Legality of School Policy

GM228

I'm concerned over the legality of a school policy introduced recently as follows:-

A.

As a result of a teasing incident a group of girls have been told that they can only play with each other from now on basically, more importantly it's the wording used that I'm concerned with:-

Ms. X is not permitted to play with boys. (is this gender discrimination?)

Ms. X is not permitted to play with kids who are younger or older. (age discrimination?)

Ms. X can not play with anyone from another class (segregation?)

In other words the various Ms. Xs of the group can only play with each other, this was implemented without looking into or investigating any complaints of teasing and is to be the case "from now on"!

B.

Siblings are not permitted to interact with each other under any circumstances in class or in the yard (limiting kids rights to interaction?).

I'm sure I've read somewhere that there is an EU directive which specifies that kids cannot not be segregated or told who they can/can't play with although I'm not 100% certain but limiting "from now on" a kids interaction with other kids based on age/gender/class etc must surely be an infringement of their rights or have I got this all wrong?

Any advice from a legal point of view would be greatly appreciated as I'm finding it difficuly to find anything concrete on this either way.

P.S This posting is on begalf of a friend and not specifically an issue I'm having myself.

MarkAnthony

Why are they all married? Is this what these young kids in Wedding dresses is all about here?

Carawaystick

If its a catholic managed school, they are able to discriminate against girls, it's their ethos....

GM228

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Why are they all married? Is this what these young kids in Wedding dresses is all about here?

Well spotted and amended!

One eyed Jack

GM228 wrote: »

I'm concerned over the legality of a school policy introduced recently as follows:-

...

Any advice from a legal point of view would be greatly appreciated as I'm finding it difficuly to find anything concrete on this either way.

John

Without knowing the whole story, any sort of advice you'd get here would be useless to you tbh.

Carawaystick wrote: »

If its a catholic managed school, they are able to discriminate against girls, it's their ethos....

First I've ever heard of that?

GM228

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Without knowing the whole story, any sort of advice you'd get here would be useless to you tbh.





First I've ever heard of that?

No further details are required, I'm asking about the legality of the segregation and policy for siblings not being allowed to interact, how/why it came about isn't the issue, the issue is is it legal or not to do that?

GerardKeating

GM228 wrote: »

Ms. X is not permitted to play with boys. (is this gender discrimination?)

Discrimination against the Boys or the Girl.

GM228 wrote: »

Ms. X is not permitted to play with kids who are younger or older. (age discrimination?)

Generally Age discrimination would not always apply to minors

GM228 wrote: »

Ms. X can not play with anyone from another class (segregation?)

Are the class segregation on colour/race/gender?

Your post seems to imply that this policy is some form of disciplinary measure. If this is a disproportionate respond, you might be able to challenge on this based, but a "teasing incident" might (rightly) be viewed as a very serious offence..

GM228 wrote: »

No further details are required, I'm asking about the legality of the segregation and policy for siblings not being allowed to interact, how/why it came about isn't the issue, the issue is is it legal or not to do that?

John

But there is, if the school does this for some random/arbitrary reason, there would be grounds to challenge, but if there is a good reason.

BabySlam

Start with the understanding that the school acts in place of the parents while the kids are there. So "legality" is confined to what would be also illegal for a parent to do (approximately!). The "ruling" is perhaps designed to solve some problem as the school see it. Your best bet would be to communicate with the school to assist them in monitoring the success of the new policies. They are co-parenting in a way, so certainly should have the kids best interests at heart. I know a few teachers who really truely love the kids they teach.

There are ways of having oversight of what a school is doing for example as or through a parent representative on the school board. I hope this helps.

One eyed Jack

GM228 wrote: »

No further details are required, I'm asking about the legality of the segregation and policy for siblings not being allowed to interact, how/why it came about isn't the issue, the issue is is it legal or not to do that?

John

If it's a child protection issue, then legality or otherwise of the new policy simply doesn't come into it IMO. I'd suggest you seek the advice of a solicitor regarding the specifics, but from what you've presented above, I can envision plenty of scenarios where a school BoM might need to implement such a policy, and I can't see anything illegal in it.

GM228

GerardKeating wrote: »

Discrimination against the Boys or the Girl.



Generally Age discrimination would not always apply to minors



Are the class segregation on colour/race/gender?

