Nissan Leaf and some general EV Qs

segadreamcast

A few quick questions if somebody can oblige me:

ESB Domestic chargers - I presume first 2,000 are long exhausted at this stage? Can't find much online. Maybe not using right terms.

Public charging - it seems the feeling here is this will be no longer free as of 31/12/16, is that right?

Importing Vs Buying Domestic - what are the thoughts? No VRT on imports, so I could get a 2014 Leaf for ballpark £10-12k or go for a newer one with the SEAI grant here. Any thoughts? Battery tech obviously improves in newer models.

I won't be making the jump until January so have a bit of time on this one but it's definitely the road I want to go down and I'm pretty sure it'll be a Leaf (had toyed with idea of a Twizzy but I think practicality had to come into it at some stage...)

toadfly

The home chargers not all used up. You get one with a new car only, not an imported second hand.

Electrics are not vet free anymore as cross13 said , not exact quote " electrics are not VRT free anymore since the appearance of proper electrics started to appear"

They qualify for a 5 k reduction in VRT. Not sure how much VRT is on a leaf.

In my opinion electrics should be VRT free and have half VAt applied to encourage the uptake of electrics so that people can start talking about how good they are and more people get the message. It's my understanding that we pay a lot of money to buy carbon credits because we can't meet our emissions targets.

Anyway OP what is your daily usage, the current gen Leaf will be good up to 75 miles winter and about 80-90 summer. About 120 Kms winter and 130-140 Kms summer and 160 Kms is achievable in good summer conditions, and depending on the terrain, usually c roads are good for range.

There is an updated battery coming for 2016 with about 30 extra Kms.

The battery in the late 2013 + leaf is much better than the one in the 2011-13 i could easily see the leaf at average mileage being usable for 10-15 years, though that depends on the effects calendar life has on it.

Mid to Late 2017 will be the magical year for electrics, 150-200 miles real range will start to appear appear.

I drive about 134 Kms daily and stop for 10 mins , I have done it off me charge but it requires driving at speeds slower than I like, I don't drive too easy, 100-110 kph with s me 120 stints and stopping for 10 mins isn't bad for me but the updated batter would most likely mean I wouldn't have to stop.

I've driven 18,300 Kms since Mid January. Love the car won't go back to ice again. Though I do admit to driving my partners diesel for the really long drive the few times a year but that's mainly to keep miles off for the lease.

Roen

Your username...did you know the CPU from the Dreamcast is used in the Leaf's infotainment system? You were destined for one!

By the way, the Renault Zoe is a good car too, it's got the most powerful on board charger of any EV in the world too and can charge from our non fast chargers from 0-80% in 1 hr and 1 hr 30 mins to 100% but will take less time because you'll never arrive at a charge point with an empty battery.

You have to lease the battery but I wouldn't let that turn you off. Go take a spin in one.

segadreamcast

Roen wrote: »

Your username...did you know the CPU from the Dreamcast is used in the Leaf's infotainment system? You were destined for one!

No I did not --- that is phenomenal !!

Thanks for the replies

mr.dunkey

few people have gone down this route, there are pros and cons, Sterling vs euro being the biggest Con.
LEAFs may look cheap in uk but they sell a battery rental version called FLEX, watch these they are cheaper but cannot import to ireland.
Lots of used Evs in Ireland now

Vrt allowance rather than exempt

Home chargers are not too expensive if you shop around or get a second hand one as people upgrade

DrPhilG

Deleted User wrote: »

Electrics are not vet free anymore as cross13 said , not exact quote " electrics are not VRT free anymore since the appearance of proper electrics started to appear"

They qualify for a 5 k reduction in VRT. Not sure how much VRT is on a leaf.

My (vague) understanding of it is that they are as near as damned free in that you'd need to have a hell of a valuable car to attract any VRT. Because the VRT percentages are emissions based you're unlikely to have a valuable enough car to face a fee.

I imported a 14 month old Tekna and paid nothing.

Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any option on the VRT calculator to check a Tesla!

cros13

DrPhilG wrote: »

My (vague) understanding of it is that they are as near as damned free in that you'd need to have a hell of a valuable car to attract any VRT. Because the VRT percentages are emissions based you're unlikely to have a valuable enough car to face a fee.

I imported a 14 month old Tekna and paid nothing.

Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any option on the VRT calculator to check a Tesla!

I paid more than €7,500 in VRT AFTER the credit on my i3. The Model S was going to attract at least €10k of VRT after the credit.

It's ridiculous, they need to eliminate VRT on electrics, this Government is as anti green as they come. However the greens weren't exactly green either, look at all the diesel cars now on the road because of their ridiculous misguided believe that Co2 is a pollutant! Muppets that run this country never cease to amaze me.

pavelpro

cros13 wrote: »

I paid more than €7,500 in VRT AFTER the credit on my i3. The Model S was going to attract at least €10k of VRT after the credit.

How old was an i3 when you brought it here?
I was putting some quotes for i3 and only REX available on revenue calculator still for 2013 it is quoting around 3k.
7.5k quite a lot for electric

NIMAN

If I was to buy a Leaf, and the 80 mile range would last me the guts of a full working week of Mon - Fri is terms of my commute, picking up kids etc, should I Still plug it in every night to thats its always fully charged in the morning, or is it best to run the battery low and then charge it from say 10% to full again once a week?

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

If I was to buy a Leaf, and the 80 mile range would last me the guts of a full working week of Mon - Fri is terms of my commute, picking up kids etc, should I Still plug it in every night to thats its always fully charged in the morning, or is it best to run the battery low and then charge it from say 10% to full again once a week?

With all that's known about lithium batteries it's best to shallow cycle, in other words use 40-80 or better 50-70 %

You can set the timer to charge for about 2-3 hours at 16 amps or 3.3 Kw. after a while you'll know how long it will take to get from xx % - xx% .

When I'm off work I charge to 70-80% and charge back up again from 40-50% back to 70-80%.

If I'm not using the car I leave it sit at 50% lithium batteries don't like to sit at too high or too low state of charge for long.

If you need the charge then use it there's not point worrying about it.

The Leaf has a few % hidden top and bottom so it never fully charges or discharges but despite that it's still best not to fully charge or discharge (according to the Leaf ) unless you really need to.

If you intend to keep the car many years all the above matters , if you intend to keep it 2-3 years then it matters less.

There's an option called "long life mode" and you can set the car that it will only charge to 80% which is always a good idea if you don;t need the range.

Dexter1979

NIMAN wrote: »

If I was to buy a Leaf, and the 80 mile range would last me the guts of a full working week of Mon - Fri is terms of my commute, picking up kids etc, should I Still plug it in every night to thats its always fully charged in the morning, or is it best to run the battery low and then charge it from say 10% to full again once a week?

If it's your only car I nearly would for emergency situations. If not it's up to you.

I wouldn't charge it fully every day when you don't need to. I'd keep it between 50-80%.

You really shouldn't charge the battery until it goes below 80% and it states this in the manual. And it also states that keeping it charged too high or leaving it too low is also not good and all this will effect your warranty should you need it. This car records all your charging habits, every single time you plug in it's logged and it records what % you plugged in what type of charger it's plugged into and how you fast charge etc. This data is sent to Japan as well as being logged in the cars computer.

I would get the 6.6 Kw charger , it costs 900 Euro's extra but it can charge twice as fast as the standard charger from a standard street charge point. The fast chargers if one is close to you can be used if you need to go somewhere whether you have the standard 3.3 Kw or 6.6 Kw.

You can also get installed the 32 amp home charging unit which will make a big difference if you find you will charge a lot during the day but it will cost twice as much, just under 4 Euro's compared to about 1.90 on night rate but if you need to top up fast 32 amp home charging (6.6 Kw) would be really convenient. You can get from 25% to 90% in about 2 hrs compared to 4 with the standard 3.3 Kw charger.

