Pleading guilty and buying a non conviction

Peppa Pig

I'm just wondering if Easons sell cigarettes to another minor will this case be taken into account if the judge strikes out the charge, or can you now buy off a charge for €2230

RETAILER Eason has agreed to donate €1,000 to charity in order to avoid a court conviction for selling cigarettes to a minor.....

The prosecution was brought by the Health Service Executive (HSE) and the company pleaded guilty to the charge......

Adjourning the case for three weeks, he said he would strike out the charge if the costs were paid and €1,000 was donated to the suicide-prevention charity Pieta House.

Indo article
I can see how sensible the outcome is, but how can they be not convicted if they pleaded guilty? Or can we now avoid penalty points (for example) if we donate enough to charity?

BasedHobbes

Allowing a charitable donation in place of a conviction is a longstanding practice in the Court. The registrars record it IIRC.

Pro Hoc Vice

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I'm just wondering if Easons sell cigarettes to another minor will this case be taken into account if the judge strikes out the charge, or can you now buy off a charge for €2230
Indo article
I can see how sensible the outcome is, but how can they be not convicted if they pleaded guilty? Or can we now avoid penalty points (for example) if we donate enough to charity?

The reason a person who pleads guilty can avoid conviction is the probation of offenders Act 1907. It technically can be given more than once. It is often used in strict liability offences where the person is guilty but had no intention to break the law.

The Act is excluded from being used in a number of offences for example drink driving.

Peregrinus

It's not just for Easons. An early guilty plea, a co-operative approach and evidence of prompt action to address the underlying problem always goes well with a defendant in court. Particularly a first offender will often be able to get no conviction recorded in these circumstances. The payment of money is not necessarily involved; it depends on the nature of the offence and the nature of the corrective action required.*

Doesn't work so much for motoring offences, though. Careless driving is not seen as the kind of social problem that can be addressed effectively by such an approach.

* [On the other hand, it could involve a great deal of money. I remember a case from some years back where quite a well-known member of quite a well-know band was in court for possession of a quantity of a controlled substance larger than could be intended for his own consumption. In the boot of his car. In a pub car-park. In the company of a bunch of friends and hangers-on. The charge was possession with intent to supply. It was an open-and-shut case. A conviction was going to keep him out of the US, which would have, um, implications for the trajectory of his career.

A battery of seniors, juniors, solicitors etc attended. The lead senior stood up to indicate a guilty plea, make an acknowledgment of the facts, a fulsome indication of remorse, a firm purpose of amendment, etc, etc. Defendant acutely aware of his responsibility as a public figure, of his influence on young people, of the scourge of drug abuse. In fact, so conscious of this latter problem that he proposed to make a donation of five thousand pounds to the Coolmine Therapeutic Centre . . .

District Justice: I'm sorry, Mr X, I didn't quite catch that. Did you say "twenty-five thousand pounds"?

Senior [without missing a beat, or glancing around for instructions]: Yes, Justice, twenty-five thousand pounds.

The Probation Act was applied.]

Fred Swanson

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MarkAnthony

This is a case of a company but it stems back to Ireland, yet again, being behind every other nation in Europe in relation to criminal rehabilitation. As as been pointed out out law on this is from 1907. We've STILL no spent convictions legislation.

Is it fair that someone who makes a stupid mistake in Ireland is punished for the rest of their lives as opposed to no other country in Europe? I know we like the Catholic guilt thing here but still.

People frequently lambast Judges for not thinking outside the box. Well I suppose it's ironic enough that this time they've thought very much inside the box, the poor box. (see what I did there?)

Claw Hammer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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It would make the company more likely to challenge the case and try to get off on a technicality. Doing this may expose a loophole that others can exploit. The result is a lot of court time used up and nobody punished at all. The poor box is pragmatic as the company usually wants to keep a clean sheet and won't let the offence happen again.

Fred Swanson

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MarkAnthony

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Hardly this is one area which is equal opportunity.

Ah sure Judge he's had a hard life and turning it around. A criminal conviction will undermine that...

Ah sure judge he's a good boy from a good family this was a one off example of the poor judgement of youth...

johnnyskeleton

The court poor box predates the Probation Act and is separate to it. It would seem not to apply where there is a mandatory punishment such as a disqualification and arguably this would also apply to penalty points cases. The rules of the district court expressly allow a Judge not to enter a conviction.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It just seems a case of auction justice where the very rich can escape punishment whereas a mere peasant would be made feel the full wrath of the law.

It is far more common to be applied to people of low income with €100 donations etc. Its also usually applied in trivial cases such as drunk and disorderly charges.

In this case, Eason is a limited company so what exactly are they avoiding in terms of escaping justice?

Peregrinus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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He'd have been stuffed. I don't think you can appeal a conviction if you have pleaded guilty, can you? He could have appealed against the severity of whatever sentence the justice had imposed, but it was the mere fact of a conviction which was going to keep him out of the US.

johnnyskeleton

Peregrinus wrote: »

He'd have been stuffed. I don't think you can appeal a conviction if you have pleaded guilty, can you? He could have appealed against the severity of whatever sentence the justice had imposed, but it was the mere fact of a conviction which was going to keep him out of the US.

Probation act/poor box can be applied as part of severity appeal.

4ensic15

Peregrinus wrote: »

He'd have been stuffed. I don't think you can appeal a conviction if you have pleaded guilty, can you? .

Yes you can. The appeal operates to stay the conviction. It is not unknown for people to agree to plead guilty to some offences in return for others being dropped, then to appeal and plead not guilty.

JonJones

I know some people thought this guy bought his suspended sentence and were pretty annoyed at the outcome

MarkAnthony

JonJones wrote: »

I know some people thought this guy bought his suspended sentence and were pretty annoyed at the outcome

IIRC it was required (by legislation) that Judges take into account compensation. Thankfully I think that's been over turned.