ATH First Round Match 2 - Mr Nice Guy VS Stereomaniac

beakerjoe

In the 2nd match of the competition and its everyone favorite Draft competitor, Mr Nice Guy going head to head with Stereomaniac, who is new to the game as far as Im aware.

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Q2 : HHH asks you to repackage a member of the WWE roster with a new gimmick, who do you choose and what Gimmick would you choose for them? 1 catch: this Gimmick should be according to Trips something the majority of the audience have not seen before and consider fresh and new.

After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?




Good luck lads!
__________________

Mr.Nice Guy

The person I would choose to repackage is a man that I think has been shamefully underutilised in WWE and that is Wade Barrett.

Why Barrett?

When Barrett first burst on the scene with Nexus it felt like we were witnessing the birth of a new top heel. With his confident presence and booming distinctive voice it wasn't long before Barrett was holding his own with John Cena, the top heel in the company, in major main event programs. It seemed as if his path to the top was assured...but you know of course that never happened.

Barrett has had to contend with extremely poor booking over the past five years such as being removed as leader of Nexus, the spot that had made him, saddled with a much worse group: the Corre, and not to mention poorly booked and totally forgettable IC Title reigns.

With the Bad News Barrett angle, Barrett took what could have been a train-wreck of an idea and got it over but even that too has been sidelined in favour of an angle that is so bad it makes the Corre seem decent: the King Barrett gimmick. Quite why the WWE thought taking a legit badass man and sticking a crown and goofy cape on him would be an improvement, I'm not sure anyone can figure out. What I think we can all agree on, however, is it isn't working.

My suggestion

Barrett has a match with Heath Slater on Raw. Before the match Barrett announces that 2015 has not gone the way he would have liked, especially losing the IC Title at Mania, but he says tonight will be different when he beats Heath Slater...but Slater beats him. Yes, Slater beats him. Barrett sells this as the most disheartening moment of all and the announcers put over what a shock this is and how Barrett has totally lost his way.

They have a rematch on Smackdown - but it's the same result. Slater wins again. Barrett is again shocked at this. Afterwards he meets Slater backstage and references his past with Nexus and says he can't believe he lost to Slater and that it would have never happened five years ago. Slater laughs and says Barrett is not the same man. He adds that sometimes you need to know when to walk away.

It's announced then on social media that Barrett has a major announcement to make the following Raw. It's rumoured he will retire. Sure enough on Raw he comes out wwearing a suit and holding his crown in his hand. He says Slater was right - sometimes you have to know when to walk away. The announcers say it sounds like Barrett is ready to quit. Barrett looks at the crowd and says he hasn't been a worthy King of the Ring. Says he might be the worst one ever. He says he has decided it is time to retire....

Then William Regal's music hits.



Regal comes out and shakes his head in disgust. He references all the great English wrestlers over the years and notes there's never been an English WWE Champion. He notes many people believed he should have been the first but he says no, it should have been Barrett. He says no disrespect to guys like Neville but he always earmarked Barrett as the man to achieve that goal - but he has been a disappointment.

Barrett gets emotional and says that's why he has to walk away but Real begins slapping the piss out of him and screams 'you don't have to walk away, you have to be the man you really are.' He references Barrett's history with bare-knuckle boxing etc. and says Barrett could beat the hell out of every man in that locker room. He says Barrett has been holding back, trying to be someone he is not, when he already has all the tools at his disposal. He just has to look within.

Regal tells him yes you need to retire but you need to retire this - he points to the crown. He says guys like him and Barrett aren't meant to sit their arses on a throne - they were born to fight. He begins slapping Barrett again who is getting more and more fired up.

Finally, Regal says Barrett calls his finisher the Bullhammer. He says that's what Barrett has to be - the Bullhammer of the WWE and he can start with this crown right here. He places the crown under Barrett's feet and urges him to squash it. Barrett looks to the audience who will no doubt cheer as no one gives a toss about that gimmick anyway. Barrett asks one last thing: 'why do you want to help me to the top?' Regal says he is always a man who keeps his promises and he promises Barrett that they will bring everyone in WWE to their knees - not through deference or respect, but through fear. Not with a crown, but with a sword. Barrett then smiles, steps on the crown and shakes Regal's hand. A new alliance is born.

The aftermath

Barrett's new gimmick thus becomes the 'Bullhammer' and like the name suggests his gimmick involves him destroying everythin that Regal perceives to be the 'bull' of the WWE. They start with Slater, of course. Barrett destroys him very quickly. He then turns towards all those who mocked him while he was king: R-Truth gets taken out. Neville is the first big PPV opponent and he gets beaten clean by Barrett.

