Tax rates

Sebastian Dangerfield

Im looking to upgrade my car, and had been working on the (seemingly incorrect) basis that motor tax is cheaper on cars from 2008 or newer.

I currently drive a 03 automatic petrol 2.0 Audi A4, and the tax is 710 per year. Cheaper upkeep is one of the points I sold to the wife to justify changing the car. Im looking to get an Opel Insignia - I saw one in a garage in Celbridge but according to the disc the tax is 750 per year. I ran both my current reg and the reg of the Insignia on the motor tax website, which confirms it.

Does anyone know why a newer car with a smaller engine could cost more to tax than the guzzler I have?

Cupra280

The method for calculating car tax changed in July 2008, from an engine size model to an emissions model.

You are changing make and model for your potential new car, so you are not comparing like with like. I would guess that if your Audi A4 was taxed on an emissions rate, it would be more expensive than €710.

Are you after another automatic? That may have an effect on increasing the emissions of the Insignia.

Brasso

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesbasedonCO2Emissions/
As the above link shows it's based on CO2 rates after '08. Some car makers were using older engines that weren't as efficient this way around 2008. The system usually benefits diesel cars and turbocharged petrols, although some BMWs for example went from a 2.5 litre to a 3 litre and emmiaions went down so they got €750 tax rate.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Thanks - no, the one Im looking at is a manual transmission - Id prefer an automatic, but there arent many around in my price range. I had been told that the new calc method resulted in cheaper tax in almost all cases - obviously not the case!

Brasso

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Thanks - no, the one Im looking at is a manual transmission - Id prefer an automatic, but there arent many around in my price range. I had been told that the new calc method resulted in cheaper tax in almost all cases - obviously not the case!

Yeah unfortunately the automatic gearbox can increase your CO2 and tax rate, although sometimes the likes of VW's DSG gearbos will lower the emissions.

CiniO

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Im looking to upgrade my car, and had been working on the (seemingly incorrect) basis that motor tax is cheaper on cars from 2008 or newer.

I currently drive a 03 automatic petrol 2.0 Audi A4, and the tax is 710 per year. Cheaper upkeep is one of the points I sold to the wife to justify changing the car. Im looking to get an Opel Insignia - I saw one in a garage in Celbridge but according to the disc the tax is 750 per year. I ran both my current reg and the reg of the Insignia on the motor tax website, which confirms it.

Does anyone know why a newer car with a smaller engine could cost more to tax than the guzzler I have?

Motortax rates based on emissions (from 2008 onwards) are not really cheaper than older rates based on engine size (up to 2008).
Have a look at the rates here:
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesBasedonEngineSize/
Engine size Rates from €199 to €1809

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesbasedonCO2Emissions/
CO2 emission rates from €120 to €2350.

Only thing is that older rates favour small engine sizes which usually come in tiny city cars. Those are cheap to tax on those rates.
Newer emission rates, favour car emitting low CO2, so this favours modern diesel engines found in both small and big car.

Funnily this made bigger cars with diesel engines very cheap to tax on newer rates compared to old engine size rates.
However any petrol performance vehicles, usually come much more expensive on new CO2 rates than old engine size rates.

IMO the whole system is bit flawed.

bmstuff

Stay away from an Insignia though, the biggest hip of crap I have ever seen. A Renault is better built. A we know Renault are built in the cheap.

Sebastian Dangerfield

bmstuff wrote: »

Stay away from an Insignia though, the biggest hip of crap I have ever seen. A Renault is better built. A we know Renault are built in the cheap.

Really? Most of what Ive read and heard has been good. Could you explain?

GerardKeating

Brasso wrote: »

Yeah unfortunately the automatic gearbox can increase your CO2 and tax rate, although sometimes the likes of VW's DSG gearbos will lower the emissions.

It seems VW also have some nice software to "reduce" emissions as well.

CJhaughey

Looked at a 2008 Jaguar XF tax disc today, you'd think that a 2.7TD wouldn't be too bad.
€1200 to tax for the year.
I know that the kind of person that buys an XF isn't going to be too worried about the tax but it really surprised me that it was that much.
The Cheap Tax is only really designed to get people into small ****boxes with absurd gearing and EU4-5 emissions that will not last more than 3-4 years before going pop in a cloud of white or black smoke in most peoples typical usage.
How green is that Messrs Gormley and Ryan?

