Right or Wrong? What To Do Next??

LegacyUser

I'm a male in my late 30's, I have this friend I'll call Joe.

Myself and Joe have been friends for over 20 years, very close ......... now Joe has another long-term friend I'll call Paul. Joe and Paul were friends before myself and Joe were (they went to school together) and are also extremely close.
There has always been an uneasy relationship between myself and Paul as Paul is quite possessive over Joe calling him "MY best friend" etc. which I've always laughed off ......... Joe has handled this quite well making it quite clear that he is as close to me as he is to Paul and could never choose between us etc. etc. ........... the funny thing is Joe has always been quite obsessive over me and can get very jealous on night's out when I introduce him to other friends of mine, he always goes out of his way to emphasise what good friends we are ........ I've always found this embarrassing as it's very juvenile but I've never said anything to Joe about it as he's sensitive and I know it would hurt him badly if I told him to stop acting like a "jealous girlfriend" so instead I've made excuses for him over the years like "ah that's just Joe, he's a very loyal person" ........... fast forward several years and all three of us have grown up, gotten married, had children, bought houses etc.

But Joe still has the same jealous "he's MY friend" attitude (even more embarrassing now considering we're both approaching middle-age at this stage) .......... my wife has commented that he's a bit "full-on" around me, my in-laws think he's a bit "OTT" when it comes to me and my other friends have said he's very "intense".

Here's the issue ......... over the last couple of years when big events have arisen in his life (marriage/kids) he has chosen Paul to be his Bestman/Godfather etc. .......... now this has always come as a bit of a surprise to people who know us both as I would have seemed like a natural choice which has left me a little red-faced ......... I'm embarrassed even admitting that at my age but that's how I've felt mostly because he's always made such a BIG deal about how close we are as friends .......... yet when it came down to it he chooses his actual (in my opinion) Best Friend.
If he alternated between both myself and Paul it wouldn't be as embarrassing but it's been all one-sided ........... every time it happens feels like a slap in the face.
I've excused his decisions to confused friends and family (of mine) by explaining that "oh, he was really torn between the two of us so I let him off the hook" ......... this was never true, he just chose Paul and informed me of his decision every time.

A few weeks back another situation came up where by he would need to choose between myself and Paul only this time he asked me how I'd feel if he chose Paul so I was honest with him and told him I'd be disappointed if he didn't pick me this time ......... he chose Paul anyway.

We didn't talk much for the next couple of weeks (unusual for us but I just wanted to distance myself from him for a while to let him know that I was hurt) but we were then out with mutual friends and the topic came up (brought up by him) at the end of the night and escalated into an argument with him claiming that "you're trying to make me feel guilty" and me responding with "if you feel guilty then you must feel like you've done something wrong" .......... all very pathetic for men of our age but there you go.

We haven't talked since ......... my wife and various others, while understanding my point of view, feel that I should contact him to avoid losing a long-term friend/friendship ......... I'm torn .......... on the one-hand I feel like "good-riddance" .......... but on the other hand maybe it is a shame to let this come between us ........... so my questions are:

1. Was I right or wrong?

2. Should I contact him?

3. If I do contact him, what should I say?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any advice, opinions and help offered.

osarusan

You're not wrong to feel a bit put out by his decisions, but you probably are/were not in a position to actually say anything about it. I'd just have kept my feelings to myself and said I didn't mind whoever he chose as long as he was happy with that.

I don't know what he's doing asking you if it is ok with you if he asks Paul seeing as he has been asking Paul before anyway (without ever checking with you), and was going to ask him this time too, regardless of what you said.

Do you want to remain friends with Joe (notwithstanding his preference for asking Paul to be part of big events)?

If so send him a text saying you're sorry, you think you both said some silly stuff and you'd like to meet for a coffee/pint and a chat to put it behind you.

Only do that if you are happy to put it behind you though, and work out what you want to come out of that conversation over a pint.

That's my two cents anyway.

Alf Veedersane

If you value your friendship, I wouldn't be inclined to jeopardise it because he chose the other lad. It doesn't mean your friendship means any less.

He's known the other guy longer. Maybe that's his justification.

Friendship is more than who picks who for what.

LegacyUser

osarusan wrote: »

You're not wrong to feel a bit put out by his decisions, but you probably are/were not in a position to actually say anything about it. I'd just have kept my feelings to myself and said I didn't mind whoever he chose as long as he was happy with that.

I don't know what he's doing asking you if it is ok with you if he asks Paul seeing as he has been asking Paul before anyway (without ever checking with you), and was going to ask him this time too, regardless of what you said.

