Winter Frames - Steel, Alu, Ti????

Jim Stynes

I know this has been done to death on numerous forums but I looking some up to date opinions on what sort of frame to go for and what your own experiences of winter frames.

I am wrecking my head on what sort of frame to go for as my new winter/autumn/spring bike. I have looked at lots of options. Should I look for a cheap frame that will do me for a few years and then get a new one or should I look at it as an investment and go for something like Titanium that will last forever?

I know nothing about steel frames but hear people saying they're great for winter etc.

The last winter bike I had (which is now my turbo bike) was a felt alu frame and it would be over 10 year old now. I bought it second hand off a fella who looked after it like a child and has been used over the past few winters. It has take serious abuse on the ****ty roads i live on.

I do love Italian frames but willing to look at other options to. Just a few of the options I have saw online are the following:

http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/products/racelight/gf-ti

http://www.tweekscycles.com/components/road-frames/de-rosa-milanino-training-frameset-2015

http://www.tweekscycles.com/components/road-frames/de-rosa-neo-primato-steel-frameset-2013

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Cannondale/CAAD10-Road-Frameset-2015/4PPB

AmberGold

The only ones there that take full guards are the Kinesis & Milano. For me that's a priority.

Jim Stynes

The mudguards I have been using are completely crap and had my head turned with the noise from rubbing against the tyres.

AmberGold

Jim Stynes wrote: »

The mudguards I have been using are completely crap and had my head turned with the noise from rubbing against the tyres.

Have you considered a frameset with geometry that will allow it to take both 25c tyres and mudguards, no rubbing. A quality mudguard like SKS Chromoplastic won't rub if set up correctly.

Jim Stynes

AmberGold wrote: »

Have you considered a frameset with geometry that will allow it to take both 25c tyres and mudguards, no rubbing. A quality mudguard like SKS Chromoplastic won't rub if set up correctly.

Yeah. Open to suggestions. The favourite de rosa alu frame isn't set up for mudguards but would get it if I thought it would suit clip on mudguards.

cunavalos

have you thought about a genesis frameset. They do a lovely stainless steel model which would make a lovely winter bike but also would not look out of place in any early season races



Frameset is about £900 GBP and will take full mudguards.

http://www.ukbikesdepot.com/m90b0s804p15199/GENESIS_Equilibrium_Stainless_Frameset_2015

Lots of good deals on full genesis steel bikes as well

Jim Stynes

Lovely looking frame! Might be the favourite at the minute!

OleRodrigo

^ I have one - its a lovely bike indeed.

28mm tyres with full length mudguards are perfect for wet weather on bad roads.

Although, its no different than the 725 steel version in terms of performance or weight . If you can get it at a good price, brilliant, if not the steel is also a great option.

comete

I bought a Dolan preffisio frameset for something like 350 delivered with headset bearings and seatpost, will take full guards.

What more do you need?

onthefringe

ive just built up my 3rd steel winter frame in as many years - all genesis..
only change annually for the craic really. ive tryed alloy and carbon too in winter but the steel frames with fixed mudguard eyelets beat them all for me.
bought them all in hollingsworths in killmacud road..he carries a few and can get any of them in short time... worth a spin up for a look...and he also does a good deal on them compared to anywhere else i priced.
also have a volare stainless ( not rode in winter!)..
genesis make really excellent bikes.only flaw ive found on them is the paint on certain models was light.. but the more recent ones are better.
the 725 reynolds frames are beautiful to ride- no rockets now but very comfy, stable and handle really well.
ive bought a croix de fer this time over the equilibriums more for a change than anything but its heavy - proper heavy. Wont bother me as i dont train to race- its literally just a good bike to ride on bad days..which makes those bad days more enjoyable- kinda!

Jim Stynes

OleRodrigo wrote: »

^ I have one - its a lovely bike indeed.

28mm tyres with full length mudguards is perfect for wet weather on bad roads.

Although, its no different than the 725 steel version in terms of performance or weight . If you can get it at a good price, brilliant, if not the steel is also a great option.

You mean it's the same bike but without the mudguard eyelets?

I really love this frame

OleRodrigo

Jim Stynes wrote: »

You mean it's the same bike but without the mudguard eyelets?

No, all the Equilibriums have eyelets for mudguards. This years models have clearance for up to 28mm tyres. I think some of the previous years only had clearance for 25mm with mudguards ( could be wrong ).

outfox

I've 25 mm with full guards. 28 mm would be doable, although tight.
I put a mud flap type thing at the bottom of the front mudguard. Makes a savage difference. BB area stays clean even on a sh1tty day.