Your post seems to imply that this policy is some form of disciplinary measure. If this is a disproportionate respond, you might be able to challenge on this based, but a "teasing incident" might (rightly) be viewed as a very serious offence..



But there is, if the school does this for some random/arbitrary reason, there would be grounds to challenge, but if there is a good reason.

First and foremost I'll say I agree that a teasing (or any other) incident is treated as very serious, I never suggested otherwise! I'll also point out that I am impartial in this but IMO it was trivial as incidents go, and yes I do understand that pupils and parents would see that differently.

Anyway despite the fact both parties of girls were involved in the incident and both have the same accusations the school have effectively punished one side only-the school have admitted that they didn't find any evidence of bullying etc (although they say they didn't investigate at the time) but yet still punish one side in this case neither side should have received any discipline.

It would appear this policy was implemented solely on the accusations rather than any investigation or findings.

Also older friends (these are young kids involved) who "look out" for the younger kids are no longer allowed to do so, making the younger kids (the Ms. Xs) feel alone and seperated. Close friends (from oter classes) and family members are no longer allowed to even talk to them-either way surely that is an infringement of their rights?

Even had they been proved to have bullied or teased another child to exclude a snall number of children from the rest of the school children is wrong and I think you can't compare a parent excluding their kids playing with certain children to a school excluding them from playing with ALL children!

With regards to the second issue of siblings not allowed to mix this is a seperate issue not related which the school simply say "that's the way it is".

Again there has to be some sort of legalities involves in all this? A solicitor is indeed a good idea but they arn't always correct and their "interpretation" most likely will be different to people here which is why I asked for opinions/advice.

byhookorbycrook

One of the problems with younger children playing with older children can be that the younger child relies heavily on the older one and will be lost when they leave the school.

As to telling children not to play together, it's not ideal, but some children just rub each other the wrong way and fight/argue/push/kick/tease each other and for a while need some "time out" to work this out. As well as the upset this causes the children, it means the teacher is constantly involved in trying to investigate every single playtime squabble after every single break. Nothing would ever be taught!As an adult, I know how to be "civil but strange" - in other words be perfectly mannerly to a person I would not befriend as a best buddy. Small children don't have that "filter" and sometimes ,staying away from each other is better for all concerned.

Carawaystick

One eyed Jack wrote: »

First I've ever heard of that?

You are aware the catholic church is a fundamentally sexist organisation right? Females cannot become the leader of the organisation, nor any significant part of the hierarchy?

As a result, catholic run schools are allowed impose their sexist ways on schools the manage as part of their ethos, same as discriminating against gay teachers, divorced teachers etc.

One eyed Jack

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are aware the catholic church is a fundamentally sexist organisation right? Females cannot become the leader of the organisation, nor any significant part of the hierarchy?

As a result, catholic run schools are allowed impose their sexist ways on schools the manage as part of their ethos, same as discriminating against gay teachers, divorced teachers etc.

That's the equivalent of suggesting that because a man can't join a convent, it's discrimination.

Discrimination against girls, because they are girls, isn't any part of any Catholic ethos school policy that I'm aware of. If you have any evidence of same, then genuinely I'd like to see it.

Peregrinus

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are aware the catholic church is a fundamentally sexist organisation right? Females cannot become the leader of the organisation, nor any significant part of the hierarchy?

As a result, catholic run schools are allowed impose their sexist ways on schools the manage as part of their ethos, same as discriminating against gay teachers, divorced teachers etc.

All schools are allowed to discriminate on the grounds of sex; the Catholic church gets no special exemption. Had it completely escaped your notice that there are single-sex schools which are not Catholic?

The exemption you're thinking of is available to all religious schools, not just Catholic schools. It allows discrimination on the basis of religious denomination (but not gender or other grounds) in admission decisions (but not other decisions).

There is a second exemption in the Employment Equality Act, which obviously is of no relevance here (since students are not employees). For what it's worth it, too, allows discrimination on the basis of religion, but not gender or other grounds . And, again, it's not unique to Catholic schools.

I get that you are exercised about these exemptions, but they have no relevance to the OP's problem, and you probably won't do the cause any favours by appearing to try and hijack the thread she has started in order to discuss your concerns instead of hers. Plus, your opposition to these provisions would probably be more persuasive if you had some notion of what they actually were.

the world wonders

Here: http://www.education.ie/en/Parents/Information/Complaints-Bullying-Child-Protection-Discrimination/Complaints-Procedures.pdf