Do you want to remain friends with Joe (notwithstanding his preference for asking Paul to be part of big events)?

If so send him a text saying you're sorry, you think you both said some silly stuff and you'd like to meet for a coffee/pint and a chat to put it behind you.

Only do that if you are happy to put it behind you though, and work out what you want to come out of that conversation over a pint.

That's my two cents anyway.

Thanks for your reply ........... the problem is I've been keeping my feelings to myself for years, I've always said to him "I don't care who you choose, as long as you're happy" ......... but that hasn't been true and how can we be true friends if I'm not honest with him?
Also it's not really the fact that I wasn't asked (again), it's more the way he behaves around people when with me proclaiming that we're like inseparable brothers leading people to believe that I will be asked and, when I'm not, it's embarrassing.

On your second point, regarding asking me if it's ok if he asks Paul, I think he just wanted me to let him off the hook so he wouldn't feel guilty if any of my other friends questioned his decision ......... I was honest telling I'd be disappointed which irritated him.

I would like to remain friends with Joe but as a more "normal" friend relationship as opposed to his intensity which, I feel, was fake anyway.

I can't text him and say "sorry" as I'm not sorry .......... should I, in your opinion, be sorry? If so, why exactly??

Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply.

LegacyUser

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you value your friendship, I wouldn't be inclined to jeopardise it because he chose the other lad. It doesn't mean your friendship means any less.

He's known the other guy longer. Maybe that's his justification.

Friendship is more than who picks who for what.

Thanks for the reply ............ he did say to me "I've known Paul longer than I've known you" to which I replied "So why act like you could never choose between me and Paul when you've been doing it for years?! He's your best mate, he's always been your best mate, which is fine but stop the bullsh*t when you're talking to other people about how close we are, I'm sick of it!" ........... now I know this was a bit harsh but he didn't have an answer for me.

I'm not sure if I do value his friendship any more ......... and it bothers me that I'm unsure.

MistyCheese

If you don't want to contact him to say 'sorry' and try to put this behind you then I wouldn't contact him for now. I think you need to let the dust settle. You've told him how you feel, that's all you can do. It's up to him now how he chooses to proceed.

You say he's very intense so maybe the friendship would benefit from a bit of time and space to cool off.

It's a bit odd that you feel the need to make excuses for his previous decisions. I'm sure other people don't really care as much as you think they do. It might feel like people are 'shocked' because you are upset or annoyed and you're intensifying other people's reactions.

Could this have gotten back to Joe? Or Paul? If Paul heard it he might believe it and think that Joe really had wanted you but you stood down. Or if Joe heard he might feel that you've put words in his mouth. It's no-one else's business and you've said your piece to Joe now. You don't feel you've done anything wrong but I imagine Joe doesn't think he has either.

miamee

If you don't want to lose him as a friend then contact him and apologise for things said in the heat of the moment and ask him to meet up with you. Talk about it. Tell him how embarrassing it is that he goes out of his way to tell everyone you are his BEST friend and then chooses Paul to be his best man, child's godfather, whatever.
Tell him that it is painfully embarrassing for you to have to explain his actions to other people when they are confused and ask you and that it wouldn't be half as bad if he'd just give the "BEST FRIENDS" bit a rest now that ye are grown men. See how he reacts. To be honest it could go either way but if you are fed up with the whole scenario then perhaps it's time to lay all your cards on the table and see if it improves.

LegacyUser

Op I thought I was reading about teenagers until you said you were both approaching middle age. Your friend Joe sounds really immature, this whole best friend stuff, why would somebody go around introducing friends like that?

I'd be embarrassed if I had somebody like Joe hanging out of me on nights out and getting jealous of me being friends with others. I can't understand how you have put up with him for so long. You should have nipped that attitude and behaviour in the bud a long time ago.

I think he's treating you like a puppy on a string, he wants you as friend in some format but doesn't really value you enough to involve you in any of big occasions in his life. Maybe the friendship has run its course and its time to move on.

osarusan

ConfusedMate wrote: »

Thanks for your reply ........... the problem is I've been keeping my feelings to myself for years, I've always said to him "I don't care who you choose, as long as you're happy" ......... but that hasn't been true and how can we be true friends if I'm not honest with him?

Of course you can. I've good good friends, and we disagree about stuff all the time, and I'm sure we do things that the other thinks is wrong/stupid but we bite our tongues anyway.

ConfusedMate wrote: »

I would like to remain friends with Joe but as a more "normal" friend relationship as opposed to his intensity which, I feel, was fake anyway.