BrianD3

CJhaughey wrote: »

Looked at a 2008 Jaguar XF tax disc today, you'd think that a 2.7TD wouldn't be too bad.
€1200 to tax for the year.
I know that the kind of person that buys an XF isn't going to be too worried about the tax but it really surprised me that it was that much.

Citroen C6 with the same/similar 2.7 diesel is 230 g/km so 2350 to tax. 2350 to tax a 200 bhp diesel saloon :eek:

bmstuff

BrianD3 wrote: »

Citroen C6 with the same/similar 2.7 diesel is 230 g/km so 2350 to tax. 2350 to tax a 200 bhp diesel saloon :eek:

Geez I did not realise.
Especially the C6, a car with a lot of goodies, but pure hip of crap too.
I know one which is on its 3rd engine since the last 18 months
This engine just kills itself with oil starvation.

George Dalton

The 1.6 petrol Insignia is €750 per year to tax. They were one of the victims of the CO2 system. Because of the high tax they are very cheap though, so very often the cost balances out over the term of ownership.

If you aren't doing the type of driving to make a diesel a viable option then your best bet for lower tax in the 2008-2009 bracket is something like a Passat 1.4TSI or even a Honda Civic petrol if you are willing to go for a smaller car. But for either of those you pay more for the car in the first instance....

bmstuff

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Really? Most of what Ive read and heard has been good. Could you explain?

Maybe it is a reliable car I have no idea, but the car is full of cheap plastic trims, carpet and sound isolation is skinny and the car is noisy from inside when driving, boot is big because there is no side trims to hide stuff behind, not a bad looking car from the outside, but very cheap inside, that really puts me off personally.

To me this car has no soul, no personality if you know what I mean
I like to drive cars with a character/personality. Even if it is older, I don't care about 2 or 3 digits on the registration. The car I drive has to put a smile on my face, not just burn gas to get me from A to B.

George Dalton

bmstuff wrote: »

Maybe it is a reliable car I have no idea, but the car is full of cheap plastic trims, carpet and sound isolation is skinny and the car is noisy from inside when driving, boot is big because there is no side trims to hide stuff behind, not a bad looking car from the outside, but very cheap inside, that really puts me off personally.

Compared to what though? Are you comparing like with like? If you look at the other cars in the class the Insignia compares quite well IMO. For example in my opinon the Insignia is miles ahead of both the Mondeo and Avensis in terms of interior fit and finish.

We sell a lot of Insignias and one of the things that people like most about them is the interior. They feel quite upmarket compared to the afore mentioned competitors.

bazz26

A 1.6 petrol Insignia is as slow as a wet week, if your going to be paying €750 in motor tax might as well get something with a half decent engine.

mickdw

CJhaughey wrote: »

Looked at a 2008 Jaguar XF tax disc today, you'd think that a 2.7TD wouldn't be too bad.
€1200 to tax for the year.
I know that the kind of person that buys an XF isn't going to be too worried about the tax but it really surprised me that it was that much.
The Cheap Tax is only really designed to get people into small ****boxes with absurd gearing and EU4-5 emissions that will not last more than 3-4 years before going pop in a cloud of white or black smoke in most peoples typical usage.
How green is that Messrs Gormley and Ryan?

The 2.7 was an early engine for the xf. The much lower co2 3.0 diesel followed and was reportedly better in every way including chapter tax.
I think the 3.0 got down into 750 bracket back in 2008 but I couldn't be sure.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Thanks for all the feedback. Been looking to find a Diesel Insignia instead, but not so much luck so far.
Going to check out an 07 1.9 Grand Vitara tonight which would completely defeat the purpose of changing the car (cheaper to run). Would MPG on it (1.9 Diesel) be any better than my 2.0 Petrol at least? Ive read the suzuki is low 30s, dont know what the Audi does

colm_mcm

You need to step back from this and see what you'll actually achieve by changing car.
It sounds like you're just trying to justify a newer car but without any actual benefit.

Sebastian Dangerfield

colm_mcm wrote: »

You need to step back from this and see what you'll actually achieve by changing car.
It sounds like you're just trying to justify a newer car but without any actual benefit.

