House alarms - what's the point?

gutenberg

After listening to one neighbour's alarm this morning for 20 minutes, and now another one's has just gone off, it makes me wonder should the old-style house alarms be banned? The ones that just ring & ring for 15-20 minutes (or longer, if you're unlucky).

In the established estate where my parents live (90% of the street has lived there for 20+ years), no one pays any heed when alarms go off: no one checks the house to see if there's a problem, they just wait for the alarm to stop. What's the point of the alarm then, and is it just irritating noise pollution?

Would a move towards alarm systems that are monitored, so that you get a phone call rather than just a siren that wakes your neighbours, be better in modern-day cities? I know having an alarm can help with house insurance, but should it be contingent on having one of the newer types?

Thoughts welcome!

Shenshen

Personally, I'd welcome a ban on the old, driving-the-neighbours-round-the-bend-types.
As you said, I've yet to see anyone reacting to them. I do suspect that in some cases, the neighbours would actually be likely to help the burglars and carry stuff out for them, just to get back at the guys with the bloody annoying alarm.

Mena

Back home, we had armed response tied into the alarm. Many a time I almost got shot dead forgetting the code after a night on the piss.

Without that though, pointless.

gutenberg

Shenshen wrote: »

Personally, I'd welcome a ban on the old, driving-the-neighbours-round-the-bend-types.
As you said, I've yet to see anyone reacting to them. I do suspect that in some cases, the neighbours would actually be likely to help the burglars and carry stuff out for them, just to get back at the guys with the bloody annoying alarm.

Many a time I have been tempted to climb up to a neighbour's alarm & smash it... Or just hope they were in fact getting robbed

salamanca22

gutenberg wrote: »

After listening to one neighbour's alarm this morning for 20 minutes, and now another one's has just gone off, it makes me wonder should the old-style house alarms be banned? The ones that just ring & ring for 15-20 minutes (or longer, if you're unlucky).

In the established estate where my parents live (90% of the street has lived there for 20+ years), no one pays any heed when alarms go off: no one checks the house to see if there's a problem, they just wait for the alarm to stop. What's the point of the alarm then, and is it just irritating noise pollution?

Would a move towards alarm systems that are monitored, so that you get a phone call rather than just a siren that wakes your neighbours, be better in modern-day cities? I know having an alarm can help with house insurance, but should it be contingent on having one of the newer types?

Thoughts welcome!

Alarms can only operate externally for 15 minutes maximum. You can contact the EPA if it exceeds that.

gutenberg

salamanca22 wrote: »

Alarms can only operate externally for 15 minutes maximum. You can contact the EPA if it exceeds that.

I do know that. My question is about whether those types of alarms, even if they ring for "just" 15 minutes, should be allowed any more, given that 1) hardly anyone pays them any heed, and 2) even 15 minutes' worth of ringing is a significant source of noise pollution in a built-up area.

darkpagandeath

Cheaper house insurance apparently, Because of wahhh wahhhh wahhhh.

Toots

salamanca22 wrote: »

Alarms can only operate externally for 15 minutes maximum. You can contact the EPA if it exceeds that.

What about internally? I live in an apartment and there's this auld one that lives on the ground floor whose alarm goes off all the time. When you're outside the building you can't hear it all that badly, but inside the whole block can hear it. I'm one floor up, and at the opposite side of the building, but it'd still wake me if it went off at night. She went down the country for new years and the alarm was going from around lunch time NYE until she arrived home on 2nd of January. :mad:

salamanca22

Toots wrote: »

What about internally? I live in an apartment and there's this auld one that lives on the ground floor whose alarm goes off all the time. When you're outside the building you can't hear it all that badly, but inside the whole block can hear it. I'm one floor up, and at the opposite side of the building, but it'd still wake me if it went off at night. She went down the country for new years and the alarm was going from around lunch time NYE until she arrived home on 2nd of January. :mad:

I would be contacting the management company, surely there is maximum noise rules for the buidling.

beauf

They are certainly pointless where neighbours aren't interested.

It probably depends on the area, if no one talks to other, doesn't know each other, and couldn't care less if their alarm doesn't turn off, or if the neighbours are getting robbed.

