Assitance required - VagTacho

heartofwhite

Hi everyone,

So recently bought a second hand car and my mechanic has told me that there has been 100,000km knocked off it. I intend to keep the car and am hoping that someone could please assist me in rectifying the odometer so that it is correct. I am running it through the NCT in a couple of weeks in order to get the two year NCT and I want to have it done by then. Any assistance would be great, please post or PM if you can help! I am based in Wexford but am in South Dublin during the week.

_Kaiser_

It wasn't a 06 Passat by any chance was it?

heartofwhite

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It wasn't a 06 Passat by any chance was it?

Hi no it was not.

CiniO

So you want to clock the car forward by 100,000km.
Why would you want to do that if you don't mind me asking?

I'm sure there are places that do that, but have in mind that interfering with your odometer is illegal.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/14/enacted/en/html

heartofwhite

CiniO wrote: »

So you want to clock the car forward by 100,000km.
Why would you want to do that if you don't mind me asking?

I'm sure there are places that do that, but have in mind that interfering with your odometer is illegal.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/14/enacted/en/html

The reason i want to do it is to have the car reflect the correct odometer reading. In addition, the nct disc now displays the kms on it and i want it to be correct. If I sell the car on, I want everythimg to be above board. I did not realise it was illegal, i believed it to be illegal if you knowing sell a clocked car. Hence why i want it rectified.

heartofwhite

What should I do then?

CiniO

heartofwhite wrote: »

What should I do then?

What I would do is just keep it as it is.
Get a written statement from your mechanic who claims it was clocked back by 100,000km. Keep that, and if you ever decide to sell a car, inform the buyer.
That's probably best option IMO.

If you decide to clock it forward, you are firstly committing something illegal, and secondly might make problems when selling car in the future if someone discovers it was clocked, but there might be no proof you actually clocked it forward.

heartofwhite

CiniO wrote: »

What I would do is just keep it as it is.
Get a written statement from your mechanic who claims it was clocked back by 100,000km. Keep that, and if you ever decide to sell a car, inform the buyer.
That's probably best option IMO.

If you decide to clock it forward, you are firstly committing something illegal, and secondly might make problems when selling car in the future if someone discovers it was clocked, but there might be no proof you actually clocked it forward.

Perhaps thats best. I dont want to get into bother but regardless of how well I look after the car, nobody will touch it if I say it was clocked! Dont get me wrong, I would not sell the car without telling buyers first, just a bit of a crap situation to be in. Plus not sure what will happen in the NCT centre now

heartofwhite

heartofwhite wrote: »

Perhaps thats best. I dont want to get into bother but regardless of how well I look after the car, nobody will touch it if I say it was clocked! Dont get me wrong, I would not sell the car without telling buyers first, just a bit of a crap situation to be in. Plus not sure what will happen in the NCT centre now

I rang Dundrum guards just now and they said that it is ok to change it back to the correct reading under the good faith aspect of the Road Traffic Act 2014. With this in mind, can anybody help me please?

heartofwhite

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Toyotafanboi

heartofwhite wrote: »

I rang Dundrum guards just now and they said that it is ok to change it back to the correct reading under the good faith aspect of the Road Traffic Act 2014. With this in mind, can anybody help me please?

i would have expected as much. it was a typical over-reactive, but not unexpected, knee jerk response from another poster to suggest that putting the car back correct would be illegal. What judge would convict you for un-clocking a car?

realistically i'd imagine a VW dealer could probably amend this for you, or one of the many "mileage correction" outfits on donedeal;
http://www.donedeal.ie/othermotor-for-sale/digital-dash-fixer/8076387?offset=10
http://cars.donedeal.ie/caraccessories-for-sale/instrument-cluster-repairs-amp-conversions-/10387755?offset=13

alternatively, if you went to sell the car, just advertise it with the real mileage (dashboard display + 100k kms), and inform any prospective purchaser that the instrument cluster went faulty and you replaced it with a second hand one which had lower mileages attached. you are telling a white lie, but being fully above board about the real mileage.