As the gimmick progresses, Regal finds Barrett new opponents. Take an angle like Dolph/Rusev/Lana for instance. You have an angle where Dolph and Lana are being romantic in the ring with one another when out steps William Regal. He declares how he never liked romance and he considers the whole thing to be...and he waits for the crowd to say it with him, 'bull'. Regal then says he thinks it's time to 'stop the bull' (this would be the new catchphrase). Barrett then comes down and destroys Dolph as Lana watches on.

There's lots of fun ways you could go with this: you could even have Regal come out when Los Matadores are in action and tell the crowd it's time to 'stop the bull'. Barrett then comes down and destroys both men and El Torito.

I think very quickly this double act would get over in a big way and Barrett would likely get very popular in a couple of short months. You could even build to a big match with Lesnar and allow Heyman and Regal cut promos on each other (Barrett would need months of strong booking behind him before this, though).

Why this way?

I think the audience would find this fresh and new as it showcases a talent the audience knows is under-appreciated and misused but allows them to get behind the real person underneath. Barrett, a guy who has been the embodiment of sh*tty gimmicks in 2015, would suddenly become the face of the movement against sh*tty gimmicks through this new anti-bull shtick. You're taking a guy who has been consistently frustrated and you're allowing him to vent that frustration vs all the frustrating things in WWE. I think the fans would get a real kick out of this.



That's it from me. Thanks for reading.

Stereomaniac

Nikki Bella is a bitch. In kayfabe, she's a bitch. In real life she's a bitch. We see her dominating all around her on Monday Night Raw, Total Divas and from what information we've read on various news websites. Brie Bella has remained by her side for the majority of their career together, save for a failed attempt at a feud in the second half of 2014. I think this was Brie's chance to set herself apart, and it didn't work out. I think Brie Bella could really change her character around and make herself as noticeable as her sister who has been pushed so strongly ahead of her in the last 12 months.

I think at the moment it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that the audience would buy it if Nikki starts blaming Brie for her shortcomings. If Charlotte Flair takes the Diva's Championship at Night Of Champions, Nikki would be steaming in the aftermath. The following night I'd have The Bella Twins lose to Paige & Becky Lynch in a tag team match on Raw. Nikki is seething after this and looks in even worse form than the night before, and keeps glancing towards her sister and shaking her head. The following week Nikki teams with Alicia Fox in a rematch against the two women from Team PCB, winning solidly. Backstage, being interviewed Nikki says that everything got back on track this week, having found the right configuration of Team Bella to take on PCB & BAD. When Brie stares at her, Nikki places her hand on Brie's shoulder and says, "Don't worry, you can be the gatekeeper of Team Bella, the outside enforcer who prevents anything fishy from happening." This changes the relationship between the two sisters, and it returns almost to the same dynamic that happened after Nikki won the services of Brie as her manager last year. We see Brie shed a tear in a solo backstage interview at SmackDown later that week and walk away from the interview without explaining herself. At the next edition of Monday Night Raw, Brie accompanies Nikki to the ring and helps her defeat Charlotte in a one on one match. Team Bella looks back on track, but Brie isn't too eager to share in the celebrations, just briefly hugging Nikki and walking back up the ramp. At this point, Nikki is named the number 1 contender for the Diva's Championship at Hell In A Cell, in the first ever Diva's match to be held inside of the structure. At the pay per view, Charlotte and Nikki tear the house down in an ultra violent women's match inside of the cell. When it looks like Charlotte might have Nikki beaten, in the figure four, Brie appears at ringside and takes out the referee with a chair, and takes his key to enter the cell, locking the door behind her. Charlotte breaks the hold, standing up to head off Brie as she enters the cage. Nikki reaches out and trips Charlotte, knocking her into the referee, taking him out. Brie tackles Charlotte with a steel chair to the gut, and lays into her with the kicks to the face that her husband so often used. Brie looks to have really lost the run of herself, picking Charlotte up from her knees and whipping her into the Rack Attack from her sister. At this stage the referee comes around and counts the pinfall, allowing Nikki to regain the Diva's Championship once again. Nikki hugs her sister, but Brie's heart doesn't seem to be in it, and she pulls away from her, regards her for a second, before extending her hand, to shake it. When Nikki places her hand in Brie's, Brie pulls her sister down into the Yes lock, pulling her sister's head back and screaming at the top of her lungs, "WELL DONE NICOLE!!!!" It gets so bad that Charlotte has to pull Brie off of Nikki with the referee, despite having just lost her championship to her. Brie starts crying as the referees fill the cage, having gotten another key from the back. Brie starts to cry and sob in an almost pathetic fashion, repeating, "I'm sorry." As she's led from the ring, she makes another drive for the steel cage she used when entering the cage, and cracks Charlotte and a couple of officials across the back with it.
Brie Bella can really jump off the deep end from here, I feel. Nikki is taken off of television for 3 weeks due to her injuries, to return in time for the go-home Raw leading into Survivor Series. Brie has been on television for a couple of squash matches against Alicia Fox, Cameron, Summer Rae, etc. Charlotte faces Nikki in a rematch at Survivor Series, where Brie jumps the barrier and helps her sister get the win again. Brie Bella has now become The Gatekeeper, ensuring that no one gets past her sister, and using ultra-violent means to achieve this goal. Ultimately, this will change the perception of the Diva's division, as the level of action will have intensified by the time it's done, and will add more shades of grey to the two most recogniseable female stars on the roster. Brie will be the first female in years to frequently use weapons, and fight both faces and heels without being one or the other herself. The feud could play out as far as the Royal Rumble, with the sisters facing off in a match, with Brie going over, and sending Nikki out of action for a few months to decorate John Cena's mansion.