Massimo Cassagrande

Toots wrote: »

What about internally? I live in an apartment and there's this auld one that lives on the ground floor whose alarm goes off all the time. When you're outside the building you can't hear it all that badly, but inside the whole block can hear it. I'm one floor up, and at the opposite side of the building, but it'd still wake me if it went off at night. She went down the country for new years and the alarm was going from around lunch time NYE until she arrived home on 2nd of January. :mad:

You should have burgled her yourself. Just because.

IvyTheTerrible

Toots wrote: »

What about internally? I live in an apartment and there's this auld one that lives on the ground floor whose alarm goes off all the time. When you're outside the building you can't hear it all that badly, but inside the whole block can hear it. I'm one floor up, and at the opposite side of the building, but it'd still wake me if it went off at night. She went down the country for new years and the alarm was going from around lunch time NYE until she arrived home on 2nd of January. :mad:

Happened with a neighbour of mine in a housing estate. EPA couldn't do anything, guards couldn't do anything, and as it was a second house (the guy only lived in it part of the week for work), no-one in the estate had his contact details.

The only satisfaction from being kept awake, was that the alarm was set off by a bird which had come down the chimney and shat all over the living room.

Toots

salamanca22 wrote: »

I would be contacting the management company, surely there is maximum noise rules for the buidling.

There is; alarms are supposed to shut off after 20 minutes, and your emergency contacts are supposed to be able to go in and turn it off if you can't be reached. I rang the management company and I think pretty much every other neighbour did also. I felt really sorry for the ones who shared a corridor with her, because it would have been unbearable. Apparently they'd been contacting her constantly but she wasn't answering her phone. :mad:

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

You should have burgled her yourself. Just because.

I feckin would and all, only she drives a clapped out little starlet covered in Padre Pio stickers, so I reckon it'd have been slim pickings loot-wise

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Happened with a neighbour of mine in a housing estate. EPA couldn't do anything, guards couldn't do anything, and as it was a second house (the guy only lived in it part of the week for work), no-one in the estate had his contact details.

The only satisfaction from being kept awake, was that the alarm was set off by a bird which had come down the chimney and shat all over the living room.

I'd have been tempted to take a sh1t in her living room, only I'm informed that poo contains DNA Although I do have 2 dogs with very active bowels, so if it happens again I might get creative.

PixelTrawler

I work from home and id say on average daily about 5 to 7 alarms go off near me. They usually start about 8 am. So its a constant noise problem. Drives me nuts. Nobody ever checks on them. All they do is let burglars know your house is empty.

Id have them banned in a heartbeat.

Id ban yapping mutts too but thats another thread

Notavirus.exe

gutenberg wrote: »

it makes me wonder should the old-style house alarms be banned?

They should be banned. It'd make my job easier.

gutenberg

PixelTrawler wrote: »

I work from home and id say on average daily about 5 to 7 alarms go off near me. They usually start about 8 am. So its a constant noise problem. Drives me nuts. Nobody ever checks on them. All they do is let burglars know your house is empty.

Id have them banned in a heartbeat.

Id ban yapping mutts too but thats another thread

I'm in the same situation, when I'm home at my parents I work at home (I'm a postgraduate researcher) and the alarms are just constant, it's ridiculous. It's a low-crime area generally, so often they're just being set off by the wind! :mad:

I also agree about the dogs to be perfectly honest (specifically the one across the street)...

Mr.Crinklewood

Mena wrote: »

Back home, we had armed response tied into the alarm. Many a time I almost got shot dead forgetting the code after a night on the piss.

Without that though, pointless.

How is Oscar anyway?

Davidth88

Pet hate of mine ....... I call it the sound of the housing estate

Our neighbours had a very annoying one , they used to go out all the time with the windows open and the wind would set it off.

One time they went on holiday , it went off 3 nights in a row at 2am and the exterior alarm would switch off after 20 mins but the klaxon inside would keep going for ever ..... and they are attached to us .

After 3 nights of little sleep we found out the guys brother's name/number and rang him he came and reset it. Then the next night it went off again at 2am..... nice early call to the brother ( who was less that happy ... tough ! ) .

And the next night .......same story ( you can imagine the reaction to a 2-3am call )


Anyway when they got home from holiday the brother must have given out yards because we got a knock on the door from the neighbour saying sorry and explaining the ' had a faulty sensor ' ... anyway it had hardly gone off since.

pippip

I have a basic alarm and just decided to take it off my insurance. Premium went up 30euro. The broker actually mentioned they advise people not to put alarm on their insurance anymore as they are so strict on its use now which voids payouts.