The 32 amp home charge point is not installed as standard but some are lucky to get it, if you charge mainly at night like I do then you don't really need it. You can see how you get on with the 3.3 Kw. But the 6.6 Kw charger in the leaf itself makes a big difference while out and about, even though you can fast charge from the 45 Kw DC fast chargers the 6.6 Kw means the car could be charged or almost by the time you get back to it and won't then have to go find a fast charger, just get in and drive off, you could also find yourself having to wait at a fast charger for quiet some time. Trust me, I would never have the standard 3.3 Kw in the leaf. Even if it's something you would not use a lot it's far better to have it than want it.


I hope I'm not confusing you if I am let me know I will try explain it better.

DrPhilG

I generally charge to 100% over the weekend, drive until about 20%, fast charge up to 80% and that takes me to the weekend when I charge to 100% again.

Obviously there is the occasional charge in between if I go somewhere different, like yesterday I went from Derry to Coleraine so popped up to the FCP at Portrush and went to 85%.

I'm safe enough with that kind of schedule aren't I?

Padraig Mor

Most days I charge mine to 80% at work, and return the next day with 15 - 30% left. Friday I go to 100% and hope it lasts the weekend! Not this Friday though - tomorrow it's Cobh - Tralee and back!

NIMAN

Some of your answers are bringing up more questions! Hope you don't mind folks?

Firstly, it's mentioned that you 'charge up to 80%'. When you plug in the leaf at say 10% battery, can you tell it to stop at 80 or 75 or any chosen max level?

Secondly, Mad Lad you say that the slow charger takes 4hrs to go from 25 to 90%. I always heard that a full overnight charge would take 10hrs? By those calculations surely it would take more than 4hrs to go from 25 to 90? 6 to 7 hrs

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

I generally charge to 100% over the weekend, drive until about 20%, fast charge up to 80% and that takes me to the weekend when I charge to 100% again.

Obviously there is the occasional charge in between if I go somewhere different, like yesterday I went from Derry to Coleraine so popped up to the FCP at Portrush and went to 85%.

I'm safe enough with that kind of schedule aren't I?

I don't see anything wrong with this if you can't use the car any other way then I wouldn't worry about it especially if you intend to keep only 3-5 years depending on mileage you intend to drive.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Most days I charge mine to 80% at work, and return the next day with 15 - 30% left. Friday I go to 100% and hope it lasts the weekend! Not this Friday though - tomorrow it's Cobh - Tralee and back!

Again wouldn't worry much if this is the charging pattern you must stick to.

the 131+ leafs seem to be lasting a lot longer than the 2011-131 leafs so I'd be more cautious with the original leaf than the 131+.

With the original Leaf I would limit fast charging to no more than 2 a day and charge from 50-80% as much as possible. With the 131+ leafs I don't think I would worry unless you were fast charging it to the red temp zone a lot.

They have changed the battery chemistry and no one really knows what's changed, they could have improved cycle life , i.e, charging and discharging. And heat durability.

Remember the U.K Leaf taxi with 102,000 miles with a loss of 10% 1,777 fast charges and 5,500 odd normal charges ? that's clearly a change to the battery from the 2011.

The main thing I would not do to the leaf battery be it the 2011-131 or 131+ is charge it to 100% and leave it sitting that high for more than a couple of hours on a regular basis the same for sitting at a low state of charge, below 20%.

The other ultimate no no is frequent fast charging to the red or close. Be it 2011-131 or 131+ (some 131 may have the older battery)

With big batteries you don't need to worry because you can afford some battery degradation, for instance a 90 Kwh model S with 30% loss will still mean about 200 miles range,

NIMAN

These kind of rules around the batteries are another thing that adds to the reasons not to buy an EV and probably put people off.

None of that to deal with in an ICE car.

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

These kind of rules around the batteries are another thing that adds to the reasons not to buy an EV and probably put people off.

None of that to deal with in an ICE car.

Given the choice between dealing with those guidelines (not rules) and spending the extra €2500 a year on my old ICE, you can tell what I'm sticking with.