may also be worth double checking your service history now the car has a much higher mileage. is the timing belt still in good order or is it due replacement? same with fuel filter etc.

heartofwhite

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i would have expected as much. it was a typical over-reactive, but not unexpected, knee jerk response from another poster to suggest that putting the car back correct would be illegal. What judge would convict you for un-clocking a car?

realistically i'd imagine a VW dealer could probably amend this for you, or one of the many "mileage correction" outfits on donedeal;
http://www.donedeal.ie/othermotor-for-sale/digital-dash-fixer/8076387?offset=10
http://cars.donedeal.ie/caraccessories-for-sale/instrument-cluster-repairs-amp-conversions-/10387755?offset=13

alternatively, if you went to sell the car, just advertise it with the real mileage (dashboard display + 100k kms), and inform any prospective purchaser that the instrument cluster went faulty and you replaced it with a second hand one which had lower mileages attached. you are telling a white lie, but being fully above board about the real mileage.

may also be worth double checking your service history now the car has a much higher mileage. is the timing belt still in good order or is it due replacement? same with fuel filter etc.

I am going to get the Timing Belt done on it alright - cannot take the chance. I see it as an investment anyway, I do a lot of miles annually.

I had thought of selling it with the note that the reading is wrong but I am too honest for all that. In addition, I tend to build up quite a comprehensive service history and I want this to reflect the proper readings from now on.

I might contact the links and see but was hoping for somebody on the forum to help out. Thanks for the reply.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i would have expected as much. it was a typical over-reactive, but not unexpected, knee jerk response from another poster to suggest that putting the car back correct would be illegal. What judge would convict you for un-clocking a car?

Well, the act is quite clear:

(4) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a defence to show that at the time of the alleged offence the person was acting in good faith in order to test, repair or replace the odometer of the mechanically propelled vehicle.

In my opinion clocking forward is not testing, neither repairing nor replacing.

I'm always trying to use logic and if it's clearly written like that, it means it's illegal to clock forward. For me always white is white and black is black.

Fact that some garda station said they wouldn't pursue it further for clocking forward doesnt' mean other garda station couldn't take it further to court.

I don't know exactly how courts work in Ireland, but in general I would have though they have to obey the law which in this case is quite clear.

Toyotafanboi

CiniO wrote: »

Well, the act is quite clear:


In my opinion clocking forward is not testing, neither repairing nor replacing.

I'm always trying to use logic and if it's clearly written like that, it means it's illegal to clock forward. For me always white is white and black is black.

Fact that some garda station said they wouldn't pursue it further for clocking forward doesnt' mean other garda station couldn't take it further to court.

I don't know exactly how courts work in Ireland, but in general I would have though they have to obey the law which in this case is quite clear.

for someone who is trying to use logic, your logic doesn't seem to be working.

a criminal clocked this mans car, to deceive him.

this man has unwittingly purchased this car from a criminal and has been deceived into paying more for a car than he should have.

the owner now wants to make things right, to ensure no further harm is done. he wants to undo the criminal damage done. and you are saying, to undo the criminal damage and re-instate it with the truth is somehow wrong?

indeed, clearly to you black is black and white is white and following instructions to a tee like that probably got you a very good grade in 6th class maths tests and makes you an ideal pawn for some corporation but true intelligence is questioning and challenging things, using and applying diligence within logic.

indeed you know nothing of the Irish court system, in fact, neither do i. However, i can not see any garda or a judge pursuing a man for rectifying and making good the damages of a crime carried out upon him.

jimgoose

CiniO wrote: »

...I don't know exactly how courts work in Ireland, but in general I would have though they have to obey the law which in this case is quite clear.