I could keep writing this crap but I could end up just writing for the rest of the day if I do.

Mr.Nice Guy

I like the choice of Brie Bella as she has certainly been overshadowed by Nikki the past year or so and I do think the WWE could have done more with her following the rivalry with Nikki. With that being said, I would have some concerns with elements of the plans mentioned.

The plan is that Nikki would inform Brie she was now the gatekeeper of Team Bella (which I think is a cool name btw) and would basically demote her. We see Brie shedding a tear about the situation and begrudgingly helping Nikki out. She's pretty bummed, it's fair to say. I'm okay with this so far. What I'd worry about is the plan for the pay-off in the Cell match that was described:

When it looks like Charlotte might have Nikki beaten, in the figure four, Brie appears at ringside and takes out the referee with a chair, and takes his key to enter the cell, locking the door behind her. Charlotte breaks the hold, standing up to head off Brie as she enters the cage. Nikki reaches out and trips Charlotte, knocking her into the referee, taking him out. Brie tackles Charlotte with a steel chair to the gut, and lays into her with the kicks to the face that her husband so often used. Brie looks to have really lost the run of herself, picking Charlotte up from her knees and whipping her into the Rack Attack from her sister. At this stage the referee comes around and counts the pinfall, allowing Nikki to regain the Diva's Championship once again.

This seems to mea lot of work to go through for a woman who has been portrayed as emotionally hurting from her sister's recent demotion. This is an important point. She has taken out a ref to get into the Cell, has actively interfered by targeting Charlotte - with weapons as well - and in so doing has helped her sister win the title. So she has effectively at this point embraced the role of 'gatekeeper' of the Bellas.

I quite like that if the plan were to steer Brie in the direction of a heel manager, but then immediately after all this she does the following:

When Nikki places her hand in Brie's, Brie pulls her sister down into the Yes lock, pulling her sister's head back and screaming at the top of her lungs, "WELL DONE NICOLE!!!!"

Why has she done this, then? She had gone through a lot of effort to help her sister win, but then afterwards she lashes out at her? Why? If she was so angry with her sister, why help her win the title match in the first place?

I was also confused about this bit:

It gets so bad that Charlotte has to pull Brie off of Nikki with the referee, despite having just lost her championship to her.

Why would Charlotte care? She has lost the title match thanks to Brie and Nicole. Wouldn't she want to instead take the opportunity provided by them fighting to get revenge on them both for screwing her out of the win? Why would she be bothered in breaking up a fight involving them?

Brie starts crying as the referees fill the cage, having gotten another key from the back. Brie starts to cry and sob in an almost pathetic fashion, repeating, "I'm sorry."

I'm confused about what this accomplishes, though? Are the fans supposed to be on Brie's side here? Or is to make Nikki a sympathetic figure?

As she's led from the ring, she makes another drive for the steel cage she used when entering the cage, and cracks Charlotte and a couple of officials across the back with it

This is why the part involving Charlotte bothered me. So she intervenes between the two women who had both cost her the title match, and the result is she gets another beatdown handed to her. I feel this buries Charlotte unnecessarily rather than gets any of them over.

Brie Bella can really jump off the deep end from here, I feel. Nikki is taken off of television for 3 weeks due to her injuries, to return in time for the go-home Raw leading into Survivor Series. Brie has been on television for a couple of squash matches against Alicia Fox, Cameron, Summer Rae, etc. Charlotte faces Nikki in a rematch at Survivor Series, where Brie jumps the barrier and helps her sister get the win again. Brie Bella has now become The Gatekeeper, ensuring that no one gets past her sister, and using ultra-violent means to achieve this goal.

