Filing Company Accounts - some questions

aindriu80

I am going to file company accounts myself to the CRO to save money. I have a copy of the accounts my accountant from before and I am going to copy them.

I have a few questions:

Can I submit the accounts myself ?

Do I need to sign every page of the accounts ? Or can I just print out the pages in word and bind them together.

Do they need to be binded together or can I print them off and staple them together ?

glued

aindriu80 wrote: »

I am going to file company accounts myself to the CRO to save money. I have a copy of the accounts my accountant from before and I am going to copy them.

I have a few questions:

Can I submit the accounts myself ?

Do I need to sign every page of the accounts ? Or can I just print out the pages in word and bind them together.

Do they need to be binded together or can I print them off and staple them together ?

You can submit the accounts but you will have to prepare the B1 yourself, assuming your accountant hasn't prepared one. Just attach the abridged accounts to the B1 and submit them to the CRO. An Online B1 is €20 and a paper B1 is €40.

You don't need to sign every page just the directors report, p&l etc. that will need to be signed by two directors. Any good set of accounts should be obvious where you have to sign.

barneystinson

And don't worry about the fact that Company Law has changed fundamentally since 1 June 2015, when the new Companies Act commenced... Good luck figuring out the correct legislative references for your accounts!

glued

barneystinson wrote: »

And don't worry about the fact that Company Law has changed fundamentally since 1 June 2015, when the new Companies Act commenced... Good luck figuring out the correct legislative references for your accounts!

Yeah, I misread the OP. You really should go to an accountant. As mentioned above all the Companies Acts references will have changed and the CRO won't accept accounts submitted with references to the old act.

I thought you had accounts prepared but just wanted to file them yourself.

Of course you can still prepare them yourself but if you make a mistake and you end up past your ARD then you will have to pay for a full audit.

aindriu80

thanks for the replies !

I forgot I filled the B1 online before with accounts. But they were simple as I didn't trade. I just had a page on shares. There is a new companies law 2015 like you said but I'm not sure if I have to do anything but change the date on my accounts document.

I have to add just two pages (1) is profit and loss, (2) a balance sheet. I sent all my tax back and there isnt too many € figures involved. Would that be it ?

barneystinson

aindriu80 wrote: »

thanks for the replies !

I forgot I filled the B1 online before with accounts. But they were simple as I didn't trade. I just had a page on shares. There is a new companies law 2015 like you said but I'm not sure if I have to do anything but change the date on my accounts document.

I have to add just two pages (1) is profit and loss, (2) a balance sheet. I sent all my tax back and there isnt too many € figures involved. Would that be it ?

Sure try it and let us know how you get on!

aindriu80

lol. It will have to do

glued

aindriu80 wrote: »

thanks for the replies !

I forgot I filled the B1 online before with accounts. But they were simple as I didn't trade. I just had a page on shares. There is a new companies law 2015 like you said but I'm not sure if I have to do anything but change the date on my accounts document.

I have to add just two pages (1) is profit and loss, (2) a balance sheet. I sent all my tax back and there isnt too many € figures involved. Would that be it ?

It's not just the dates the sections have changed too. Also there is an updated note for audit exempt status. You're taking a risk by doing them yourself.

It's not worth the risk of going audit IMO.

aindriu80

there is two bits of text in my previous accounts :

Statement of directors’ responsibilities and declaration on un-audited financial statements

General responsibilities

Company law requires the directors to prepare financial statements for each financial period which give a true and fair view of the state of affairs of the company and of the profit or loss of the company for that period.

The directors are responsible for keeping proper books of account which disclose with reasonable accuracy at any time the financial position of the company and to enable them ensure the financial statements comply with the Companies Acts, 1963-2013 and all Regulations to be construed as one with those Acts. They are also responsible for ensuring the company otherwise complies with the provisions of those Acts relating to financial statements insofar as they are applicable to the company. They have general responsibility for taking such steps as are reasonably open to them to safeguard the assets of the company and hence to prevent and detect fraud and other irregularities.

Directors’ declaration on un-audited financial statements

In relation to the financial statements as set out on pages 3 to 4:

(a) The directors approve these financial statements and confirm that they are responsible for them, including selecting the appropriate accounting policies, applying them consistently and making, on a reasonable and prudent basis, the judgements underlying them. They have been prepared on the going concern basis on the grounds that the company will continue in business.

(b) The directors confirm that to the best of their knowledge and belief, the accounting records reflect all the transactions of the company for the period ending 31 December 2013

We, as Directors of Limited, state that:

(a) the company is availing itself of the exemption provided for by Part III of the Companies (Amendment)(No.2) Act, 1999;
(b) the company satisfies the conditions specified in Section 32 of the 1999 Act;
(c) the shareholders of the company have not served notice on the company in accordance with section33 (1) and (2) of the 1999 Act;
(d) we acknowledge the company’s obligations under the Companies Acts 1963-2013, to keep proper books of account and to prepare accounts which give a true and fair view of the state of affairs of the company at the end of its financial year and of its profits or loss for such a year and to otherwise comply with the provisions of those Acts relating to accounts so far as they are applicable to the company;
(e) we hereby certify that we have relied on the specific exemptions contained in sections 10 and 12 of the Companies (Amendment) Act, 1986 on the grounds that the company is entitled to the benefits of those exemptions as a small company.

