Modular home in back garden with rear access?

Idbatterim

Given how off the wall the dublin housing situation, the family home has a long rear garden with vehicular access and garage to rear of property. Is it legal to put a modular home there or convert the garage to a studio / apartment?

you would wonder if this is part of the solution to the problem here, allow these modular homes in backgardens of a certain size. If they have rear or side access or maybe even through the house wouldnt be an issue, if it was a family member living in it...

embracingLife

if it was that easy, every garden in the country would have another prefab home in it!

I'm referring more to planning laws. Look at the whole shoe box type apartments that were built in the past/Priory Hall fire regs etc. What would be the building standards etc with building ad hoc in people's big back gardens etc. Ok you did mention "modular home" which would probably be built by a reputable factory etc but what about all other mickey mouse builders doing similar works without adhering to planning permission etc?!
How would these extra buildings be inspected by council officials? I'm not making an excuse for council's failings etc but planning laws are there for a reason.

Idbatterim

if it was that easy, every garden in the country would have another prefab home in it!

with the outrageous current situation, maybe they should allow it for several years! My current home and also my grannys home up the road, have stupidly big gardens, huge amounts of homes here have massive gardens than cant be accessed, why not do something useful with them?

We have a serious, serious issue in dublin in particular, large amounts of people dont want to leave here. the government wont put in a decent transport system and they wont allow higher buildings and smaller units (which they definetly should, its a stepping stone, if you dont want to live in a smaller unit, stay put). So where do we go from here?

MarkAnthony

The situation in Dublin is no where near as bad as made out.

It's bad for people on RA and those too frieghtened of moving anywhere without rock or knock in the name. (Yes I'm stealing that! :pac:)

Haznat

Anyone on the minimum wage or anywhere near it aren't having a great time either.

Idbatterim

The situation in Dublin is no where near as bad as made out.

Really, are you aware of the properties going up on daft and being taken down in under half an hour as the people posting the ad are being inundated with calls and / or emails?

You would think checking daft once or twice a day would suffice. Not for what I was looking for in Dublin 14 it didnt anyway, decent houses that were coming up at a reasonable price were going up on daft and being taken down nearly immediately. It got to the stage where I was checking every half hour or less...

MarkAnthony

Idbatterim wrote: »

Really, are you aware of the properties going up on daft and being taken down in under half an hour as the people posting the ad are being inundated with calls and / or emails?

You would think checking daft once or twice a day would suffice. Not for what I was looking for in Dublin 14 it didnt anyway, decent houses that were coming up at a reasonable price were going up on daft and being taken down nearly immediately. It got to the stage where I was checking every half hour or less...

It's expensive, it's requires a bit of work and organisation but there is no crisis. I only say this to save you expense of having a very fancy shed in your back garden.

People who can afford to be choosey are being. People who can't are grabbing properties in case they don't get somethig else which is creating a false sense of urgency.

If you're looking for a room/flat you send out 50 emails, maybe arrnage 10 viewings and probably don't turn up to 5 of those. You take 1 place. So if you go on enquiries it's 50 times worse than it is, viewings 10 times and queues 5 times.

Yes certain So Co Dublin areas are experiancing high demand, many places aren't.

athtrasna

Mod note:

Please stay on topic (modular home in back garden). Further off topic posts may be deleted.

Thanks

MarkAnthony

Apologies OP.

In on topic form - you'd need planning permission - as indicated I don't think it would pay for it self in the medium term either. You'd be better off renting a room and trying to make it as self contained as possible while not falling foul of the Rent a Room scheme's cut offs in relation to granny flats etc.

riclad

MY friend converted the garage 40 x 10 , 400sq ft into a bedroom,
put in a front door , in 2008 .
with a small ensuite bathroom,
he not apply for planning permission as ,
the four walls and roof were already there .
He put in 2 pvc 6x4ft windows at the front and the rear of the building.
he did it all himself . There,s a door at the back too.

