Assistant Engineer role in a County Council

Chemical Byrne

Hi. I'm hoping to draw on peoples knowledge and experience here.

I am a civil engineer, 29 yo, M.Eng, not chartered yet with 2 yrs post grad experience and 1 yr self employed between BEng & BEng Hons. At the moment I am a Graduate Engineer with a multinational civil/structural consultancy.

I've been asked to come to interview for a panel position for Assistant Engineer in a County Council.

Could I expect to go in at the bottom of the Assistant Engineer pay scale with this experience/quals or could I go in a up a step or two on the basis of experience? If the job description gives a salary figure would this be negotiable on basis of experience also?

Would taking a council job be damaging career wise, as in would I ever be realistically able to work in the private sector again after spending a few years in the council?

How do council engineer salaries compare with private in the general long term run of things? I am currently on 30k with current employer - am I getting rode? I feel it's poor. Entry level for assistant engineer is 40.3k on the Impact site but position offered is at 36k.

I also now notice that it's a 5 year fixed term contract. In reality would this be made permanent? I am permanent in my current but lower paid job - would moving to a 5 yr fixed term contract be a bad move in terms of potentially getting a mortgage? It looks like a bit of a trade off.

The_Conductor

The standard for public sector appointments is that recruitment is at the bottom point on the salary scale- unless you are a pre-existing public sector employee- in which case the point closest to your current salary point- without involving a salary cut.

A council could try to make a case to have your recruited at a point other than the minimum point on the salary scale- however, even with significance experience and qualifications- the sanction of such would be exceptional- it does happen sometimes- but its highly unusual- all the more so because other prospective recruits and/or HR could try to use it to set precedence.

Ask by all means- but don't get your hopes up (aka nothing ventured, nothing gained)........

Chemical Byrne

So are you saying that experience basically accounts for nothing? Like if someone in the private sector was getting say 50k having been in a position say 5 yrs, then to move sideways to a role of similar grade/responsibility in the public sector they would have to go back down to the bottom rung despite having plenty experience.

The_Conductor

You need the experience to even be considered for the role.
It is not the private sector though- and the pay is not commensurate to what you might get in the private sector. There is a presumption that you are attaching a non-financial value to some of the remuneration associated with the job- such as the pension associated with the job, availability of flexible working arrangements etc- that may or may not be available elsewhere.

Honestly though- large segments of the public sector are finding it increasingly difficult to recruit staff- now that opportunities are opening up again in the private sector. You are not going to get paid private sector rates in the public sector- honestly- its not going to happen.........

Why don't you chat with a few of the Engineers/Assistant Engineers over a coffee and get a feel for what the story is from them?

Chemical Byrne

Really? I was always under the impression that council offered greater salary than private sector. Obviously the in the council though you can shag off at 5.30 or whatever whereas in private you could be working dogs hours. Its a trade off I suppose.

I suppose I'm considering that the council might be the sort of job where you could get your workload out of the way in less than a working week and have the time to manage whatever sidelines that you might have going, such as a bit of development or whatever.

The_Conductor

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I suppose I'm considering that the council might be the sort of job where you could get your workload out of the way in less than a working week and have the time to manage whatever sidelines that you might have going, such as a bit of development or whatever.

It depends. As an assistant eng- you could be oncall nights/weekends(you'd get an allowance for it- but there could well be antisocial element to it). It really depends on what the job is. I wouldn't assume though that you'd be allowed squash 5 days work into 3.5 days- and then go off to do something non-related for the rest of the time- that is not normal.

Chemical Byrne

I wouldn't consider it normal either. But I have heard tell of motivated, driven individuals in councils who can get what they need to do done by Tuesday evening and then look after their sideline business for the remainder of the week, and use council draftsmen to help them draw up whatever plans with the CAD and pay them a few quid cash for it. It's carry on but from what I hear it's rife.

Gumbo

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Hi. I'm hoping to draw on peoples knowledge and experience here.

I am a civil engineer, 29 yo, M.Eng, not chartered yet with 2 yrs post grad experience and 1 yr self employed between BEng & BEng Hons. At the moment I am a Graduate Engineer with a multinational civil/structural consultancy.

I've been asked to come to interview for a panel position for Assistant Engineer in a County Council.

Can anyone advise exactly how these panels work? Like if a panel position was offered how long could one expect to have to wait for an actual job to come up?
What exactly is an assistant engineer's role? The job description was almost non-existent.

Could I expect to go in at the bottom of the Assistant Engineer pay scale with this experience/quals or could I go in a up a step or two?

