Car written off in UK. What now?

snaps

Ok, As a few of you know I'm an ex pat living in Poland. Was heading back to Ireland via Uk last week and had a serious car accident (Lucky to be alive), car totalled.

Myself and my passenger were taken to hospital via Ambulance and my car recovered by the police to a garage.

The Yorkshire Police have sent me the accident incident email containing all the Insurance details of involved parties (9 car pile up, I was the last one to crash into them). So I've forwarded this email to my Insurance company in Poland telling them what's happened and I was involved in this accident. To be honest my Insurance company are not returning phone calls or being very forthcoming with infomation.

So I was let out of hospital yesterday and today I am heading down to the garage were my car has been taken so I can retrieve all my personal items.

What I want to know, is will the garage be demanding monies off me now for recovery and storage of my wreck?

The car is totalled and will be scrapped, will they be untitled to keep it to sell it for scrap/parts? Do I just refer this garage to my Insurance company in Poland?

I don't want to be handing over any money today, things are a huge mess as it is as I feel stranded 2000kms from home away from my family and of course with current exchange rates, everything is so expensive here.

I know this is not an Irish related topic, but someone might have some information for me.

My car is currently between Doncaster and Barnsley on the M1, so its a 2.5hr drive from where I am in Essex.

Just to add, before my car was recovered, I told the Police man (Whilst I was in the Ambulance being breathalysed) I had recovery cover and I could get my car recovered, but they insisted they got it done.

Also the Emergency services were fantastic in the UK, Police and Medical staff. Air Ambulance and Police helicopter were on scene within minutes before motor response arrived.

R.O.R

Glad you didn't end up like the car, and hope there's no long lasting damage!

There will be storage charges and recovery charges, so you'll need to get something done as soon as you can to minimize that. If the car is a total loss, then the recovery company may be able to dispose of the salvage, but that instruction will need to come from your insurance company.

Hopefully, they won't require repatriation of the wreck - unless you have that sort of coverage with your breakdown assistance, that will be very expensive.

You need to get on to your insurance company and get them on the case as quickly as possible.

CiniO

Hi Snaps.
Really sorry to hear about that. Hope you and your passenger are allright.

In relation to insurance the major issue I see here, is establishing the guilt for accident.
As your car is registered and insured in Poland, rules there seem to be completely different to rules in UK or Ireland.
In UK afaik, it's up to insurance companies to establish who was at fault (caused the accident). They obtain all details and decide.
In Poland it's opposite - in case of small accidents with no one injured, usualy drivers agree by themselves who was guilty and write a statment, which then later needs to be attached with your claim to the insurer. Or police can make a report if you ask them (or in case of accident where people are injured or killed they do it whether you ask them or not) and you attach this report to your claim.
Short answer then is that Polish insurance companies do not take care of establishing who was to blame in the accident.

Did UK police issue any statement who was to blame for this?

If you were the last one to hit the pile up, I'm affraid this might be put as your fault, but I'm only guessing in here.
If that was the case, other driver (in front of you) after obtaining your insurance details from police will probably claim from your third party policy (OC). He will be able to do it through UK insurer which is representative of your Polish insurer in UK (every insurer in EU should have representative in every EU country).

In relation to you car - did you have full comprehensive policy (one which on to of third party cover - called OC - also include own car damage cover - called AC or Autocasco?

If so, they will have to pay for your car. How will they do it - I have no clue - I might try to look up and find out, but at the moment I just don't know.
Normally in cases of vehicle being written off (no official write off system like that in Poland, but there is term "szkoda calkowita" which insurers use and it means that vehicle is not economically viable for repairing) insurer would establish vehicle value before the accident, vehicle value after the accident, and pay the difference.
In your case though, vehicle value after the accident might be 0 as it's in the UK where nothing really can be done with it, and it can't be sold like it could be in Poland.

In relation to your towing and storage charges - I've seen many roadside assistance policies to cover costs even if you use towing service provided by someone else, but I would inform them as soon as possilble and once you recieve receipt from towing costs, forward it to them. Where do you have your breakdown cover - is it from the same insurer you have your car insurance?

Also you might want to call PBUK (Polskie biuro ubezpieczen komunikacyjnych - Polish bureau of vehicle insurance) which is represntative body for car insurers in Poland similar to MIBI in Ireland. They should be able to advice what to do in such case.
They have website in english: http://pbuk.pl/en/

snaps

Thanks cino. Only OC insurance with extra passenger cover!

I'm just arriving at the garage to retrieve my stuff now, I will see what they say.

I got an email from the police this morning to say no more police action will be taken and its up to insurance to find the cause and blame!

I am OK, bad whiplash but I'm alive.

Also my insurance company contacted me this morning. They have told me i don't have to do anything as the other insurance companies will be in touch. They seem very relaxed about the whole thing.