So now Brie is helping Nikki again? What about when she had beaten Nikki up? Why is Nikki happy to allow Brie remain her gatekeeper when Brie had beat her senseless following the Cell match?

To sum up, whilst I like the selection of Brie and the attempt to get her out of Nikki's shadow, I'm not so sure this is the right way to go about it. She seems to me to work much better as a babyface figure as she seems pleasant enough in reality. I'm not sure the type of 'take no prisoners' badass attitude would really bring out the best in her. I'd also be concerned that we have had quite a few of these crazy type women in recent times, AJ, Alicia Fox, etc. (Becky seems to be lined up as the new 'crazy one'). I'm just not sure we need another one.

Stereomaniac

What I have been aiming for in how I would choose to depict Brie is that she has a mood disorder. Further into the story, long term, I would ideally have her become less lucid and unable to speak a bad word against any of her opponents. I would hope to portray Brie as someone who is suffering with severe depression, who resents her sister for dominating her for her entire life, and at the same time also craves her sister's acceptance and depending on the day of the week is liable to interfere in her match to help her succeed, but also physically reinforce her new dominance if she gets her hands on her afterwards. Brie consistently helps Nikki win and keep the championship as a means of proving a point, and also out of guilt for not being able to be seen as good enough in her eyes. These are all plot points that I feel could be expanded upon through Total Divas (the whole thing is fake anyway), and through the Twitter feeds of Daniel Bryan, and even that WWE doctor who CM Punk loves.

Charlotte becoming involved in breaking up a brawl between the Bella sisters would be in order to highlight how ugly the situation has gotten in the cage, that someone who has been a long-time adversary of them would feel genuine concern for their safety. I feel that Charlotte would ultimately gain sympathy, as a by-product of the angle. The goal here would be to create concern for both sisters, with neither one being a protagonist or an antagonist.

Nikki is unable to stop Brie getting involved in her matches, because Brie has basically upped her game, all the while appearing slightly more and more unstable, yet in a strange way, more and more obsessed with her sister and keeping her champion.


Now, onto Wade Barrett. The King of Bad News. I would love to see an alliance with William Regal. But, as with my own response to Beakerjoe's question, it is purely fantasy booking and speculation on what could possibly happen in an ideal situation if a true fan of wrestling with his finger on the pulse were handed the book for this angle. My main issue here is, why would Wade Barrett need someone to talk for him? Barrett has proven over the last few years that he is more than capable of working a crowd up on the microphone. My only scenario where I could see him possibly needing someone to talk for him would be if he were to become a babyface, a role that I can't remember Barrett ever playing (I'm open to correction here).

I think it's also worth mentioning, that a lot of today's younger audience may have a more ambivalent attitude towards Regal, perhaps not even really knowing who he is. It's fine for the likes of older fans who have been able to appreciate him over time. But how do you explain who William Regal is to a younger audience without it just coming across as, this guy is bad because he sounds like a posh Englishman?

Also, would the live audience really buy into Barrett denouncing himself as possibly the worst King Of The Ring ever? I know that if I were to watch that, I'd be waiting for a punchline to come, and would probably just find him to be weak, making it harder for him to redeem himself in my eyes.

Perhaps I'll leave it there for the moment. Thank you Mr. Nice Guy for your feedback on my own writings and I look forward to seeing what you think next.

KEEP IT KAYFABE BROTHERS

Mr.Nice Guy

I've a bit more understanding on Brie's motives with regards the plan for her to have a mood disorder so thanks for clarifying that. I think it's an interesting idea, though I find myself uneasy that the Divas title appears to become an afterthought with this storyline. There is a big focus on Brie and the idea of her having this biploar type persona, yet it's Nikki that has the title and Nikki who is sometimes helped to retain her title, and yet sometimes attacked by her sister. I'm not sure the audience would quite know what to make of this and how to treat Brie's interference. I think it could lead to some quiet audiences as they'd be confused with what was happening.

As for Charlotte, I get that the idea is to garner sympathy for her but I still think it's a stretch to ask the audience to believe that she would be interested in keeping the peace between the Bellas, when the Bellas would have screwed her out of the title.

---

I'll now look to address the points made on Wade Barrett. Firstly you asked why pair him up with Regal since Barrett can talk for himself. I hear what you're saying and I agree totally that Barrett can more than talk for himself. I want to emphasize my decision to pair Regal with him is not to slight Barrett's promo ability but rather to reintroduce him to the audience in a much more serious fashion by pairing him with a serious character like Regal. To give a modern example, think of when CM Punk was paired with Paul Heyman. Now of course CM Punk did not need anyone to speak for him; the aim rather was to present him in a more serious fashion with an advocate that would constantly put him over as a huge deal to the audience. It worked a treat, and I believe this would too.