Would taking a council job be damaging career wise, as in would I ever be realistically able to work in the private sector again after spending a few years in the council?

How do council engineer salaries compare with private in the general long term run of things? I am currently on 30k with current employer - am I getting rode? I feel it's poor. Entry level for assistant engineer is 40.3k. Are the increments yearly or what int he council?

Thanks folks.

MODS, can I post/copy this thread into work & jobs too?

Panels last 12 months unless specifically told otherwise.
If you place 3rd for example, 1st and 2nd get offered the position before you and it will come to you if a 3rd position becomes available or if the people on 1 and 2 decide to say no for some reason.

You will go in at the bottom of the scale unless you are already in a public service position paying more than the bottom point, in which case, you usually go in at the nearest point to your current salary plus one scale point. Quals mean nothing here, once you have the basic qualifications for the position, any extras may mean a better chance of placing, but it won't allow salary amendments.

Career wise : DCC City Engineer Michael Philips was Engineers Ireland chairman for a year iirc, so they are not looked down on as much as people may think. There are a lot of old wives tales about how you go into the council to get ready for retirement but things have changed in the last 10 years in my opinion.

Salary scale on risen incrementally on a yearly basis, from the date you started in that position. Private V Public comparison is hard as the PS salary scale is laid out with all to see and I think the Assit. Position tops out at 57k iirc?

You lose any chance of over time, Xmas bonus, project bonus etc as you get noting extra on top of your salary, not even a free cup of tea a Christmas time

Any further questions, please ask and I can try answer as best as I can.

Gumbo

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I suppose I'm considering that the council might be the sort of job where you could get your workload out of the way in less than a working week and have the time to manage whatever sidelines that you might have going, such as a bit of development or whatever.

No, this is what I mean in my post above. You sign an annual declaration that you cannot conduct work in the private sector that is similar to your PS position as it is a conflict of interest and a sackable offence.

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it normal either. But I have heard tell of motivated, driven individuals in councils who can get what they need to do done by Tuesday evening and then look after their sideline business for the remainder of the week, and use council draftsmen to help them draw up whatever plans with the CAD and pay them a few quid cash for it. It's carry on but from what I hear it's rife.

I think someone's telling you porkies. You think you can squeeze 5 days work into a day and a half???
I think you are misinformed about the work type, work load and staff available to you in the council.

Stheno

kceire wrote: »

You lose any chance of over time, Xmas bonus, project bonus etc as you get noting extra on top of your salary, not even a free cup of tea a Christmas time
.

Also consider additional benefits in a private sector role, such as e.g. private health care, permanent health insurance etc.

Tigger99

And the 20% difference in take home pay from various levies. Comparing my salary with a friend on the same in the private sector and the net pay is shockingly different.

Chemical think you have a very naive idea of the public sector.

Stheno

Tigger99 wrote: »

And the 20% difference in take home pay from various levies. Comparing my salary with a friend on the same in the private sector and the net pay is shockingly different.

Chemical think you have a very naive idea of the public sector.

Yeah, what OP needs to do here is calculate how much his current entire package is worth gross, then do the same with the Council role.

Then go onto the likes of Deloitte net pay calculator and see the difference in net pay for a public sector job.

I suspect the Council job will pay less overall, both in terms of gross benefits and net pay

Chemical Byrne

My current entire package is just salary + some expenses. That's it. Nothing more.

Would a bit of building/property development be considered a serious conflict of interest? It's not similar to the work in the council really though is it?

And the 20% difference in take home pay from various levies. Comparing my salary with a friend on the same in the private sector and the net pay is shockingly different.

Chemical think you have a very naive idea of the public sector.

What are these levies you mention? Are they specific to the councils?

Tigger99

A bit of building? Sounds like you'd be very dedicated there CB. Mmm let's see building and then working for an organisation that has to quality check or regulate the building? Yeah think there would be a conflict there alright

All public sector workers pay some additional levies, I think civil servants pay more again. Can't remember the details.

Chemical Byrne

I get the CoI if with doing development in the same LA are that you work for. But I'd imagine it would be different if the development was in a different county as there'd be no direct CoI with regard to planning etc as they're different authorities.
Anyway, applications could just be made out in someone else's name.

Stheno

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

My current entire package is just salary + some expenses. That's it. Nothing more.

Would a bit of building/property development be considered a serious conflict of interest? It's not similar to the work in the council really though is it?



What are these levies you mention? Are they specific to the councils?

