Irish Womens Chess Championships

Banrion Fichille

Irish Womens Chess Championships 2015 as reported on the ICU site:
"This year's championships will take place from Monday 28th to Wednesday 30th December. It will be a 6 round swiss event with two rounds per day and will be FIDE rated. It will be held in a Dublin City centre venue and further details will be announced shortly.

JJ Walsh, who was granted honorary life membership of the ICU on foot of a decision at the 2014 AGM has agreed that a Cup in his name can be offered to the winner of the event."

So the Irish Women's Chess Championship shall have a cup with the name of a MAN on it.
Can I include this on the list for this thread please?
(Obviously no disrespect to JJ Walsh).

Ficheall

Banrion Fichille wrote: »

Irish Womens Chess Championships 2015 as reported on the ICU site:
"This year's championships will take place from Monday 28th to Wednesday 30th December. It will be a 6 round swiss event with two rounds per day and will be FIDE rated. It will be held in a Dublin City centre venue and further details will be announced shortly.

JJ Walsh, who was granted honorary life membership of the ICU on foot of a decision at the 2014 AGM has agreed that a Cup in his name can be offered to the winner of the event."

So the Irish Women's Chess Championship shall have a cup with the name of a MAN on it.
Can I include this on the list for this thread please?
(Obviously no disrespect to JJ Walsh).

What name would you give the cup?

sinbad68

Ficheall wrote: »

What name would you give the cup?

Maud Gonne ?

Tim Harding

Ficheall wrote: »

What name would you give the cup?

Frideswide Rowland, leading chess journalist and organiser before the First World War (so a contemporary of Maud Gonne, who is not known for chess, and of William Armstrong BL who donated the Armstrong Cup).

Between 1907 and 1914 she edited The Four-Leaved Shamrock, a small chess magazine (copy available in the National Library).

No disrespect to Jim Walsh, but I agree I found the announcement bizarre. Surely some other competition could be identified for which a J. J. Walsh Cup would be a more appropriate perpetual trophy.

Banrion Fichille

Elizabeth Shaugnessy, Chess Educator of the Year 2011
Berkley Chess School founder and president Elizabeth Shaughnessy was named 2011 Chess Educator of the Year by Chess Life magazine! - Pretty high accolade.
Hilda Chater?
Dorren O Siochrú?
David McAlister or Tim Harding may have some good ideas.
I just think it's complete bonkers having a Man's name on the cup of the Women's Chess Championship.
Again reiterating, no disrespect to JJ Walsh.

reunion

Banrion Fichille wrote: »

I just think it's complete bonkers having a Man's name on the cup of the Women's Chess Championship.
Again reiterating, no disrespect to JJ Walsh.

Well that's a load of bull****. Why can't a women's trophy be named after a man? That is exceptionally sexist to think it can't be.

I agree, there may be females who could have equally been chosen to have the trophy named after them but that does not mean they de facto get it based on gender alone. THAT is bonkers. I would rather consider the impact that individual had (in this case) on women's chess in Ireland.

Some examples: Robert Cox Cup and Solheim Cup.

I'm not sure how and why they chose JJ Walsh, but lets wait until we get minutes or a statement of why they chose JJ Walsh (like the minutes of the last executive meeting) before we rush to get the pitch forks.

checknraise

It is completely logical to name the trophy after a woman. It is the Irish women's championship after all!

reunion

checknraise wrote: »

It is completely logical to name the trophy after a woman. It is the Irish women's championship after all!

I agree that it'd be logical to have a women's trophy and potentially naming it after a woman. I disagree with the statement that it's complete bonkers that a women's trophy has a man's name on it.

I'm just making the point that a man can contribute significantly to Irish women's chess and could be considered to be put on the trophy. Not saying the name they chose was the correct one or the wrong one, but it was a possible one.

Just to note: I don't know who JJ Walsh is, or what he did.

I could understand you objecting to naming the trophy to JJ Walsh because he hadn't anything to do with Irish women's chess.

grainnewail2

As a woman in Ireland who actually plays chess on a regular basis I can see no problem whatsoever in having a trophy named after a man. I don't know the reasons for having the trophy named after this particular gentleman but that's a different matter.

Tim Harding

reunion wrote: »

Just to note: I don't know who JJ Walsh is, or what he did.

I could understand you objecting to naming the trophy to JJ Walsh because he hadn't anything to do with Irish women's chess.

Well I am not sure what Jim Walsh may or may not have contributed to Irish women's chess but he has certainly done a lot of Irish chess in general and I am surprised reunion doesn't know this. Many readers of the forum are probably aware that he has been contributing chess puzzles to the Irish Times for decades.