Ireland is a Common Law jurisdiction. Most of the Continent is under the Civil Law system, descended from the old Leges Barbarorum as codified by the Romans back in the day. One of the main differences between the two is the notion of Legal Precedent is given great weight and binding under Common Law, as a result of which the judiciary have considerable freedom to interpret legislation.

In short: In Ireland, a judge is free to conclude that a dog with a mallet rammed up his hole wouldn't have intended a law to penalise someone for seeking to do right, and act accordingly.

heartofwhite

The guards saying it is ok is good enough for me. I am just really hoping somebody can help me.

Toyotafanboi

You should drop a pm to "George Dalton" on this site. He seems to be very knowledgable in relation to VAG cars, he may be able to help.

heartofwhite

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You should drop a pm to "George Dalton" on this site. He seems to be very knowledgable in relation to VAG cars, he may be able to help.

It was Dalton's who were good enough to confirm it in the first place for me.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

for someone who is trying to use logic, your logic doesn't seem to be working.

a criminal clocked this mans car, to deceive him.

this man has unwittingly purchased this car from a criminal and has been deceived into paying more for a car than he should have.

the owner now wants to make things right, to ensure no further harm is done. he wants to undo the criminal damage done. and you are saying, to undo the criminal damage and re-instate it with the truth is somehow wrong?

It's not logic what you are talking about here - it's common sense.
But law and common sense sometimes don't go together.

OP asked about clocking his car forward.
There is a clear regulation which states:

14. (1) A person shall not interfere or attempt to interfere with the odometer of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

Is clocking forward you odometer classified as interfering with the odometer - yes it is - you won't deny it.

Now - there's another part to this legislation:

(4) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a defence to show that at the time of the alleged offence the person was acting in good faith in order to test, repair or replace the odometer of the mechanically propelled vehicle.

If OP was caught clocking it forward could he say that we was interfering with odometer to
a) test - no, he couldn't.
b) repair - no, he couldn't.
c) replace - no, he couldn't.

It is the logic here and you can hardly find any other answer to this.

Anything else is common sense.

indeed, clearly to you black is black and white is white and following instructions to a tee like that probably got you a very good grade in 6th class maths tests and makes you an ideal pawn for some corporation

Yes, I was always good at match, physics, etc... On the other hand I was always quite poor on literature, arts, etc...
And no - I don't work for corporation.

but true intelligence is questioning and challenging things, using and applying diligence within logic.

That's what OP did - asked gards what do they thing about it.
And fair play to him.
But it doesn't mean that after what they answered, suddenly clocking your car forward becomes legal.

indeed you know nothing of the Irish court system, in fact, neither do i. However, i can not see any garda or a judge pursuing a man for rectifying and making good the damages of a crime carried out upon him.

If this ended up in court, I believe judge could easily charge him for that if he wanted.

CiniO

heartofwhite wrote: »

The guards saying it is ok is good enough for me. I am just really hoping somebody can help me.

There were plenty of places doing "mileage correction" before those regulations came in.
Just google and try to contact them - maybe some of them are still in business.
First thing google found for me

heartofwhite

CiniO wrote: »

There were plenty of places doing "mileage correction" before those regulations came in.
Just google and try to contact them - maybe some of them are still in business.
First thing google found for me

Cheers for that link - missed it in my search. I will give them a bell and see what they say!

CiniO

jimgoose wrote: »

Ireland is a Common Law jurisdiction. Most of the Continent is under the Civil Law system, descended from the old Leges Barbarorum as codified by the Romans back in the day. One of the main differences between the two is the notion of Legal Precedent is given great weight and binding under Common Law, as a result of which the judiciary have considerable freedom to interpret legislation.

In short: In Ireland, a judge is free to conclude that a dog with a mallet rammed up his hole wouldn't have intended a law to penalise someone for seeking to do right, and act accordingly.

Yes, I understand that, but recent news about requirement to have breath test report in both English and Irish seems to show, that judges generally don't go by common sense, but just a letter of the law.