Pension levy that public sector workers pay. It's 10.5% of your gross pay

http://www.thesaurus.ie/docs/2015/general/pension-related-deduction-prd-or-pension-levy/

Gumbo

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I get the CoI if with doing development in the same LA are that you work for. But I'd imagine it would be different if the development was in a different county as there'd be no direct CoI with regard to planning etc as they're different authorities.
Anyway, applications could just be made out in someone else's name.

As I said. Do not enter the LA thinking you will be able to do personal work during the day. It's a sackable offence and you would be surprised who would rat you out, even internal staff can eat you out if they feel disgruntled.

Also, draughting packages are mainly microstation, not the same as autocad, especially for drawing details such as planning apps etc

Also don't forget that all printing is linked to your ID card. We have a swipe system and the same card has to be swipped for prints to be collected so cuts out theft and the likes of fraud that you plan to do.

southeastman

Hi guys,

I have been told that i am number three on the panel for assistant and am to expect an offer in the new year. Starting salary is circa 36k which is a big drop from my current salary. But i have enough of the uncertainty of private sector. I had to travel for work during the recession and live away from family.

My question is - how long does it take for the salary to reach the top (57k)?. i am on that at present so it will hurt to leave my current job. I want to know how long it will hurt.

Thanks for any reply.

The_Conductor

There are 9 annual increments on the Assistant Engineer payscale, a 3 year waiting for LSI (Long service increment 1) and then a further 3 year wait for LSI 2. I.e. it would take 15 years to reach the very top of the salary scale.

Zipppy

southeastman wrote:

I have been told that i am number three on the panel for assistant and am to expect an offer in the new year. Starting salary is circa 36k which is a big drop from my current salary. But i have enough of the uncertainty of private sector. I had to travel for work during the recession and live away from family.

I'm at analogous to Assistant Engineer grade in a LA....
What's this starting salary of 36k? That doesn't seem right...
Other posters here are right...long long wait till.max pay...zero benefits on top of pay..
Tbh unless you want to use your skills to better public services and better the city / county for citizens, I'd stay in private...financial rewards there will be far superior...however depending on your outlook the satisfaction can be better in public..

The_Conductor

Zipppy wrote: »

I'm at analogous to Assistant Engineer grade in a LA....
What's this starting salary of 36k? That doesn't seem right...
Other posters here are right...long long wait till.max pay...zero benefits on top of pay..
Tbh unless you want to use your skills to better public services and better the city / county for citizens, I'd stay in private...financial rewards there will be far superior...however depending on your outlook the satisfaction can be better in public..

I think he means the 2010 pre-reduction payscale- if you go on some of the union websites, they never updated it.

brianbrujones

Hi Guys,

is it difficult to go from an assistant engineer position to an executive engineer position? Or are there many opportunities for promotion once you get into a council position?

Thanks

Zipppy

brianbrujones wrote:

is it difficult to go from an assistant engineer position to an executive engineer position? Or are there many opportunities for promotion once you get into a council position?

Been lots of opportunities recently for Grad, Assistant and Exec engineers...after years of nothingness..
Obviously better progression chances in bigger council..what Cty council are yiu referring to?

brianbrujones

Thanks for reply zippy...

Ya I noticed lots of new positions advertised recently as well.
Offally county council were looking just recently.
As mentioned by previous posters, I'd have to take a wages cut if I were to leave my current job for a council position (if I were to get offered a position that is!). So just was wondering if there would be many opportunities for promotion after a few years, our would I be more lightly to be stuck in the same position.

All the same, I presume it would be a much less pressurised environment & less hours than private sector engineering jobs...

Zipppy

brianbrujones wrote:

All the same, I presume it would be a much less pressurised environment & less hours than private sector engineering jobs...

Yes a lot less pressurised work environment but a lot more satisfying and rewarding...
I thought Offaly were seeking Exec Engineers?
Advancement would depend on how many opportunities arise...you probably would have to put in your time at assistant level...

brianbrujones

They advertised for both assistant & Exec engineers. I didn't apply for the Exec job as I though I would need some existing council experience - such as assistant engineer experience - to be considered (although I have over 8 years experience in the private sector). I do regret not going for it now though!

Zipppy

brianbrujones wrote: »

They advertised for both assistant & Exec engineers. I didn't apply for the Exec job as I though I would need some existing council experience - such as assistant engineer experience - to be considered (although I have over 8 years experience in the private sector). I do regret not going for it now though!

Its all down to the interview..no preference is given to existing Assistant staff (or other grades) but however they will obviously have an upper hand with their knowledge and experience....assuming they can get that across at interview..
Always go for these jobs...private sector experience is just as valuable as public...

brianbrujones

that's good to know for future posts that are advertised. They requested my college degree off me - so I assume im being considered for an interview.