Jim Stynes

onthefringe wrote: »

ive just built up my 3rd steel winter frame in as many years - all genesis..
only change annually for the craic really. ive tryed alloy and carbon too in winter but the steel frames with fixed mudguard eyelets beat them all for me.
bought them all in hollingsworths in killmacud road..he carries a few and can get any of them in short time... worth a spin up for a look...and he also does a good deal on them compared to anywhere else i priced.
also have a volare stainless ( not rode in winter!)..
genesis make really excellent bikes.only flaw ive found on them is the paint on certain models was light.. but the more recent ones are better.
the 725 reynolds frames are beautiful to ride- no rockets now but very comfy, stable and handle really well.
ive bought a croix de fer this time over the equilibriums more for a change than anything but its heavy - proper heavy. Wont bother me as i dont train to race- its literally just a good bike to ride on bad days..which makes those bad days more enjoyable- kinda!

What's the weight like compared to an alu frame? Seriously tempted to buy the one that was posted above.

onthefringe

Jim Stynes wrote: »

What's the weight like compared to an alu frame? Seriously tempted to buy the one that was posted above.

To be honest the weight versus a medium level Ali frame isn't much more-
For me steel is less buzzy
That stainless equilibrium is a good frame
Will be stiff enough too if you wana keep up with a group

Jim Stynes

I ride in a group over the winter so mudguards are essential for most of that time. Planning on doing a solid winter of training and getting a lot of base miles done in preparation for racing, so I want a good reliable bike that will last a long time.

onthefringe

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I ride in a group over the winter so mudguards are essential for most of that time. Planning on doing a solid winter of training and getting a lot of base miles done in preparation for racing, so I want a good reliable bike that will last a long time.

Well the frame is only one part of a reliable bike in truth -
A solid group set - and high spoke count wheelset mated to that frame and you have a bike for years of comfortable riding .

OleRodrigo

It is quite responsive for the weight.

pob1

The kinesis racelight 4s is a great frame , light and fast and takes full mudguards and up to 28mm tyres. Got from Shinybikes before exchange rate went up for about €500.

I previous went and got a last forever Van Nicholas Euros which I though would do everything but alas does not take full mudguards .

If I was to choose again only one bike I would probably go for the Van Nicholas Yukon or if I was loaded the Kinesis GF Ti V2.

See below pic of the Kinesis 4s :

https://plus.google.com/115205183093229641939/posts/UDxFT8J5rQb?pid=6192033791729692130&oid=115205183093229641939

OleRodrigo

The Yukon is a lovely bike.

Theres also the Ribble 7005

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bbd/road-track-bike/ribble-7005-audax-winter-training?part=BB14AW7005

..and spa cycles Audax:

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p3202

nilhg

Or there is always the option of having a bike built exactly as you want it,

http://www.bicycledesigncentre.com/arcane-custom-bikes/

They are local to me, I see Brendan's bikes on the road most weeks and the pictures probably don't do them justice.

Jim Stynes

nilhg wrote: »

Or there is always the option of having a bike built exactly as you want it,

http://www.bicycledesigncentre.com/arcane-custom-bikes/

They are local to me, I see Brendan's bikes on the road most weeks and the pictures probably don't do them justice.

What sort of price you talking? i don't think I would pay the extra money for custom building. Want to stay below the 1000 quid mark.

Jim Stynes

Went to buy the Genesis stainless bike from the other page and it's now gone ffs!

Alanbt

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Went to buy the Genesis stainless bike from the other page and it's now gone ffs!

I was looking at that frame too (and a cheaper Equilibrium frame), but Genesis seem to be bringing out the new 2016 frames very soon so the 2015 are basically sold out everywhere.

Ended up going titanium. Ordered a Van Nicholas Ventus yesterday
http://m.fatbirds.co.uk/614766/products/van-nicholas-ventus-titanium-road-frame-with-free-fork-and-headset.aspx

Cheaper than the Genesis, and they include a Deda carbon fork. Delivery was £15, and they were quick to reply to a few queries I had.

€1,150 was what it ended up being.

Haven't received it yet, but hopefully looks good in person!!

cunavalos

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Went to buy the Genesis stainless bike from the other page and it's now gone ffs!

What size frame are you looking for? There is a 56cm left on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Equilibrium-Stainless-Frameset-Stainless-Steel-Frame-Carbon-Fork-/171812942459?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

it may be worthwhile ringing directly as the shop (Paul Milne Cycles) are more of a bricks and mortar type lbs and may do a better deal outside of ebay.

nilhg

Jim Stynes wrote: »

What sort of price you talking? i don't think I would pay the extra money for custom building. Want to stay below the 1000 quid mark.

