What's so great about Ocarina of Time?

Myrddin

An interesting idea - that 'golden era' games for many of us, are well, questionably disappointing for people who arrived to gaming years after. For me, OoT stands as my joint-favourite game ever...but, someone who played it for the first time say ten years later, won't be served with the contextual-impact of the game, and will instead, but left with the core constituents, many of which are undeniably left wanting when compared to games more recent. So is it a case of when the question is asked, "What's so great about Ocarina of Time"....the answer must be, "well, you had to be there really"...:(

o1s1n

/bites tongue

:pac:

For me, loads of n64 games suffer from this. They dated horribly.

Retr0gamer

Ocarina has major problems that date it terribly even though I still think it's an amazing game. Firstly the engine is incredibly janky and held together by the coders optimism. Movement is very clunky as well. Also a biggie is that the game takes ages to really get going. It seems to be a problem with all 3D zeldas, the starting tutorial area just drags on too long before you get to the exciting stuff. Compare that to Link to the Past, you wake up in your room go to the castle and you are immediately in a dungeon with awesome music breaking the princess out of the castle. Also the camera is pure pish in a bottle.

For a newcomer they would have to get over all of that before they realise it's a great game and even for me when I played the game properly on the GC it took me a long time to get into it.

It's not the best game ever or even the best Zelda ever (give that to LttP or Links Awakening) but it's a damn fine game which just hasn't aged as well as other games.

I'd also like to add that Megaman Legend came out a few months before it and is a far better game with better graphics :P

eddhorse

I really enjoyed it at the time, cant stand watching speedrunners on it now though, so many glitches.
And also they jump backwards which is faster, hard to watch.

I did manage to get all those pesky spiders too.
Did eveyrthing the gane had to offer as far as i remember.

Retr0 is correct for once though. It has aged.

CiDeRmAn

I have loved this game for a very long time.
That said, on release, I thought it too slow and the auto jumping was a bit odd too me.
I did appreciate the use of the N64 cart as a story telling medium, with fly by's and cinematic camera angles, along with dynamic music.
The story was, well, it was a Legend of Zelda tale, and hit all the expected beats, but the addition of the third dimension seemed to take tropes like the bow and arrow, boomerang and hookshot and make them new again.
I think it's probably too easy to tackle the camera issues and graphics, given that the format was known for the former and the latter only really suffers in hindsight.
And I will confess to never getting further than half way on the original cart, it took the 3DS remake to spur me to complete it and that title gently fixed all I had found lacking in the original while still feeling like, fundamentally, the same game, preserving all that was wonderful.

Everything ages.
There isn't a game out there that hasn't aged in some regard, even A Link to the Past.
But then that was created in a medium that was well understood and had hardware that had pretty much perfected the process of getting 2D games onto a display, the SNES in this regard was and still is, unassailable.
But 3D was relatively new, and Megaman Legend aside, Sony and MS struggled to produce anything comparable to Links action adventure in Hyrule, in 3 dimensions. It might have take Ico before anyone managed it, and by that time Nintendo had released another two LoZ title.
Anyway, I'm sure there's plenty there to be contradicted by many, but that's my ten cent on LoZ:OoT, it's a wonderful game and I don't think I'll ever fall out of love with it

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

it's a wonderful game and I don't think I'll ever fall out of love with it

Same here, & I think that's the point of the video above. It's not to dispute that the game hasn't aged, but instead, it asks the question of why is this game so timelessly great for so many people (many of whom were early adopters), and for others who played it later on, it's no great shake. Why does it hit that sweet spot for some, earning coveted mention in many top ten lists...when given today, the game in its N64 incarnation looks bad & is so clunky.

Further to that, everyone has an 'Ocarina' game...a game that for whatever reason, made an enormous impact and will forever be held in the hearts of those who loved it, while at the same time, this impact was lost on others be it for technological progress, or simply the zeitgeist of the time has changed since.

razorblunt

For me it was my first big RPG, I was blown away by the freedom and open area.
Once the horse became available I'd spend ages just riding around.