To be honest the friendship sounds unusually, almost weirdly, 'intense' and it might be a good idea to place it on a 'normal' footing anyway.

You say the intensity is on his part, but the value you place on feelings and honesty is something more akin to a romantic relationship than a platonic one.

ConfusedMate wrote: »

I can't text him and say "sorry" as I'm not sorry .......... should I, in your opinion, be sorry? If so, why exactly??

You said in your OP that you both got involved in some pathetic stuff - that's what you could be saying sorry for, in an attempt to get over it and repair the friendship.

Anyway, have you never said sorry to anybody to patch things up, even when you didn't really mean it?

LegacyUser

miamee wrote: »

If you don't want to lose him as a friend then contact him and apologise for things said in the heat of the moment and ask him to meet up with you. Talk about it. Tell him how embarrassing it is that he goes out of his way to tell everyone you are his BEST friend and then chooses Paul to be his best man, child's godfather, whatever.
Tell him that it is painfully embarrassing for you to have to explain his actions to other people when they are confused and ask you and that it wouldn't be half as bad if he'd just give the "BEST FRIENDS" bit a rest now that ye are grown men. See how he reacts. To be honest it could go either way but if you are fed up with the whole scenario then perhaps it's time to lay all your cards on the table and see if it improves.

The problem is we did have that conversation ......... which escalated into the argument ........ which has lead to the present situation.

LegacyUser

tabs101 wrote: »

Op I thought I was reading about teenagers until you said you were both approaching middle age. Your friend Joe sounds really immature, this whole best friend stuff, why would somebody go around introducing friends like that?

I'd be embarrassed if I had somebody like Joe hanging out of me on nights out and getting jealous of me being friends with others. I can't understand how you have put up with him for so long. You should have nipped that attitude and behaviour in the bud a long time ago.

I think he's treating you like a puppy on a string, he wants you as friend in some format but doesn't really value you enough to involve you in any of big occasions in his life. Maybe the friendship has run its course and its time to move on.

This is exactly how I feel .......... but most people around me disagree which is very frustrating as, for several years, all my close family and friends have described him as "a bit weird", "too intense", "way to OTT" etc. yet now those same people are saying "it would be a shame to let him go as a friend" ........... I honestly thought they would all agree with my "f*ck him, he's an eejit anyway" attitude ......... but they haven't which is why I'm looking for more objective views on here ........ and I'm certainly getting them which I'm grateful for but there doesn't seem to be any general consensus ........ still confused as to what to do next!?!??!!!

LegacyUser

Well since you haven't been in contact or texted do you miss been in contact with him or is a weight of your shoulders not having to deal with him again? Do you all mix in the same circles? Are you likely to meet me out socially ? If you do then maybe you will have to send a text to keep things civil. But there's no point in apologising and getting back in contact because your friends and family are telling you to.

orthsquel

ConfusedMate wrote: »

This is exactly how I feel .......... but most people around me disagree which is very frustrating as, for several years, all my close family and friends have described him as "a bit weird", "too intense", "way to OTT" etc. yet now those same people are saying "it would be a shame to let him go as a friend" ........... I honestly thought they would all agree with my "f*ck him, he's an eejit anyway" attitude ......... but they haven't which is why I'm looking for more objective views on here ........ and I'm certainly getting them which I'm grateful for but there doesn't seem to be any general consensus ........ still confused as to what to do next!?!??!!!

Well you know what people have said down through the years about him being ott and intense with his behaviour, but this situation isn't quite the same where they might agree with letting the friendship go. Maybe while they know the past they don't want to influence you into a decision that you might later regret. I suppose in a way they might want you to consider the friendship without someone saying "ah shure sod him" so that rather than not doing anything about it, you do something constructive about the friendship.

Perhaps you might have thought you had that conversation where you laid your cards on the table re his intensity and about making a big show of being your best friend only to ask Paul for personal roles in his life, but it sounds like it was more or less a casual conversation round the table with friends, where perhaps unless you went off to talk separately, it otherwise would have been not as personal and not as all laid bare as might be needed. The conversation that escalated to an argument was instigated by him, do you really think you got across to him at the time the issue of his behaviour as much as you have here? Were there a few drinks involved or maybe there needs to be some clarity in a proper conversation one on one since that conversation.

I suppose OP it depends on what you want. Have you reached your limit and are you happy to leave things as is, which might, later on impact mutual friends. I'd be kind of thinking that while you may have considered cutting ties with him directly, perhaps maybe you haven't considered knock on effects such as mutual friends who might find it all awkward dealing with a fall out where perhaps it creates a massive problem for everyone else, but where it's perfectly fine for you and Joe.