Sorry, only saw your reply now, no idea on pricing, I presume that would depend on the materials you'd chose, maybe give him a shout and ask?

Jim Stynes

cunavalos wrote: »

What size frame are you looking for? There is a 56cm left on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Equilibrium-Stainless-Frameset-Stainless-Steel-Frame-Carbon-Fork-/171812942459?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

it may be worthwhile ringing directly as the shop (Paul Milne Cycles) are more of a bricks and mortar type lbs and may do a better deal outside of ebay.

Cheers for that! Phoned them. They can do the frame but can't do the finance deal that the other place had. Should have went for it last week!

The rest of the genesis frames are out in November which is a bit far away! Would love that genesis equilibrium in the yellow colour but I think it's only disc and they come as full bikes.

OleRodrigo

2016 is very nice:

http://www.mycycle.ie/Genesis-Equilibrium-725-Frameset-2016-p/genesiseqfs.htm

The Equilbrium 30, with campag (2015 ) is too, but expensive compared to the regular 725 with 105.

http://www.mycycle.ie/Genesis-Equilibrium-30-2015-p/genesiseq30.htm

Jim Stynes

Alanbt wrote: »

I was looking at that frame too (and a cheaper Equilibrium frame), but Genesis seem to be bringing out the new 2016 frames very soon so the 2015 are basically sold out everywhere.

Ended up going titanium. Ordered a Van Nicholas Ventus yesterday
http://m.fatbirds.co.uk/614766/products/van-nicholas-ventus-titanium-road-frame-with-free-fork-and-headset.aspx

Cheaper than the Genesis, and they include a Deda carbon fork. Delivery was £15, and they were quick to reply to a few queries I had.

€1,150 was what it ended up being.

Haven't received it yet, but hopefully looks good in person!!

That is a beauty! Would be very tempted only it doesnt look like to takes mudguards and 25/28mm tyres?

Alanbt

Jim Stynes wrote: »

That is a beauty! Would be very tempted only it doesnt look like to takes mudguards and 25/28mm tyres?

I don't think it does take full mudguards but I'm going to stick raceblades on.
Maybe email fatbirds to confirm. They were good to deal with

benneca1

I have a Yukon. Great bike for winter. It takes full mudguards. Its worth getting Van Nicholas' own as no rattles and they work well. Absolutely lovely ride.

Jim Stynes

Alanbt wrote: »

I don't think it does take full mudguards but I'm going to stick raceblades on.
Maybe email fatbirds to confirm. They were good to deal with

Phoned them. It doesn't have mudguard eyelets. Beautiful frame! Pity.

My winter bike search isn't going too well!

OleRodrigo

Whats the problem?

The Ribble 7005, Spa Cycles Audax and Genesis Equilibrium are all within budget ( frame sub 1000 ? ) with wide tyres and mudguard clearance.

Jim Stynes

http://www.merlincycles.com/guerciotti-record-steel-road-frame-83444.html

Saw this as well and quite liked it

Jim Stynes

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Whats the problem?

The Ribble 7005, Spa Cycles Audax and Genesis Equilibrium are all within budget ( frame sub 1000 ? ) with wide tyres and mudguard clearance.

I like the stainless steel version of the genesis but not the rust coloured one. Terrible colour scheme.

ford2600

For winter on shirty roads the frame material is next to irrelevant.

Wide rims, wide tyres, rugged tyres, ability to fit proper mudguards (race blades etc are a fragile compromise) and the obvious thing like a comfortable geometry.

Most frames that tick the clearance/mudguard box just happen to be steel/titanium but there is no reason carbon/aluminium /wood wouldn't work.

Disc brakes make a actual bombproof wheels a possibility but rim brakes work fine to but at at a cost of rim wear.

A drive train you don't care about or like to care for a lot are the other choices.

Cut away the usual marketing horse**** and that's about all there is to it.

Seweryn

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I know this has been done to death on numerous forums but I looking some up to date opinions on what sort of frame to go for and what your own experiences of winter frames.

For me the "winter frame" term is non existent. I ride one bike every week of the year in all conditions, which are quite same through the year in fairness. I see no point in a specific seasonal bike, when the one (best and most comfortable) does all the job I require. This way, because it is my best and only bike, I ride and enjoy it more than I would if I had another (inferior) bike.

However, if you are looking for a new, good quality bike that will do it all, I would go with a custom made bike (possibly steel).