I think he was the Walsh on the Irish olympiad team at Amsterdam 1954 and he was certainly on the team at Moscow 1956, and top board at Munich 1958. He was still playing locally up to the mid-1970s.

mikhail

reunion wrote: »

Just to note: I don't know who JJ Walsh is, or what he did.

Here he plays Botvinnik while the latter was reigning World Champion http://www.irlchess.com/2014/10/24/walsh-botvinnik-munich-1958/.
He was a regular at Irish Championships in the 1950s; no wins unless I missed one, but lots of high finishes: https://irishchesshistory.wordpress.com/official/irish-championship/.

checknraise

Its been a while since I read the Irish Times but does he not also do the daily chess puzzle?

cdeb

He does, yep.

Tim Harding mentioned it in his post.

sinbad68

Yep, It would be better to have a female name on the cup. using a name like JJ walsh that not many know or , female chess educator 2011 is NO good due to lack of major achievements.The name on the cup should be Judit Polgar,The strongest female chess player in history, nothing will top this.

ComDubh

Wasn't April Cronin the highest rated Irish woman ever?

Tim Harding

ComDubh wrote: »

Wasn't April Cronin the highest rated Irish woman ever?

Not sure, certainly a good player (and very pleasant person). However, she won the title only about three years ago and could win it again if she wanted to try, so it's a bit premature to put her name on the cup. Like telling her to permanently retire whereas we could do with her playing again...

cruizer101

Maybe this is off topic and doesn't belong in thread but why is there a separate womens chess championship and not just a general chess championship, surely that is itself sexist.

Pete Morriss

Tim Harding wrote: »

However, she [April Cronin] won the title only about three years ago ...

I don't think that can be right. According to the ICU website she hasn't played a rated game since 2008, and the FIDE website doesn't record a game since at least 2001. It would still be good to have her back, of course.

brilliantboy

cruizer101 wrote: »

Maybe this is off topic and doesn't belong in thread but why is there a separate womens chess championship and not just a general chess championship, surely that is itself sexist.

This a common point of confusion. There are no "men only" tournaments in chess. Women are entitled to enter any open tournament provided they meet the specific rating requirements.

Separate women's tournaments exist to promote the women's game and provide more avenues for participation. There's nothing to stop a woman from becoming both Irish Champion and Irish Women's Champion.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

cruizer101 wrote: »

Maybe this is off topic and doesn't belong in thread but why is there a separate womens chess championship and not just a general chess championship, surely that is itself sexist.

Could be argued that way but every sport I can think of is split by gender at the highest level (Golf, Tennis, Soccer, Rugby, Athletics etc etc). As with these other sports, women can compete in the men's section if they desire to do so.

sinbad68 wrote: »

Yep, It would be better to have a female name on the cup. using a name like JJ walsh that not many know or , female chess educator 2011 is NO good due to lack of major achievements.The name on the cup should be Judit Polgar,The strongest female chess player in history, nothing will top this.

I respectfully disagree. She has had little or no impact on Irish chess. Tim and Banrion Fichille's suggestions seem appropriate. Although, if Judit would like to come here and offer some coaching - then by all means

sinbad68

The BEST solution to the name on the cup ...is..................... Let the women decide.

Contact all the current female ICU members and give them a list of names and let them vote in a preferential system in order of choice .

P.S. The list must include " Catwoman"

ComDubh

Pete Morriss wrote: »

I don't think that can be right. According to the ICU website she hasn't played a rated game since 2008, and the FIDE website doesn't record a game since at least 2001. It would still be good to have her back, of course.

See IRLChess, she did indeed win the Irish women's c'ship in 2010. The ICU didn't report it for some odd reason (I assume an oversight). She was a fine player in her day. @Tim, I agree, I was really just wondering was she the strongest ever Irish woman player, and I believe she was.

Perhaps the ICU made a bad call here, but it didn't strike me until Banríon pointed it out. JJ Walsh is definitely a fine candidate to have a trophy named after him, but perhaps this isn't the best one. However if the decision has been made, then debating it like this is a bit pointless and undignified, and perhaps we should stop this thread now?

historian

April Cronin won the Irish Ladies Championship in 2010. It was one of the events in the Dun Laoghaire Chess Festival. [I believe some time in the recent past the ICU changed the title to "Women's"]

1. April Cronin 5.0/5
2. Aoife Ledwidge O’Brien 3.0
3. Sinead Duffy 2.5

I cannot post with images, URLs or attachments because I'm a "new user" so perhaps someone with those privileges could post a link to article 271 at the ICU website.