Apart from getting an electrician to connect 5 power points to the meter.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html

Generally, you will not need planning permission for:

Building an extension to the rear of the house which does not increase the original floor area of the house by more than 40 square metres and is not higher than the house. The extension should not reduce the open space at the back of the house to less than 25 square metres which must be reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of your house. If your house has been extended before, the floor area of the extension you are now proposing and the floor area of any previous extension (including those for which you previously got planning permission) must not exceed 40 square metres.

ted1

riclad wrote: »

MY friend converted the garage 40 x 10 , 400sq ft into a bedroom,
with its own front door , in 2008 .
with a small ensuite bathroom,
he did not apply for planning permission as ,
the four walls and roof were already there .
He put in 2 pvc 6x4ft windows at the front and the rear of the building.
he did it all himself .
Apart from getting an electrician to connect 5 power points to the meter.

Your friend won't be able to sell his house and mat yet have too put it back as it was.

riclad

HE had it inspected by a council planning official,in 2010 .
he was told he would need no planning permission.
he has a large back garden .
it only cost a few grand to build as he did 95 per cent of the work .
installed all the doors ,and windows .
he did not enlarge the garage in height or width ,
he put on a new roof,floor, etc
he might need to get a cert from an architect if he wishs to sells the house ,
i think .
he has no intention to sell it .

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

Your friend won't be able to sell his house and mat yet have too put it back as it was.

What will stop him selling it, I'd see the conversion as a positive if I was buying the house. Very handy to have for visitors or possibly even rent it under the rent a room scheme.

The garage was already built so either had or didn't need planning.

ted1

Analia Acidic Star wrote: »

What will stop him selling it, I'd see the conversion as a positive if I was buying the house. Very handy to have for visitors or possibly even rent it under the rent a room scheme.

The garage was already built so either had or didn't need planning.

Because Banks won't release mortgages for places that don't comply with planning permission

Angry bird

The garage conversion is exempt from planning and the person can get a declaration from the Council at any time to that effect to satisfy banks. Re modular homes in rear gardens it's a good idea for family members and would get planning.

ted1

Angry bird wrote: »

The garage conversion is exempt from planning and the person can get a declaration from the Council at any time to that effect to satisfy banks. Re modular homes in rear gardens it's a good idea for family members and would get planning.

No it's not, any change to the front of a house requires planning, also many garages don't have the required height

Angry bird

ted1 wrote: »

No it's not, any change to the front of a house requires planning, also many garages don't have the required height

Wrong. Don't believe me read up the exemption on extensions, garage conversion is in the description. Anyway its off topic...

ted1

Angry bird wrote: »

Wrong. Don't believe me read up the exemption on extensions, garage conversion is in the description. Anyway its off topic...

The Op has said his friend added a window to the front. That requires planning

athtrasna

ted1 wrote: »

The Op has said his friend added a window to the front. That requires planning

Not the OP. Another poster. Thus off topic.

Angry bird

ted1 wrote: »

The Op has said his friend added a window to the front. That requires planning

Maybe. There is an exemption for minor alterations to dwellings which the window may or may not fall under. Section 4-1-h of the 2000 planning act if you're interested.

Angry bird

I think councils should be supportive of modular homes for family members in back gardens and should amend relevant policies if necessary to reflect this.

riclad

I,M not a planning expert,
i think a garage conversion is exempt,
if it complys with building regulations,and fire safety ,
re insulation, exits in case of fires ,
eg can windows be opened in case of emergency .
The planning official went inside the garage ,out the front, and the back .
And inspected it as an extension/conversion .
I know theres rules re a room must be a certain height to qualify as a
bedroom if the house was to be sold at some point.
I think councils treat a modular building the same as any new building or a new extension under the existing planning laws .
From watching grand designs i think the advantage of modular homes is you can order exactly the design and size of unit
you want .
And they can be built in a short time versus conventional block, mortar buildings .

Angry bird

riclad wrote: »

I,M not a planning expert,
i think a garage conversion is exempt,
if it complys with building regulations,and fire safety ,
re insulation, exits in case of fires ,
eg can windows be opened in case of emergency .
The planning official went inside the garage ,out the front, and the back .
And inspected it as an extension/conversion .
I know theres rules re a room must be a certain height to qualify as a
bedroom if the house was to be sold at some point.
I think councils treat a modular building the same as any new building or a new extension under the existing planning laws .
From watching grand designs i think the advantage of modular homes is you can order exactly the design and size of unit
you want .
And they can be built in a short time versus conventional block, mortar buildings .

I think it's a myth to say councils would not grant planning to modular homes, they would be wary of it if it looks like a flimsy or temporary structure but nowadays they can be built to last.