No Im definitely buying a new car, just time to upgrade. I can easily afford to run the car Ive got. Our initial thinking (i.e. how I justified it to the wife) was that by upgrading we would get cheaper tax, possibly something more economical, and less chance of breakdowns etc, given the Audi is soon going to be 13 years old.

An 09ish Insigina would tick most of those boxes I had thought. Im now looking at other cars, and am wondering if any of my original criteria apply, that's all. Cheaper tax doesn't seem to apply, so Im wondering if the fuel economy does. It wont sway me for sure either way, just trying to consider all the variables.

colm_mcm

I wouldn't say a diesel vihara or insignia would be less likely to break down than your existing car.

The only car on paper that I think would fit the bill would be a Prius or civic hybrid, But I'm not sure that you'd want one though.

Cupra280

What else do you need in a car? Do you cover much kms annually? Do you need a big boot? Do you carry many passengers, and is so how often? Do you need many isofix spots for child seats?

Diesel is very economical, if you are doing the mileage. Anything over 20,000km annually would normally see a saving.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Cupra280 wrote: »

What else do you need in a car? Do you cover much kms annually? Do you need a big boot? Do you carry many passengers, and is so how often? Do you need many isofix spots for child seats?

Diesel is very economical, if you are doing the mileage. Anything over 20,000km annually would normally see a saving.

Herein lies my original reluctant with a diesel. I caved based on absolutely everyone telling me a diesel is better, but Id be lucky to do 15k kms per annum. I've had the Audi nearly two years, and I haven't done 20k in it yet. Weekend driving only, really...

Im looking for something comfortable that doesn't cost the earth to run or fix(max 2.0), that looks good, and a big boot will be needed in the lifespan of the car, though not necessarily right now. My wife wants to get a Qashqai, but some of the ones Ive looked at go as high as €12k+ for a 2008 which to me is overpriced. Hoping to spend 7ish max, but could go a little higher if needed.

This is what I had picked out, but Ive been talked out of it by a few people on various grounds:
https://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/opel-insignia-1-6i-nct-2017/9821202

Cupra280

Have you looked at the Skoda Octavia?
For ~€7,000, that should get you into a 2008/09. I think that there is both a 1.4lt and a 1.6lt petrol engine. Although, I am unsure what emissions tax band these are in.

galwaytt

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Im looking to upgrade my car, and had been working on the (seemingly incorrect) basis that motor tax is cheaper on cars from 2008 or newer.

I currently drive a 03 automatic petrol 2.0 Audi A4, and the tax is 710 per year. Cheaper upkeep is one of the points I sold to the wife to justify changing the car. Im looking to get an Opel Insignia - I saw one in a garage in Celbridge but according to the disc the tax is 750 per year. I ran both my current reg and the reg of the Insignia on the motor tax website, which confirms it.

Does anyone know why a newer car with a smaller engine could cost more to tax than the guzzler I have?

tbh, I think you already have the cheapest car to own, changing it - for anything - only sees your montly spend go up, not down. That's the nature of Shiney Things

And, when you say 'guzzler', how much of a guzzler is it ??

Sebastian Dangerfield

galwaytt wrote: »

tbh, I think you already have the cheapest car to own, changing it - for anything - only sees your montly spend go up, not down. That's the nature of Shiney Things

And, when you say 'guzzler', how much of a guzzler is it ??

I do like shiny things!

Return trip home, 220 miles-ish, costs around €60-70 in petrol. Its not actually that bad I suppose... My last car, a 1.8 BMW, did it in €40ish, and petrol was more expensive then. The Audi burns lots of oil as well, the sensor light comes on every 800-1000 kms.

To be completely honest, the cost doesn't bother me, but will help in justifying my choice at home. A key factor is an easy life; little things have started to go on the Audi, electrics etc, and not worrying about an NCT for two years is appealing too. Ill be upgrading at some point anyway, so might as well do it while I have the cash to hand.

duffman3833

the Insignia from 09-11 can give issue, its after 11 in the Insignia is whats more reliable and better economy. I was kinda in your shoes a year or so ago. had 04 golf and wanted a >08 car so id get cheaper tax but didn't want the cheapest car out there. I did the math and realized it wasn't worth going for a 08+ car as it would cost more to pay for the 08 car than an 07. So i got a 07 Audi a4 1.9tdi and its been a bullet proof car since (Touch Wood).