I think it really got me interested in 1 player games from then on. Before that I'd have seen computer games really as multiplayer stuff.

I don't think anything has matched my relief of getting out of the Water Temple either after 10 days of trying!

CiDeRmAn

Myrddin wrote: »

Same here, & I think that's the point of the video above. It's not to dispute that the game hasn't aged, but instead, it asks the question of why is this game so timelessly great for so many people (many of whom were early adopters), and for others who played it later on, it's no great shake. Why does it hit that sweet spot for some, earning coveted mention in many top ten lists...when given today, the game in its N64 incarnation looks bad & is so clunky.

Further to that, everyone has an 'Ocarina' game...a game that for whatever reason, made an enormous impact and will forever be held in the hearts of those who loved it, while at the same time, this impact was lost on others be it for technological progress, or simply the zeitgeist of the time has changed since.

My personal "Ocarina" game isn't OoT oddly enough, it is Ico on the PS2.
I played it on release, in 2001, some 20 years into my gaming life, with many hours of bliss playing everything from the Vic20 and 2600 to Nintendo, Sega, Sony and MS along the way.
But, there was some convergence, and a game I never knew would so affecting came along, Ico, I won't wax on about it here as it's a thread about OoT, but Ico was my "Ocarina" game, despite obvious limitations in hardware the game was and is pure poetry and, despite it's lofty ambitions, never forgets to be a game and a game with a story to tell.
I still am reminded, on a fresh bright morning with the morning chorus of birdsong, of stepping outside the dark castle interiors of that game into the light and hearing the same birdsong, wonderful.

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I won't wax on about it here as it's a thread about OoT, but Ico was my "Ocarina" game

This is exactly what the video is about, less so about OoT itself, but more about the phenomenon of games just getting things right, at the right time, for certain people...and then being remembered in that same light forever more, despite times & technology moving on. For you, Ico is that game - the question is, why has Ico had that impact on you, while for someone else, it may have been a throwaway game?

I still am reminded, on a fresh bright morning with the morning chorus of birdsong, of stepping outside the dark castle interiors of that game into the light and hearing the same birdsong, wonderful.

Brilliant, that's how you know a game has had a profound impact on you

Retr0gamer

razorblunt wrote: »

For me it was my first big RPG, I was blown away by the freedom and open area.

Grr! It's not a RPG!

The Last Bandit

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Grr! It's not a RPG!

Ya surely it's a JRPG cus it's made in Japan, right

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Everything ages.

I really don't agree with that statement. A lot of games are still as good as when they came out and some even still look great. Often times it's games that push the hardware too far that end up aging the worst on the respective console. Ocarina would be one of them. The engine chugs along at a not very consistent framerate, topping out at a pitiful 20 FPS. It really pushed large areas but left everything kind of looking a bit crappy looking as a result. The N64's limitations didn't really help many games either with most coming off with a colour palete of brown and blurry. Still some games even on the N64 hold up extremely well and look gorgeous to boot, Sin and Punishment and Starfox 64 have rock solid framerates and look great but they are on the rails so much less complex than something like Zelda. Good gameplay will alway be good gameplay.

I think framerate plays a major part in how well a game ages. You can forgive a game on launch if the framerate isn't so good if it's pushing the system or games to new limits. Stuff like Ocarina, SotC and Starfox on the SNES are prime examples but it's hard going back to them because the technological advances aren't pronounced anymore and you are just left fighting the horrible lag in controls. I think with the last generation of consoles suffering from major framerate issues we are going to see a lot of those games suffer from this in the long run.

Also disagree with Link to the Past having aged. It's one of those Nintendo games that is pretty much perfect and hasn't aged a day, like Super Metroid and Super Mario World.

Link to the past aged??
get out
I got OoT with my N64 for Christmas and it blew my mind.

there is a remastered version isnt there?
I wouldnt mind giving that a go but no way i'd try the N64 version.
Rose tinted glasses and all that.

o1s1n

I'm aging at a faster rate than LTTP

Do you have a 3DS Brownfinger? Could play the rerelease of OOT on that.