I'm more worried about recovery costs and storage costs of my car as with exchange rates it might bankrupt me as I already know I'm getting 0 for my car.

CiniO

snaps wrote: »

Thanks cino. Only OC insurance with extra passenger cover!

I'm just arriving at the garage to retrieve my stuff now, I will see what they say.

I got an email from the police this morning to say no more police action will be taken and its up to insurance to find the cause and blame!

I am OK, bad whiplash but I'm alive.

Also my insurance company contacted me this morning. They have told me i don't have to do anything as the other insurance companies will be in touch. They seem very relaxed about the whole thing.

I'm more worried about recovery costs and storage costs of my car as with exchange rates it might bankrupt me as I already know I'm getting 0 for my car.

Allright, that clears up a bit.

By saying you had only OC + extra passenger cover I assume you mean NW (ubezpieczenie od "nieszczesliwych wypadkow"). That's a personal injury cover for vehicle occupans (including driver) so you can claim from that yourself as well as for your passenger.
However limits on those covers are usually very low (arround 10,000zl probably so don't expect to get too much).

The biggest worry seems to be establishing who was at fault. I'm not sure what are general rules of establishing fault in pile-ups.
But if driver in front of you claims from your policy, this will most likely go ahead.
Your insurer might sent you a form to fill out to confirm exactly what happend, but unless you deny the whole thing they will have to pay up to the guy. This will reduce your NCB by a bit but probably not much (single claim probably not more than 20%) so it shouldn't be too bad.

However if there's a change that it's you who might be a victim here, and you'd be entitled to claim from policy of person who was at fault, then I'm sure PBUK should be able to assist you with that. I'd definitely get in touch with them.

In relation to towing charges, I would contact your breakdown assistance and inform them what happened and that vehicle was towed away by someone else and you were not given a chance to ring them and organise a towing with them, which I'm sure it's pretty common in accidents, especially if someone is injured.
They should pay up.
And if they don't - I don't know. I'm not sure if they will have any way to force you to pay for that towing and storage anyway.

snaps

Its been a long day! Just back down south after sorting out my possessions (A lot as I was on holiday) from my wreck. I really was lucky to walk out of it alive now looking at it today!

I was charged a Highways agency fee for the cleanup and recovery plus I was also charged storage.

My Insurance company had already told me I would not get a penny for my car and they were unsure if they would pay out for the recovery as well as it wasn't done through them (I was in the back of an ambulance)!

I was told I would be charged 25 pounds a day storage as well.

My Insurance company told me to get the number plates and have it scrapped.

So I scrapped the car (I have written evidence) and got the only number plate left on it.

I paid the outstanding amount so its the end of it, I did not want a bill in a few months time for thousands of pounds which would equate to a years wages in Poland!

So now its all down to what happens with the other parties involved, Who claims of my insurance for damage.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

As a Romanian car driver had stopped and said a part of my car had flown off into his car and damaged it, even though he came through many vehicles after the collision (According to an HGV driver that had stop to assist).

CiniO

snaps wrote: »

Its been a long day! Just back down south after sorting out my possessions (A lot as I was on holiday) from my wreck. I really was lucky to walk out of it alive now looking at it today!

I was charged a Highways agency fee for the cleanup and recovery plus I was also charged storage.

How much roughly was that?
Did you have to pay it yourself on the spot?

My Insurance company had already told me I would not get a penny for my car and they were unsure if they would pay out for the recovery as well as it wasn't done through them (I was in the back of an ambulance)!

Which insurer did you have your breakdown assistance with? I can have a look at T&C.

I was told I would be charged 25 pounds a day storage as well.

My Insurance company told me to get the number plates and have it scrapped.

So I scrapped the car (I have written evidence) and got the only number plate left on it.

I'd imagine, you'll need to inform the vehicle registration office (Urząd komunikacji) that vehicle was scrapped and hand them back the number plates, and provide with proof of scrappage (written evidence you have - just give them a copy - keep the original). This should sort you out that you won't need to have the vehicle insured anymore as it doesn't exist. Otherwise if you fail to do it, you could get fined for not insuring the vehicle which in reality doesn't exists. Also (which might sound ridiculous) I'd contact your insurance company to make sure they won't renew your policy for next year, as normally they do it automatically.

I paid the outstanding amount so its the end of it, I did not want a bill in a few months time for thousands of pounds which would equate to a years wages in Poland!

So now its all down to what happens with the other parties involved, Who claims of my insurance for damage.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

As a Romanian car driver had stopped and said a part of my car had flown off into his car and damaged it, even though he came through many vehicles after the collision (According to an HGV driver that had stop to assist).