Do you think it's worth trying to make an effort to talk to him? Maybe with some space he's taken some of what you did say on board and considered his behaviour.

I suppose questions to ask yourself is really do you want to be friends with him? Do you feel when he does act all intense and telling all and sundry you're his best friend that you can be upfront about how it makes you feel and deal with it and that he acknowledges and stops doing it? Are you just considering staying friends for the sake of shared history? Or do you feel he - outside of this issue - contributes something positive in your life as you might do his?

tbh OP if you were to work things out then I think you'd have to be able to call him out on his behaviour (in private, not in front of other friends where he might get defensive or escalate to an argument) rather than bottle things up. In a way, perhaps he always assumed you never had an issue with Paul being chosen for things over you, because you never made an issue, until one day you were asked. Perhaps you need to be that bit more vocal in future for the friendship to remain and evolve, rather than falling back on bottling up and explaining away situations and grinning and bearing situations you are uncomfortable in.

LegacyUser

orthsquel wrote: »

Well you know what people have said down through the years about him being ott and intense with his behaviour, but this situation isn't quite the same where they might agree with letting the friendship go. Maybe while they know the past they don't want to influence you into a decision that you might later regret. I suppose in a way they might want you to consider the friendship without someone saying "ah shure sod him" so that rather than not doing anything about it, you do something constructive about the friendship.

Perhaps you might have thought you had that conversation where you laid your cards on the table re his intensity and about making a big show of being your best friend only to ask Paul for personal roles in his life, but it sounds like it was more or less a casual conversation round the table with friends, where perhaps unless you went off to talk separately, it otherwise would have been not as personal and not as all laid bare as might be needed. The conversation that escalated to an argument was instigated by him, do you really think you got across to him at the time the issue of his behaviour as much as you have here? Were there a few drinks involved or maybe there needs to be some clarity in a proper conversation one on one since that conversation.

I suppose OP it depends on what you want. Have you reached your limit and are you happy to leave things as is, which might, later on impact mutual friends. I'd be kind of thinking that while you may have considered cutting ties with him directly, perhaps maybe you haven't considered knock on effects such as mutual friends who might find it all awkward dealing with a fall out where perhaps it creates a massive problem for everyone else, but where it's perfectly fine for you and Joe.

Do you think it's worth trying to make an effort to talk to him? Maybe with some space he's taken some of what you did say on board and considered his behaviour.

I suppose questions to ask yourself is really do you want to be friends with him? Do you feel when he does act all intense and telling all and sundry you're his best friend that you can be upfront about how it makes you feel and deal with it and that he acknowledges and stops doing it? Are you just considering staying friends for the sake of shared history? Or do you feel he - outside of this issue - contributes something positive in your life as you might do his?

tbh OP if you were to work things out then I think you'd have to be able to call him out on his behaviour (in private, not in front of other friends where he might get defensive or escalate to an argument) rather than bottle things up. In a way, perhaps he always assumed you never had an issue with Paul being chosen for things over you, because you never made an issue, until one day you were asked. Perhaps you need to be that bit more vocal in future for the friendship to remain and evolve, rather than falling back on bottling up and explaining away situations and grinning and bearing situations you are uncomfortable in.

This post has hit home and makes a lot of sense so thanks for taking the time to write it, it's genuinely appreciated.

The conversation we had which escalated into an argument was in private for the most part ........ although, yes, we both had been drinking quite heavily which may have been the reason the conversation turned nasty .......... this is something I'll have to think about and consider if a repeat conversation is worthwhile.

As far as being happy to leave things as they are and not bother making contact, I don't know .......... instinctively I feel like just leaving things and moving on ........ but I'm questioning if that really is the right thing to do?

Whether myself and Joe remain friends or not will have no affect on mutual friends as we simply don't have any mutual friends .......... he has his circle of people, I have mine ......... Joe only ever socialises or comes into contact with my circle through me exclusively and vice versa.

The rest of your post has left me with a lot to think about and I thank you for that ..........

Calhoun

I'd be rid of him to be honest, had a similar good buddy like that and although he was a good lad to be around he loved attention and would play a few folk off each other.

Liked to make each he was interacting with feel like they were the best mate, he even did it to his partner and wrecked her head a bit with mind games with a few female friends he had.

Took me long enough to see it with him, in the end i was tired of being expected to treat him like a best mate while not really getting it in return.