OldMrBrennan83

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o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

I'm aging at a faster rate than LTTP

Do you have a 3DS Brownfinger? Could play the rerelease of OOT on that.

No,I've no 3DS,been wanting one for ages.
Heading on hols for a few weeks and my bro promised me a loan of his.
Of course he went back on his word last night :rolleyes:
He is moving into my house to mind my cats tho so I'll let him off.
Have LttP and a few other games on the android tab lined up tho.

Retr0gamer

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There was one other on the N64, Majora's Mask which is the one with the time limit. I think that would be one of my favourite Zelda's. Takes an awful long time to click with the player but once it does it's great. It has it's flaws and has aged badly as well but there really is no other game like it. It's probably the strongest story in the zelda franchise as well.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

There was one other on the N64, Majora's Mask which is the one with the time limit. I think that would be one of my favourite Zelda's. Takes an awful long time to click with the player but once it does it's great. It has it's flaws and has aged badly as well but there really is no other game like it. It's probably the strongest story in the zelda franchise as well.

Just started playing this for the first time today. Not sure what to make of it so far but it definitely seems to be shaping up to be interesting.

o1s1n

BrownFinger wrote: »

No,I've no 3DS,been wanting one for ages.
Heading on hols for a few weeks and my bro promised me a loan of his.
Of course he went back on his word last night :rolleyes:
He is moving into my house to mind my cats tho so I'll let him off.
Have LttP and a few other games on the android tab lined up tho.

No 3DS?! Fix that immediately :pac: too many great games to pass up.

o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

No 3DS?! Fix that immediately :pac: too many great games to pass up.

I know!
I just never seem to have the cash.
I did play a link between worlds tho:cool:
now thats a tribute to LttP !

J_E

An important point to make about the game is sound design - the sound in the game is god tier, so thorough that people have completed the entire game blindfolded. If you think "oh they just remember the game well" there was a blind guy who completed it! I still think it holds up as a fantastic adventure title.

Tchoin

Very interesting thread! I personally think it's one of the greatest games of all times, and have played it and replayed it many times (both in N64 and GC Master Quest) - Majora's Mask is also superb, but I have only played through (thoroughly, 100%) just one time.

What's so great about OoT? Simple: Fishing! j/k

I think they may not have aged well for some people, as most N64 games have, but as I played it back in the day - that is the memory I have and it does not struck me when playing it back.

I've been meaning to play both remakes for 3DS, only have OoT at the moment, but haven't had the time yet. I think these remakes might be a good option for younger folks who did not have the chance to play the N64 ones back in the day... same core, more polygons, less eye burn?

Myrddin

BrownFinger wrote: »

no way i'd try the N64 version.
Rose tinted glasses and all that.

This is the nub of the matter really, why do some view OoT through rose tinted glasses (and therefore not really bother with it today), while others like myself, could go back to this game today on the N64 & be so taken in by the game that the flaws, well, simply don't matter. For me, it's a case of the stars aligning when I first played it (the music, the story, the immersion, all at the right moment in my gaming life) that has cemented the game as a top three ever for me. Sure, I can see its flaws very clearly, but when I play it, I'm instantly absorbed into Hyrule, & it may as well be 1996 again. This doesn't happen with every game of that era, in fact, pretty much OoT & LttP have this effect on me & nothing else. I can't explain it any better than that, but the game had such a profound and lasting impact on me that it has left a permanent nostalgic imprint on my brain

Tchoin

I do remember that back in the day I did not own OoT the first time I played it through, and had to rent it at a local Blockbuster, I panicked every time I had to return it and could not rent it again for a few days... crossed my fingers that the saved game would still be there untouched for the next time!

razorblunt

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Grr! It's not a RPG!

Relax yourself.