The probable reason there is no record of Cronin rated games is because the championship appears on this occasion to have been a rapidplay. The tournament brochure indicated that it would be a one-day event and its structure would be determined by the number of entries. It was held on 21st August. My guess is that it was a six-player all-play-all.

cdeb

historian wrote: »

I cannot post with images, URLs or attachments because I'm a "new user" so perhaps someone with those privileges could post a link to article 271 at the ICU website.

Here we go

Tim Harding

Pete Morriss wrote: »

I don't think that can be right. According to the ICU website she hasn't played a rated game since 2008, and the FIDE website doesn't record a game since at least 2001. It would still be good to have her back, of course.

When the Dun Laoghaire club held its centenary events in August 2010 (GM, IM, Open) there was also a women's weekend tournament which I am 99.9% sure was billed as the Irish Ladies' Championship. This was played in the hall opposite the club, where the Open was also held. April won all her games (easily). I wouldn't forget this as I have known April for many, many years and was surprised to see her there.

Geraoidin U Laighleis was playing in it, as I recall, so somebody can ask her to confirm. Also Dun Laoghaire CC should have information, If this championship is not listed on the ICU website then presumably the committee of the day failed to inform the webmaster?
Anyway this should be clarified and corrected.

grainnewail2

ComDubh wrote: »

Perhaps the ICU made a bad call here, but it didn't strike me until Banríon pointed it out. JJ Walsh is definitely a fine candidate to have a trophy named after him, but perhaps this isn't the best one. However if the decision has been made, then debating it like this is a bit pointless and undignified, and perhaps we should stop this thread now?

I would be inclined to agree with Comdubh. I don't know much about the gentleman's contribution to Irish Chess (apart from the newspapers) but the decision has been made. The focus should now be on in getting as many players to play as possible, old, young and the inbetweeners. Its actually looking really good for Womens chess at the moment as there is a great crowd of young girls coming through. I think that the Womans Officer will be very important this year. We need a young energetic person to encourage all those girls to keep playing. The named candidate I think will be terrific in that job and that we can look forward to a really good future for Womens Chess.
le gach dea-ghuí
Gearóidín

grainnewail2

Thats my anonymity gone, anyway!!

I did indeed play in that tournament. I think it was over 2 days and I played the first day. It definitely wasn't rated. It wasn't due to be rated so it wasn't overlooked.

Pete Morriss

Thanks to you all, and apologies (particularly to April Cronin) for not remembering this tournament.

historian

The original announcement for this Championship was nearly three months ago and the "further details" are still awaited. The event is not even listed on the Calendar at the ICU website. Anybody know what's going on?

sinbad68

historian wrote: »

The original announcement for this Championship was nearly three months ago and the "further details" are still awaited. The event is not even listed on the Calendar at the ICU website. Anybody know what's going on?

Let me explain it to you, After what happened to the previous executive, The current executive which has many inexperienced members is overcautious and is careful not to offend anyone and it fears making mistakes and any resultant criticism and looking for perfect solutions, therefore it ponders too long in making decisions. It's simply a mild case of Atychiphobia. Your post will now act as a catalyst and will help bring forward announcement of a date.

katydid

Since chess doesn't involve physical strength, why is there women's chess and men's chess? Can ye not compete together?

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

Let me explain it to you,

Little bit less breaking of the "Don't be a dick" rule might be nice there sinbad.

katydid

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Could be argued that way but every sport I can think of is split by gender at the highest level (Golf, Tennis, Soccer, Rugby, Athletics etc etc). As with these other sports, women can compete in the men's section if they desire to do so.

Chess isn't a sport. It's not about physical but mental ability. All the activities you mention have separate sections because of women's different physical abilities.

No need for differentiation, surely, when it comes to mental activity?

reunion

katydid wrote: »

Chess isn't a sport. It's not about physical but mental ability. All the activities you mention have separate sections because of women's different physical abilities.

No need for differentiation, surely, when it comes to mental activity?

You are wrong there. Not everything has separate sections because of physical abilities.

Chess for instance has a gender-less tournament (men and women can enter) and a female tournament.

The purpose of the female tournament is to promote female players. If female players approached the same levels of male players, I imagine this tournament would cease to exist.

Mod note: You opinion on what is/is not a sport is irrelevant here. Stay on topic. Also stop attempting to troll posters here.

katydid

reunion wrote: »

You are wrong there. Not everything has separate sections because of physical abilities.

Chess for instance has a gender-less tournament (men and women can enter) and a female tournament.