Is there generally much expenses to be claimed per year for assistant engineers (or engineers in general in CC for that matter)?

Would it usually be between 3 to 5K per year on top of salary or does it vary drastically from position to position?

Thanks again.

Zipppy

brianbrujones wrote:

Is there generally much expenses to be claimed per year for assistant engineers (or engineers in general in CC for that matter)?

brianbrujones wrote:

Would it usually be between 3 to 5K per year on top of salary or does it vary drastically from position to position?

If you're out on road on site etc you'll either get a Co Co van or get mileage for private car use. otherwise that's it really...you may well be entirely office based too..you won't be getting rich in Public sector....

brianbrujones

Hi Guys, Im back with more questions! I got called in for an interview for a Technician grade 1 (Civil) Position. Is this mostly a drafting position or would it involve some engineering work? Would it be similar to the assistant engineer role (or is it a case that the technicians are working under the engineers?). Im just trying to get a feel for this role & weather it is a good position within the county council.
Also, do county councils cover college fees if I was to do a relevant part time course (or even provide study leave)?
Any feed back would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Barneyc

Say for one engineering position how many people would be intervied on average

The_Conductor

Barneyc wrote: »

Say for one engineering position how many people would be intervied on average

Bit of a how long is a piece of string question.
Every prospective candidate who meets the terms and conditions of the competition for the post- would be interviewed and a panel of X number of people constituted, from which the current vacant post would be filled.

I.e. if there is one post free- there might be 10 people interviewed for it, 3 placed on a panel, and the current free post offered to the highest person on the panel- and the two other candidates kept on the panel for future vacancies (normally for a set period of 2 years).

It depends on where the post is- and how many suitably qualified people decide to apply for it. But its entirely foreseeable that you could have a not insignificant number of people interviewed for the post.

king_m

kceire wrote: »

You will go in at the bottom of the scale unless you are already in a public service position paying more than the bottom point, in which case, you usually go in at the nearest point to your current salary plus one scale point

Hi Kceire (or any body else that may know),

Do you know where this can be seen in print or which circular it is , I am trying to find its exact location. As I have just started a tech 1 position this week and have been offered an assistant engineers position in my local authority, but i am being told i will have to start at the bottom of the pay scale where my current position is at the second/ third point of the pay scale of Assistant Engineer. So i am trying to save on two years work to get to my current pay scale.

King_M

RockDaddy

Has there been any further update on experienced people entering Local Authority on a higher pay increment? I know SIPTU recommended it over a year ago to attract experienced people, as pay in the private sector is rising.

I have read somewhere else that in some cases your experience can allow you to be moved up the increments now, is this true?

Zipppy

RockDaddy wrote:

I have read somewhere else that in some cases your experience can allow you to be moved up the increments now, is this true?

Not a chance..
For example.. At Engineer level in my L.A. a recent recruit..with years experience in sector and a PhD started on the min...
SIPTU may seek it but doubt it'll happen...

RockDaddy

Zipppy wrote: »

Not a chance..
For example.. At Engineer level in my L.A. a recent recruit..with years experience in sector and a PhD started on the min...
SIPTU may seek it but doubt it'll happen...

Ok, seems ridiculous to be honest.

So if you don't enter the L.A as a graduate you will basically be back to square one if you do later in life!

I'm currently working in private sector, on reasonable salary, fuel allowance, all expenses and a healthy Christmas bonus! If I was offered the position, it would take me nearly a decade to get back up to my current salary!

RockDaddy

Zipppy wrote: »

Not a chance..
For example.. At Engineer level in my L.A. a recent recruit..with years experience in sector and a PhD started on the min...
SIPTU may seek it but doubt it'll happen...

However it does say "Entry to the scale shall be determined having regard to Department circulars".

Alkers

RockDaddy wrote: »

However it does say "Entry to the scale shall be determined having regard to Department circulars".

And normally the next line is a circular stating that all new entrants will be on the first increment for the position.

It basically translates that the best time to move from private to public is when you just meet the entry requirements, if you've twice the minimum experience your salary will likely be far more then the 1st point on the scale.

Gumbo

RockDaddy wrote: »

Ok, seems ridiculous to be honest.

So if you don't enter the L.A as a graduate you will basically be back to square one if you do later in life!

I'm currently working in private sector, on reasonable salary, fuel allowance, all expenses and a healthy Christmas bonus! If I was offered the position, it would take me nearly a decade to get back up to my current salary!

Exactly. Not exactly the gravy train the media would have the public believe over previous years is it.