I now spot my mistake, its an FPS.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I really don't agree with that statement. A lot of games are still as good as when they came out and some even still look great. Often times it's games that push the hardware too far that end up aging the worst on the respective console. Ocarina would be one of them. The engine chugs along at a not very consistent framerate, topping out at a pitiful 20 FPS. It really pushed large areas but left everything kind of looking a bit crappy looking as a result. The N64's limitations didn't really help many games either with most coming off with a colour palete of brown and blurry. Still some games even on the N64 hold up extremely well and look gorgeous to boot, Sin and Punishment and Starfox 64 have rock solid framerates and look great but they are on the rails so much less complex than something like Starfox. Good gameplay will alway be good gameplay.

I think framerate plays a major part in how well a game ages. You can forgive a game on launch if the framerate isn't so good if it's pushing the system or games to new limits. Stuff like Ocarina, SotC and Starfox on the SNES are prime examples but it's hard going back to them because the technological advances aren't pronounced anymore and you are just left fighting the horrible lag in controls. I think with the last generation of consoles suffering from major framerate issues we are going to see a lot of those games suffer from this in the long run.

Also disagree with Link to the Past having aged. It's one of those Nintendo games that is pretty much perfect and hasn't aged a day, like Super Metroid and Super Mario World.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Everything ages.
There isn't a game out there that hasn't aged in some regard...

Ok, fair enough, maybe a little strong, and a little wrong

...A Link to the Past.
But then that was created in a medium that was well understood and had hardware that had pretty much perfected the process of getting 2D games onto a display, the SNES in this regard was and still is, unassailable.

But, this is true, and was point out the ease at which craftspeople could produce perfection in 2 dimensions

But 3D was relatively new, and Megaman Legend aside, Sony and MS struggled to produce anything comparable to Links action adventure in Hyrule, in 3 dimensions. It might have take Ico before anyone managed it, and by that time Nintendo had released another two LoZ title.

While 3 dimensions on limited hardware proved problematic, even for those self same developers.

Given the N64 didn't have the horses under the hood to render OoT perfectly, was it not better than we got it when we did, or would it, and we, have been better served if they'd waited for the Gamecube to see it released?

At least the GC edition of OoT seemed to sort out glitch and frame rate issues, while allowing you to enjoy the classic game, more or less how the developers first envisaged it to be.

I would also have to say that I played and completed SotC as it was on the PS2 and found it to be incredible.
Yes, there are framerate issues but they seemed to melt away into irrelevance during gameplay, and I never found any lag problems at all.
That said, if I'm to play it again, which I have promised myself I will as soon as I complete Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2, I will be playing the PS3 version, as it is that bit better overall.

CiDeRmAn

razorblunt wrote: »

Relax yourself.


I now spot my mistake, its an FPS.

Yeah, ffs razorblunt, everyone knows that an example of a truly great jrpg is The Legend of Dragoon! :rolleyes:

the groutch

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Yeah, ffs razorblunt, everyone knows that an example of a truly great jrpg is The Legend of Dragoon! Zelda on the CD-i :rolleyes:

fyp

CiDeRmAn

the groutch wrote: »

fyp

Sorry, but that's just not funny son.
Not funny at all.

Thousands of Bothans died so you wouldn't have to know the pain and misery that is even standing (or sitting) in the same room as a CDi playing the malformed LoZ games, it's more terrible than you can imagine, just be thankful that others suffered so you will never have to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHw5g55oC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

o1s1n

Still better than OOT

>_>

<_<

:pac:

Linoud

It's my favorite personally, I think Majora's Mask aged better and looks better when you go back to it to be honest, BUT, I think Ocarina will forever just be in my heart as the first Zelda game I played and remember. I can go back to the n64 version each year and be happy for what it is. I will admit though I am 100% biased.

I think most people will just argue that it was so good for the timeframe it came out, that it just sticks to them.