The purpose of the female tournament is to promote female players. If female players approached the same levels of male players, I imagine this tournament would cease to exist.

Mod note: You opinion on what is/is not a sport is irrelevant here. Stay on topic. Also stop attempting to troll posters here.

You're right, physical abilities don't always mean separate events. But that's not the point. When there is no need for separation for physical ability, why is there separation? THAT is my point.

Surely female players will play if they want and won't play if they don't want? The competitions are open to all. Is it not patronising, providing special events and competitions for them?

Why on earth are you accusing me of trolling? I am not a chess player, but the discussion about male and female chess is interesting, and I'm asking a valid question about why it is even an issue. There's no need to be so touchy.

Lecale

Female only events and Female only titles are there because fewer women play chess. I don't think they are really there because women are sometimes weaker than men, we can probably safely say on average that they are weaker now. It's kind of like why we have Junior Tournaments (under 18, under 16, under 14, as many under-N categories as the budget makes possible so we can have more prizes). They're just there to pamper existing players and to tempt more in.

Simple really.

Chessrookie

Can somebody remind me what impact the changes at this years EGM will have on selection for the ladies team at next years Olympiad?
Does the Irish Ladies champion automatically qualify?
Looking at the rating site it looks as though we have a strong pool of players who will push for selection, with over a dozen active players circa 1300 and above.
Would it make sense to have two sections in the Irish Ladies Championship with maybe a cut off point at either 1200 or 1400?
Players such as Diana, Alice and Gearoidin are way too strong for some of the junior players, but it could be good to have a competitive ladies section for the next wave of players

cdeb

I don't think there's ever been enough players in the competition to justify two sections.

Chessrookie

Cdeb,
Do you think the standard of the top players is a deterrent to weaker players entering the competition, or are the low numbers down to a smaller playing pool, and difficulty getting the players to pitch up?
Normally the larger weekenders such as Bunratty and Kilkenny have plenty of female entrants, yet we have never managed to get the numbers to participate in the Irish women's?
I counted at least 9 females in the challengers section in Kilkenny yet none of these would probably play in the Irish women's.
I would wager that you will have far more females when you host the Irish Juniors next year, compared to a standard/recent Irish women's championship.
It's definitely a challenge for the women's officer to continue bringing through more female players.

cdeb

Hard question for me personally to answer seeing as I'm not eligible to compete!

Bunratty and Kilkenny aren't really comparable though; they're more than just tournaments. They're social occasions as well.

Though where you say the standard of the top players is a deterrent to the weaker players - I'd say it might be the opposite; the standard of the weaker players is a deterrent to the top players. Is there really a point in a 1700 giving up a weekend for a couple of games against 800s?

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

I'd say it might be the opposite; the standard of the weaker players is a deterrent to the top players. Is there really a point in a 1700 giving up a weekend for a couple of games against 800s?

cdeb,You are Right !, other factors include -->1.There is not a big pool of players to start with 2. Big girls don't like losing to little girls 3. sparse numbers in this competition also makes higher rated ladies feel that taking part or winning the tournament does not have the prestige it should have. 4. players have other commitments.

When ICU wakes up from hibernation and sets a date, I would say Monika Gedvilaite would be the hot favorite.She is a popular coach on chess.com and having the title of Irish women champion will definitely help with that venture. *snip*

Chess_Coach

Elizabeth Shaugnessy of course and Chess is a Sport in 24/28 EU States . It could be that those 4 knew better .
For those playing competitive chess this is clear as day . http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/16/chess-extreme-sport

sinbad68

Irish women championship is on the weekend 6-7 Feb, short notice with No details ! , ICU hasn't announced it yet on homepage or put it on event calendar on ICU homepage even though it precedes Bunratty!.There is No rush now that we are in 2016 , choosing Dublin chess club as venue was good idea , as to keep the money in the family.

historian

Details now up on the ICU website: http://www.icu.ie/events/772

It is short notice but at least (as the flyer explains) this is for the 2015 Championship (originally scheduled for December) and the 2016 event will be held during the main Irish Championship Congress in July.

I'm sure I'm failing to grasp some nuance in "choosing Dublin chess club as venue was good idea , as to keep the money in the family" but at short notice a Dublin venue does seem best numbers-wise. 11am start on the Saturday does also give time to get up from the country on the day and only have to find accommodation for one night.

Let's hope there is a decent entry, despite the other attractions in January/February.

cdeb

Entry open now through the ICU shop.

L1m1tless

Great result for Mercedes in the first round, getting a draw with black against Monika