I recently visited a nice custom bike frame workshop while being on holidays abroad. I was simply amazed with the stuff I have seen there. You can order your frame from various types of steel (or other materials) with any details you want, any fittings (including mudguard eyelets, of course), with a bottom bracket type of your choice, with the seat tube angle you prefer, and the head tube length and angle you like. And most of all, it is quite reasonable in terms of price. I am now considering to order a new frame, however the only problem I have is the choice of all the options available . And the most important thing - the custom sizing for me is a must due to my "out of standard" body proportions.

onthefringe

Seweryn wrote: »

For me the "winter frame" term is non existent. I ride one bike every week of the year in all conditions, which are quite same through the year in fairness. I see no point in a specific seasonal bike, when the one (best and most comfortable) does all the job I require. This way, because it is my best and only bike, I ride and enjoy it more than I would if I had another (inferior) bike.

However, if you are looking for a new, good quality bike that will do it all, I would go with a custom made bike (possibly steel).

I recently visited a nice custom bike frame workshop while being on holidays abroad. I was simply amazed with the stuff I have seen there. You can order your frame from various types of steel (or other materials) with any details you want, any fittings (including mudguard eyelets, of course), with a bottom bracket type of your choice, with the seat tube angle you prefer, and the head tube length and angle you like. And most of all, it is quite reasonable in terms of price. I am now considering to order a new frame, however the only problem I have is the choice of all the options available . And the most important thing - the custom sizing for me is a must due to my "out of standard" body proportions.

tell us where u seen these babies been manufactured and how much??! ;-)

Seweryn

onthefringe wrote: »

tell us where u seen these babies been manufactured and how much??! ;-)

I am not sure if that is allowed here, however their website is so poor, there are no photos or details there, so not much point anyway. I can discuss some details if you want to PM me. I have no connection with the business though .
The prices depend on many details, especially the type of steel you select, but in one word you would pay comparable money to an of the shelf frameset.

I took some shots when walking around the workshop. Here is one made of Columbus MAX tubes. The Master allowed me to test its stiffness in that jig . I like the welds and finishes. It really looks like a proper hand made product...

onthefringe

Seweryn wrote: »

I am not sure if that is allowed here, however their website is so poor, there are no photos or details there, so not much point anyway. I can discuss some details if you want to PM me. I have no connection with the business though .
The prices depend on many details, especially the type of steel you select, but in one word you would pay comparable money to an of the shelf frameset.

I took some shots when walking around the workshop. Here is one made of Columbus MAX tubes. The Master allowed me to test its stiffness in that jig . I like the welds and finishes. It really looks like a proper hand made product...

the chainstays on that cyclocross in the backround!!! lurve!!!!!!!!!!!
pm the details.. stuff looks nice

mossym

dropped my mtb into a new shop yesterday to get the hydraulics services, don't have the bleed kit (road bikes so much easier to work on). while there, discovered the shop is starting to do hand made bikes, in steel. custom built. tempted by the idea of a hand built custom spec'd bike with disc brakes,mudguard mounts built locally.

MediaMan

mossym wrote: »

dropped my mtb into a new shop yesterday to get the hydraulics services, don't have the bleed kit (road bikes so much easier to work on). while there, discovered the shop is starting to do hand made bikes, in steel. custom built. tempted by the idea of a hand built custom spec'd bike with disc brakes,mudguard mounts built locally.

Keeping the name a secret so you can have the full selection to yourself???

Fian

Is there some difficulty i am unaware of with riding carbon frames in winter? Does the temperature affect them or something?

Mind you I intend to ride my previous aluminium bike on wet/mucky days this winter in preference to my new carbon one anyway, but that is just because the new one is too pretty to expose to the muck and rain. :P

I would have thought winter "components" would be more relevant than frames - since they are going to get dirtier during the winter I could see cheaper components being beneficial. Obviously mudguards and decent lights are also more important in winter time.

And disc brakes - but I have those on my new bike and not on my previous bike that will be designated for winter use.

OleRodrigo

Ultimately, it boils down to a bad weather bike and a bike you like to take out when the sun is shining.

Cheaper components will wear out and need to be replaced so it probably makes no difference. Keeping it clean after every ride probably will . Mind you, I say that as I have to store my bikes indoors and dont have a choice.

ford2600

http://shop.18bikes.co.uk/m1b0s596p2438/GENESIS-Datum-10-2016

A carbon version of the equilibrium (kinda) with disc brakes. Not cheap, well over 2k for a tiagra equipped version

Jim Stynes

Ended up getting this frame for £400 sterling. On the lookout for disc breaks now! Club colours so I am happy enough!