It certainly hasn't aged as horribly as Goldeneye. But the FPS does dip considerably when shooting Ganondorf with Light Arrows. >.>

Yffisch

I would like to play N64 - but I just can't stand that kind of 3D graphics so I have barley even played Mario 64. I hate the lack of details and old 3D games are kind of worthless in my opinion since I can't stand the graphics

CiDeRmAn

Yffisch wrote: »

I would like to play N64 - but I just can't stand that kind of 3D graphics so I have barley even played Mario 64. I hate the lack of details and old 3D games are kind of worthless in my opinion since I can't stand the graphics

That's a pity
You're missing out on Mario 64, Waverace 64, 1080° Snowboarding, Blastcorps, Rayman 2, Diddy Kong Racing....
And all better on an NTSC console too.
But worth playing regardless.

Yffisch

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

That's a pity
You're missing out on Mario 64, Waverace 64, 1080° Snowboarding, Blastcorps, Rayman 2, Diddy Kong Racing....
And all better on an NTSC console too.
But worth playing regardless.

I've tried 1080 and that was kind of fun actually, but my heart does still not belong to N64 Even Mario Kart is not that fun, hah.

CiDeRmAn

Yffisch wrote: »

I've tried 1080 and that was kind of fun actually, but my heart does still not belong to N64 Even Mario Kart is not that fun, hah.

Diddy Kong Racing is much better, and Mickey's Speedway USA is better again. It's also made by Rare, and is kinda their answer to Mario Kart 64, except it has a better frame rate and it doesn't seem to use prerendered karts. It's much better than Mario Kart 64 in every way but only lacks the Nintendo IP, which actually means more than it really should, making the game feel less fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZfCXU162nw

You should hit a Sunday market, probably pick up an N64 for pittance with a few games, sure they'll be PAL and not ideal but the console is still worth owning even so.

Yffisch

I actually already have 2 N64 consoles and about 10 games. One of them is 1080 Hmm..maybe I shall try to play it for a while, hah.

Retr0gamer

People actually like mickeys speedway? Thought it was hugely disappointing after Diddy kong racing.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

People actually like mickeys speedway? Thought it was hugely disappointing after Diddy kong racing.

No, it was smoother than DKR, a much better frame rate.
And it was a reskin away from Mario Kart, even down to one of Donald's nephews flying around at the start.

eddhorse

I could never get into Diddy Kong Racing after Mario Kart. Didnt seem as polished or fun for me.
I always see people saying they like it though. Hmmm

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

No, it was smoother than DKR, a much better frame rate.
And it was a reskin away from Mario Kart, even down to one of Donald's nephews flying around at the start.

I found it very basic with very poor drift mechanics.

CiDeRmAn

eddhorse wrote: »

I could never get into Diddy Kong Racing after Mario Kart. Didnt seem as polished or fun for me.
I always see people saying they like it though. Hmmm

I much preferred DKR, the frame rate was choppy but I spent ages playing the thing.
I bought it later on the DS and didn't have as much fun though, and pity the sequel was never to be, due to Rare fecking off to MS and making Kinect games.

OldMrBrennan83

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Retr0gamer

Mario Kart 64 really wasn't great at all in retrospect other than the battle mode. In comparison Diddy Kong Racing is better but it's still not all that great. Same with Crash Team Racing on the PS1 although that just has horrible feeling floaty carts that don't feel like they are making contact with the course, it's still a fun game that totally rips of the better Diddy Kong Racing.

If you want some really good N64 racers then the best to try are Beetle Adventure Racing and Rush series of games which are a huge amount of fun (although Dreamcast versions are better where available).

CiDeRmAn

Beetle Adventure Racing, the Need for Speed franchises party loving twin brother!

I loved the Rush games, also Top Gear Overdrive was fun.



Must play my N64 again, now, been a while since I fired up Pilotwings 64

OldMrBrennan83

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o1s1n

Patww79 wrote: »

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It's an infinitely better console.

Retr0gamer

I'd rather play the NES or famicom versions of the All-star games. There's just something a little off with All-stars. The exception is Lost levels. That game needs a save game which the famicom version doesn't.