Burns' submission is as pointless as offensive.

Sure why bother making any effort at all so? Sure let's all just hate each other forever because that's the way people have been brought up and that's it.

Realt Dearg Sec

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The Tri Colour is supposed to represent all elements of Ireland so maybe if people in the north want to play gaelic games they have to accept that.

Hmmm...

The Union Jack is supposed to represent all elements of Great Britain and Northern Ireland so maybe if people in northern Ireland want to play Gaelic games they have to accept that...

Both flags are SUPPOSED to represent everyone, the whole point of the discussion is that they don't, and in both cases, for some people, they represent something reprehensible to them. And again, the point of the suggestion is that rather than saying "like it or **** off" that there might be a way of building bridges between the communities. Responding to that suggestion by saying "like it or **** off" is kind of missing the point.

blue note

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Removing the flag in order to keep a section of population happy would almost be like the GAA trying to deny it's an Irish organisation.There is nothing wrong with flying of the flag as it is clearly not flown in order to antagonise people and it only seems to offend a very small proportion of the islands population.

A very small proportion? A third of NI identify as unionist - that's more than the population of connaught. And 40% identify as neither unionist nor nationalist. They don't sound like they want to get involved in an organisation so clearly aligned one way. There's a significant portion of the island excluded from the organisation because of it's political leanings.

OldMrBrennan83

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OldMrBrennan83

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Dirty Dingus McGee

blue note wrote: »

A very small proportion? A third of NI identify as unionist - that's more than the population of connaught. And 40% identify as neither unionist nor nationalist. They don't sound like they want to get involved in an organisation so clearly aligned one way. There's a significant portion of the island excluded from the organisation because of it's political leanings.

I said a very small proportion of the "Island's population".

The GAA is a 32 county organisation.NI unionists make up about 10% of the islands population.

The association is an Irish association and the flag is not being flown in an antagonistic manner.Surely if unionists want to join they have to accept that the tri colour represents the vast majority of the islands population and was intended to represent to entirety of the islands population and that the flag is not being flown to offend them.

The Irish Rugby team don't fly the tri colour when they play away from home and people from Ireland have to accept that.

Only a very small proportion of people on this island are supposedly offended by the tri colour.

I don't care if I never see another tri colour again but I don't see why there is a need to bend over to suit people who treated GAA members with contempt for years and do something that is purely a tokenistic gesture when the flag clearly is only considered offensive to a small minority of people.

Perhaps if unionists want to join the GAA they have to accept that it is an Irish organisation, the flag represents the vast majority of the GAA members and perhaps they need to accept it isn't been flow to offend them and move on.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Hmmm...

The Union Jack is supposed to represent all elements of Great Britain and Northern Ireland so maybe if people in northern Ireland want to play Gaelic games they have to accept that...

Both flags are SUPPOSED to represent everyone, the whole point of the discussion is that they don't, and in both cases, for some people, they represent something reprehensible to them. And again, the point of the suggestion is that rather than saying "like it or **** off" that there might be a way of building bridges between the communities. Responding to that suggestion by saying "like it or **** off" is kind of missing the point.

Not really.

I have to accept loads of things I don't like about this country because the majority want it that way.That is the way democracy works.If there was a close to 50/50 split between unionist and nationalist across the whole island then perhaps they may have a point but considering the unionist population are a very small minority then sadly for them they need to accept that, and maybe accept that the flag is not flown in order to offend anyone.

blue note

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I said a very small proportion of the "Island's population".

The GAA is a 32 county organisation.NI unionists make up about 10% of the islands population.

The association is an Irish association and the flag is not being flown in an antagonistic manner.Surely if unionists want to join they have to accept that the tri colour represents the vast majority of the islands population and was intended to represent to entirety of the islands population and that the flag is not being flown to offend them.

The Irish Rugby team don't fly the tri colour when they play away from home and people from Ireland have to accept that.

Only a very small proportion of people on this island are supposedly offended by the tri colour.

I don't care if I never see another tri colour again but I don't see why there is a need to bend over to suit people who treated GAA members with contempt for years and do something that is purely a tokenistic gesture when the flag clearly is only considered offensive to a small minority of people.

Perhaps if unionists want to join the GAA they have to accept that it is an Irish organisation, the flag represents the vast majority of the GAA members and perhaps they need to accept it isn't been flow to offend them and move on.

I didn't misread your post, we just seem to have different ideas on what a very small proportion f the islands population is. 10% is significant to me. As I say, connaught has less that 10% of the island's population. And if the organisation was doing something that was downright offensive to them and clear for everyone to see there would be a push to change. But since it's NI unionists and not "people like us" we're outraged at the thought of changing it.

The problem isn't what the proportion is, it's who the proportion is.

Dirty Dingus McGee

blue note wrote: »

I didn't misread your post, we just seem to have different ideas on what a very small proportion f the islands population is. 10% is significant to me. As I say, connaught has less that 10% of the island's population. And if the organisation was doing something that was downright offensive to them and clear for everyone to see there would be a push to change. But since it's NI unionists and not "people like us" we're outraged at the thought of changing it.

The problem isn't what the proportion is, it's who the proportion is.

It may offend them but it shouldn't and they need to accept that the flag is not being flown to offend anyone.

I'm sure there were certain people in the GAA who were offended by the playing of soccer and rugby in Croke Park and the playing of god save the queen etc. but it shouldn't have offended them and they had to move on and accept the majority decision.The same applies here.