Gumbo

Idbatterim wrote: »

Given how off the wall the dublin housing situation, the family home has a long rear garden with vehicular access and garage to rear of property. Is it legal to put a modular home there or convert the garage to a studio / apartment?

you would wonder if this is part of the solution to the problem here, allow these modular homes in backgardens of a certain size. If they have rear or side access or maybe even through the house wouldnt be an issue, if it was a family member living in it...

It requires Planning Permission.
It needs to comply to current Building Regulations.
It would need to be connected to the existing house with permanent access between each of them. Dublin City Council supports the application for Granny flats where a requirement is shown but they must comply with particular conditions.

riclad

I presume a modular home is like the ones as seen on grand designs,
ie the wall,s ,floor, roof are built in a factory ,prefab,
and assembled on site in a week or 2 .
AS in my previous links if the garden is big ,
a small extension may not need planning permission .

Gumbo

riclad wrote: »

I presume a modular home is like the ones as seen on grand designs,
ie the wall,s ,floor, roof are built in a factory ,prefab,
and assembled on site in a week or 2 .
AS in my previous links if the garden is big ,
a small extension may not need planning permission .

that's assuming you connect it to the main dwelling, and it becomes ancillary to the main dwelling.

no matter how big the garden is, and how small the new build is, if its detached from the dwelling and used for habitation, it requires planning and will most likely get refused unless its connected to the main dwelling in some way.

This is Dublin City Councils stance on the issue :

Please be advised that according to the City Development Plan 2011 – 2017, ancillary family accommodation (granny flats) refers to a sub-division / extension of a single dwelling unit to accommodate a member of an immediate family for a temporary period e.g. elderly parent. Dublin City Council will, in principle, favourably consider applications for ancillary family accommodation (granny flats) provided the planning authority is satisfied that:
a) there is a valid case, including details of the relationship between the occupants of the main dwelling house and the occupant(s) of the ancillary family accommodation
b) it is not a separate detached dwelling unit, and direct access is provided to the rest of the house

kceire

kceire wrote: »

that's assuming you connect it to the main dwelling, and it becomes ancillary to the main dwelling.

no matter how big the garden is, and how small the new build is, if its detached from the dwelling and used for habitation, it requires planning and will most likely get refused unless its connected to the main dwelling in some way.

Seomra specialise in building these seperate detached rooms so it's obviously possible.

As for habitation, well it could always become an office if needed (during the sale of the house for instance) rather than a place where someone sleeps

Gumbo

Analia Acidic Star wrote: »

Seomra specialise in building these seperate detached rooms so it's obviously possible.

As for habitation, well it could always become an office if needed (during the sale of the house for instance) rather than a place where someone sleeps

It's not possible. They are selling you a shed and making it look like a habitable room. Legally you cannot do it.

But yes, you could always just convert it back if selling but it would be such a waste to remove kitchens etc
You also have to be wary of complaints made to planning enforcement.

alastair

kceire wrote: »

It's not possible. They are selling you a shed and making it look like a habitable room. Legally you cannot do it.

But yes, you could always just convert it back if selling but it would be such a waste to remove kitchens etc
You also have to be wary of complaints made to planning enforcement.

No need to remove any kitchens or bathrooms when selling - perfectly acceptable to have both for a garden studio/office. Bitter neighbours complaining would be a concern admittedly.

Gumbo

alastair wrote: »

No need to remove any kitchens or bathrooms when selling - perfectly acceptable to have both for a garden studio/office. Bitter neighbours complaining would be a concern admittedly.

Depends on the LA, DCC have conditioned out shower rooms from "Domestic Sheds" or "garden rooms" which people have tried to lodge.

Plan Ref 2597/15 is one example ive came accross. http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=2631478

3. The shower room within the log cabin shall be permanently omitted and details shall be submitted to the Planning Department within 8 weeks of the final decision date confirming the shower room’s removal Reason: In the interests of orderly development and residential amenity

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Depends on the LA, DCC have conditioned out shower rooms from "Domestic Sheds" or "garden rooms" which people have tried to lodge.

Plan Ref 2597/15 is one example ive came accross. http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=2631478

That's probably the strangest thing to omit as lots of people have a shower in their garage if they work in dirty jobs so that they can shower before entering the house etc.