Soarer

Would this Leaf frighten anyone? Leaf

Average daily mileage around 20 miles per day.

pwurple

Soarer wrote: »

Would this Leaf frighten anyone? Leaf

Average daily mileage around 20 miles per day.

What's scary there?

NIMAN

DrPhilG wrote: »

Given the choice between dealing with those guidelines (not rules) and spending the extra €2500 a year on my old ICE, you can tell what I'm sticking with.

Totally understandable. I am actually a believer in EVs and seriously considered one when changing cars at the
start of the year. Might end getting one next time.

But you can understand those who see these things as limitations, can't you. They like to be able to fill with fuel and go, not worrying about guidelines after that. Having to stop half way on a journey and eat something while your car refills isn't acceptable to a lot of the car buying public. If running costs aren't an issue, then you can see how an ice is the answer.

Benny_Cake

NIMAN wrote: »

Some of your answers are bringing up more questions! Hope you don't mind folks?

Firstly, it's mentioned that you 'charge up to 80%'. When you plug in the leaf at say 10% battery, can you tell it to stop at 80 or 75 or any chosen max level?

Secondly, Mad Lad you say that the slow charger takes 4hrs to go from 25 to 90%. I always heard that a full overnight charge would take 10hrs? By those calculations surely it would take more than 4hrs to go from 25 to 90? 6 to 7 hrs

There is a "long life" battery mode which stops charging once the battery reaches 80%. I use this during the week, and at the weekend I usually charge it to 100%.

The thing to avoid is parking it up at a very high or very low state of charge for an extended period. Don't leave it in long-term parking at the airport at 100% for a few weeks! Aside from that, I don't really think about it.

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

Totally understandable. I am actually a believer in EVs and seriously considered one when changing cars at the
start of the year. Might end getting one next time.

I wish I had done it earlier. Changed the car in April 2014 and dismissed the wife's suggestion of electric without really looking into it. A year later I realised my mistake and we changed. I only got €10k back on the ICE I paid €15k for a year earlier. But even with that the change made financial sense because the sooner I change, the sooner I start to save.

NIMAN wrote: »

But you can understand those who see these things as limitations, can't you. They like to be able to fill with fuel and go, not worrying about guidelines after that. Having to stop half way on a journey and eat something while your car refills isn't acceptable to a lot of the car buying public.

Of course they are limitations. But I tend to look at it the other way around now that I own an EV.

Don't you see the extra €2500 a year as a limitation?

The limitations on me as a driver are relatively small. My day to day driving doesn't require charging. I only charge during the week at the public FCP because I don't have my night tariff meter in yet (going in on Monday). Once that goes in I'll charge less in public unless I'm on a long trip.

I go to Cork once a year, which I managed this year with no issues (only 2 weeks into my EV ownership) and the occasional Belfast or Dublin run (maybe 3 to Belfast and 2 to Dublin per year) are easy to manage with the public charging. Particularly Belfast, one short stop at the Glenshane and I'm off.

NIMAN wrote: »

If running costs aren't an issue, then you can see how an ice is the answer.

If paying the mortgage wasn't an issue I'd buy a mansion in LA and an apartment in New York!

I suppose running costs may not be an issue for some (company car etc) but for the majority it is and IMO the majority would greatly benefit from changing to electric, but it's just too scary at the minute.

The longer range 2017 model will be a big thing IMO.

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

Would this Leaf frighten anyone? Leaf

Average daily mileage around 20 miles per day.

pwurple wrote: »

What's scary there?

From what I can tell, a couple of the cells are gone (going by the display?).

Roen

Well it can't have been that bad, looks like it's sold

Benny_Cake

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The thing to avoid is parking it up at a very high or very low state of charge for an extended period. Don't leave it in long-term parking at the airport at 100% for a few weeks! Aside from that, I don't really think about it.

Yes this is really good, parked at the airport for a few weeks at 100% or above 80% is a big no no.

Best to store at 50%

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

From what I can tell, a couple of the cells are gone (going by the display?).

I don't see anything , add is gone ?

Any details , how many bars gone ? what year was it ?

The 2014 + model year battery is far more robust than the 2011-14.