With regards the point on the younger audience not knowing William Regal, I don't think this would be the case really. While he hasn't been on mainstream TV regularly in a few years, he has featured regularly on shows such as NXT and would not be a guy I'd lump in the 'will they remember him' category. You said:

But how do you explain who William Regal is to a younger audience without it just coming across as, this guy is bad because he sounds like a posh Englishman?

Even if we do accept the thrust of this argument that a lot of the audience don't know him or have forgotten him, it's not going to be difficult to remind them, is it? You can do it in lots of ways - a video package detailing his career, have various superstars talk about what a legend he is, have the announcers talk about him - (Cole can talk about how Regal knows all about the demands of being a King; JBL can stress he's one of the toughest men ever). Or....and this is probably the easiest and best way...just let Regal talk. Let him tell the crowd himself. He's a fantastic talker and can get himself over if he needs to. Zeb Colter was a complete unknown to WWE fans when he represented Swagger a few years back. If Colter can be accepted, Regal certainly can - especially since he has a WWE history to fall back on.

On the final point, I don't think it would be hard for the audience to believe Barrett saying he is the worst King of the Ring ever. The gimmick sucks and fans are smart to that. He will come across as weak at first; not only that, but broken, and a shell of his former self. That is why Regal will be introduced to help him find his true self. Regal, a legit tough man himself, will awaken the tough man within Barrett. I think it will be capable to redeem him in fan's eyes because as I noted in my original post, Barrett is a legit tough dude with a fighter's background and fans know that this is a guy who can handle himself in a fight, unlike a guy such as The Miz for instance.


That was my second counter-argument post so that will be all from me. I will hand over to Stereomaniac for the last word on the debate.

My thanks to Stereomaniac for the good-natured debate and may the best man win.

Stereomaniac

Thank you for a very well-explained response, Mr. Nice Guy. It truly is a testament to your love of professional wrestling. I am not just saying that because we're in battle here either!

Thank you for expanding on the issues that I brought up regarding William Regal's involvement with Wade Barrett in your proposed storyline. An issue that I perhaps didn't ask you about directly in my first response to you was whether or not Barrett would be positioned as a babyface or a heel. When legends return to WWE, it can often be difficult for them to receive heel heat effectively, because they have been so beloved by certain sections of the audience for so long. In your last post you definitely sold me on the ease Regal could be reintroduced to people with, but now it makes me wonder, would it be possible for him to truly facilitate Wade Barrett in a heel role. Overall though, this idea for the Bullhammer personality would probably work if done without Regal following the initial pep talk I think.


You are quite right in pointing out that the Diva's Championship was not the focal point in the storyline that I presented for Brie Bella. I feel that initially it could serve as fuel to precipitate Nikki's harsh treatment of her sister, but when their initial run of matches between September and January ended, I would believe that the championship may not be necessary for the remainder of their feud. In fact, having arrived at this point from what you pointed out to me above, audiences may find it more cathartic to see Charlotte regain the championship further down the line having been, as Randall Poffo said "a victim of circumstance" losing it months before. The fact that she rescued Nikki only to be attacked by Brie could put her over as a white meat babyface, in my opinion, and would also portray the moment as though perhaps something has gone a little off the map on the show.
Ideally in this scenario we would then go forward seeing two marquee women's matches on each pay per view going forward:
1. Diva's Championship matches, featuring all of the work rate-heavy women on the roster (Sasha, Becky, Charlotte, Natalya, Naomi, Tamina)
2. Bella vs. Bella, with various other women becoming involved/collateral damage as Brie relentlessly stalks her sister.

In one of the most seminal years in professional wrestling history, 1997, characters were often given the chance to develop slightly more naturally than they are nowadays. For example, Steve Austin was originally intended to be a huge heel until the audience decided he was their (anti)hero. Likewise, audiences decided they had had enough of Shawn Michaels' prancing around like a tit and turned on him.
In 2015, women's wrestling has become the in thing for much of the smart crowd, with women gaining more and more attention on shows than ever before. Why not start an angle where the lines are blurred as to where each character stands, in much the same way as it transpired all those years ago at the dawn of the Attitude Era? We hear about Divas Revolution. Well why not have that encompass actual storylines for them now as well?

beakerjoe

Poll added

beakerjoe

BUMP... VOTING CLOSES TOMORROW MORNING....