I will have to check out the above for changes but I don't think I will need extra info inserted.

marizpan

They are out of date due to CA2014 which took effect from June 2015.

Personally I think it is risky to be filing accounts yourself but what do I know!

aindriu80

marizpan wrote: »

They are out of date due to CA2014 which took effect from June 2015.

Personally I think it is risky to be filing accounts yourself but what do I know!

Yes thanks but paying €1,500 for a check up on https://www.cro.ie/Publications/Legislation/Company is not worth it.

barneystinson

aindriu80 wrote: »

Yes thanks but paying €1,500 for a check up on https://www.cro.ie/Publications/Legislation/Company is not worth it.

It shouldn't be costing anywhere near that much. I'm sure you could find an accountant who'd be willing to simply take your accounts and append the necessary legislative references, couple of hundred quid.

marizpan

Who has produced the accounts that you will be submitting?

barneystinson

marizpan wrote: »

Who has produced the accounts that you will be submitting?

Mar, try to keep up, it's a DIY job start to finish.

marizpan

barneystinson wrote: »

Mar, try to keep up, it's a DIY job start to finish.

Sigh....this will be interestingðŸ˜

aindriu80

marizpan wrote: »

Who has produced the accounts that you will be submitting?

an accountant produced full accounts for my previous company, i used them to get a cut down version for my current company. I will just add in the two pages for trading and update the text myself.

barneystinson

aindriu80 wrote: »

an accountant produced full accounts for my previous company, i used them to get a cut down version for my current company. I will just add in the two pages for trading and update the text myself.

And why would you send trading accounts to the CRO?!

You REALLY don't seem to have a clue what needs to be filed. Stop being hungry, just pay the minimum possible to someone with the necessary expertise.

capefear

I would recommend what others have said by getting an accountant to submit your returns both to the cro and the revenue commissioners, but if you want to do it yourself to save some money that's up to you.

On the b1 you can choose that you want to submit the accounts based on the CA2014 or the CA1963-2013. Either of these are fine so you can submit your balance sheet and audit exemption text based on what your previous accountant submitted if your happy that your figures are correct, it's the balance sheet only not the profit and loss.

If you submit the b1 and the cro send it back because there is a mistake, they will tell you why they sent it back to you on the letter and they will give you 14 days to resubmit the correct paperwork and once you get the return back within 14 days you won't lose your audit exemption. If you send it in again within the 14 days and there is still a mistake they will send it back to you again with a letter saying why it is been refused this time and you will get another 14 days to correct it and resubmit it without losing your audit exemption.

But for 500-600 save yourself the hassle and get an accountant to do it.

glued

The CRO have stated that they will only accept accounts that reference the 2014 companies act. The option to submit under either act ended in July.

capefear

Have a look at the b1 form on the cro site and on the first page it says ca2014 or ca1963-2013 and it says it again on page 5

superb choice of username

capefear wrote: »

Have a look at the b1 form on the cro site and on the first page it says ca2014 or ca1963-2013 and it says it again on page 5

Yes it does, it depends when the accounts were signed off. You can't just pick and choose either option freely.

glued

capefear wrote: »

Have a look at the b1 form on the cro site and on the first page it says ca2014 or ca1963-2013 and it says it again on page 5

Yes it does say that but if the accounts are signed on or after the 1st of July you have to reference the new companies act. They won't accept references to the old act now.

capefear

superb choice of username wrote: »

You can't just pick and choose either option freely.

I didn't say you can just pick and choose either option.

if the financial year ends before 1 June 2015 and the financial statements are signed by the director(s) before 1 June, they must be prepared and filed in accordance with the 1963-2013 Companies Acts;
if the financial year ends after 1 June 2015, the financial statements must be prepared and filed under the 2014 Companies Act.

dbran

Hi

This is a very interesting thread and I think folks are missing a very important pont here.

Even if you do get all of the references right re the new companies act and it is accepted in the CRO, they will not read your accounts and tell you if they are right.

They will not tell you if they make sense and they will not tell you if you will end up paying more tax as a result. If your accounts dont balance or add up or they are missing vital notes the CRO will not tell you.

Once the accounts are filed it will be difficult to withdraw them if they are wrong or they cause a tax problem.

What you file in the CRO says a lot about your business. It will be very obvious that the the accounts have not been prepared by a proper accountant. Also, unless you are running a very small business you can be certain that your competitors, suppliers, potential customers etc will pull your accounts just to see what is going on with you.

Imagine spending all of that time doing a presentation to a big customer about your company, showing them you have the resources to bring the project to the end, that you run your business properly and are financially astute.

When all of the time the guy at the other side of the desk knows that this is not true. You are certainly a small company. You try to wing it and do a DIY job rather then call in a professional. You clearly have no accountant so thus if things go wrong on the project financially you dont call in anyone until it is too late. Should I give this guy a chance or do I check the next guy.

You should give your business every chance of success and in terms of accounts at least, if you dont know what you are doing you should leave it to the professionals. If you believe the price is to much you get a better quote. The fact that you want to do it yourself suggests that you dont want to pay anything.

Best of luck with it anyway.

dbran