Here you are in quite good position.
Whatever happens, and whoever claims off your policy, it's not really your problem at this stage. Your insurer will pay up if they have to, but amount they pay up won't affect your future insurance cost. It's still going to be treated as single claim and therefore your NCB will most likely decrease by about 20% only.

I would still contact PBUK though to find out if there are any chances if you could claim from someone's elses policy. Maybe in case of pile up you as last person to hit the pileup were not at fault, and blame should be assigned to those who cause a pile up. Worth trying.

snaps

PZU breakdown only covers me for recovery within Poland.

I had 3rd party European breakdown cover with PZMOT (You recommended it). They wont cover me for the recovery as I never went through them.

I was in a back of an ambulance so i couldn't make the choice. I told the Police man I had recovery cover, but I suppose it was a lot easier for him to use the contracted recovery agent.

I paid 275 pounds for storage and recovery. I couldn't risk that increasing by the day and then being hit with a huge sterling bill in a few months time.

I do count my lucky stars as you can see from the Pics it was quite a shunt.

Marcusm

snaps wrote: »

PZU breakdown only covers me for recovery within Poland.

I had 3rd party European breakdown cover with PZMOT (You recommended it). They wont cover me for the recovery as I never went through them.

I was in a back of an ambulance so i couldn't make the choice. I told the Police man I had recovery cover, but I suppose it was a lot easier for him to use the contracted recovery agent.

I paid 275 pounds for storage and recovery. I couldn't risk that increasing by the day and then being hit with a huge sterling bill in a few months time.

I do count my lucky stars as you can see from the Pics it was quite a shunt.

Your own breakdown cover is irrelevant; there was a multi car accident and the police are entitled to require that they direct the removal of the cars and debris. This is important as they can ensure that it is done in a timely and safe Amber and does not involve multiple recovery services over an extended period of time. Where there is a prospect of criminal sanctions, again it is appropriate for the police to control the cars as evidence until a decision is made. It sounds as if there are not to be any criminal proceedings meaning that you are free to recover your property or make arrangements for it to be scrapped, subject to any requirements of your insurer.

CiniO

snaps wrote: »

PZU breakdown only covers me for recovery within Poland.

I had 3rd party European breakdown cover with PZMOT (You recommended it). They wont cover me for the recovery as I never went through them.

I was in a back of an ambulance so i couldn't make the choice. I told the Police man I had recovery cover, but I suppose it was a lot easier for him to use the contracted recovery agent.

Yeap, unfortunately looks like that's how it works.

Here's a bit from their terms and conditions
http://www.sospzmot.pl/files/WU2012.pdf

§37
Nie pokrywamy kosztów świadczeń, które nie zostały udzielone z naszej inicjatywy lub za naszą zgodą,
nawet, gdy uzyskanie takiej zgody było utrudnione albo niemożliwe.

Quickly transalting, they say they don't cover the costs of services which were not proceeded by their initiative or with their agreement, even if obtaining such agreement was impeded or impossible.

I paid 275 pounds for storage and recovery. I couldn't risk that increasing by the day and then being hit with a huge sterling bill in a few months time.

I do count my lucky stars as you can see from the Pics it was quite a shunt.

It looks fairly bad. Glad you are OK.

snaps

Thanks for all the help and advice.

I've looked at the websites you suggested.

Now I've a problem, I need a certificate of destruction for the polish motor office so they can unregister my car and I can cancel the insurance.

The garage said they can't issue a certificate as car is not registered in uk?

I've a letter from the highway agency saying its been destroyed but my local motor office are saying its not good enough.

I've also got the one remaining registration plate to take back to poland tomorrow.

CiniO

Ahh the joys of usual Polish bureaucratic nonsense.

Possibly you could argue with UK scrap garage, that they should issue scrap cert no matter which EU country vehicle is registered at. But that's probably not going to be easy.

But if I were you, I would just write a fictional sale agreement with fake person (ideally with foreign adress) and hand it down to your local vehicle registration office.
That's while not exactly legal, should be the easiest way to get the car out of your name.
I don't thing there is any other way to do it if they are requesting scrap cert. Eventually they might advise themselves to do it.
It's just a silly way of doing things there.

Clearlier

snaps wrote: »

Thanks for all the help and advice.

I've looked at the websites you suggested.

Now I've a problem, I need a certificate of destruction for the polish motor office so they can unregister my car and I can cancel the insurance.

The garage said they can't issue a certificate as car is not registered in uk?

I've a letter from the highway agency saying its been destroyed but my local motor office are saying its not good enough.

I've also got the one remaining registration plate to take back to poland tomorrow.

I found this when I googled but further googling and searching of the gov.uk website doesn't find anything to support it. Nonetheless it may be worth asking the scrap yard if they can issue you with a notification of destruction.

Regardless of the answer it may be worth asking for something from them to confirm that they have actually destroyed it that you can keep for your own peace of mind.