Dubwat

I live in a low-crime estate and the house alarms never go off at night-time. My days off are usually midweek.

First alarm is about 4 doors up at 7.30am as, I guess, homeowner or dog sets off the kitchen sensor. Almost every bloody day.

Then 7 or 8 alarms will go off during the day until the owners return from work at 5pm and turn off their alarms.

No alarms during the night until 7.30am the following morning when homeowner/dog sets off alarm.



Maybe alarms could be fitted with some sort of recording device. So if neighbours complained, the EPA/Gardai etc could look at the record and see definitive proof that the alarm did indeed go off 25 times during the month. And then fine the feckers, lol.

gutenberg

Dubwat wrote: »

Maybe alarms could be fitted with some sort of recording device. So if neighbours complained, the EPA/Gardai etc could look at the record and see definitive proof that the alarm did indeed go off 25 times during the month. And then fine the feckers, lol.

That's a good suggestion.

seamus

Yeah, it really does depend on the area. Where I am, alarms never go off. So if someone's was going off for more than a minute, one of the neighbours would pop out and take a look.

But in the last place, there was one that always went off when it was windy. You knew it was that one though because the outside bell was wonky. When others went off, I did look in to see if everything was OK a couple of times.

Outside bell notwithstanding, part of the purpose of the inside bell is to ensure the resident is woken up when someone tries to break in. What burglars want, above all else, is to get in and out without encountering anyone.
Instances of people being tied up or attacked are ridiculously rare. If there is a man or a woman in the house between 16 and 60, there's a very good chance that they could do some serious damage to you, and at the very least are going to delay you by five minutes (giving the guards loads of time to arrive) or potentially ID you. Burglars just don't want that and will bolt as soon as they realise someone is awake.

CIP4

Our alarm just texts us when it goes of giving detail of what has set it off etc. we can then turn it off and back on if we want by text from anywhere in the world. I can't see any issue with it.

But I would agree with people about alarms constantly going off and people not knowing/ turning them off its very annoying.

chelbi

CIP4 wrote: »

Our alarm just texts us when it goes of giving detail of what has set it off etc. we can then turn it off and back on if we want by text from anywhere in the world. I can't see any issue with it.

But I would agree with people about alarms constantly going off and people not knowing/ turning them off its very annoying.

Hi CIP4, I am looking to install an alarm that sends texts also, I made enquiries about on at a local electrical shop but I didn't get much help on it. I'm wondering if you can help? Basically we are looking to install one all the wiring is there for it but we are not sure what kind of alarm has the text facility and do we need and additional wiring for that option. We do have a landline. Any info would be appreciated.
Chelbi

CIP4

chelbi wrote: »

Hi CIP4, I am looking to install an alarm that sends texts also, I made enquiries about on at a local electrical shop but I didn't get much help on it. I'm wondering if you can help? Basically we are looking to install one all the wiring is there for it but we are not sure what kind of alarm has the text facility and do we need and additional wiring for that option. We do have a landline. Any info would be appreciated.
Chelbi

I can't remember the exact system we have but it's a HKC system wired which is one of the better manufacturers of alarms. Now I'm no expert on them but you have two options either landline or SIM card. For SIM card which we have you need a GSM module which slots into the alarm system and is about 150-200 euro extra from that you code in the numbers and it will text them in event of it going off or power cuts etc. You then just top up the SIM card every so often. Our one was installed by a registered electrical contractor so they did everything. But ultimately if you want a SIM card you need this GSM module added. I think kellehers electrical stock HKC alarms and they have branches throughout Ireland. I personally would go for a decent brand like HKC that will last. Sure if there is any other questions you have you can pm me if you want.

http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/product/sw-10120-wired/control-panels/#.VrDk70W6CnM

Pedro K

My road is very good for this sort of stuff. Alarms don't go unnoticed and there's a whatsapp group with most neighbours in it so people can react.

As recently as 3 weeks ago, an alarm, coupled with a text to the group chat stopped a burglary in progress.

The_Valeyard

Pedro K wrote: »

My road is very good for this sort of stuff. Alarms don't go unnoticed and there's a whatsapp group with most neighbours in it so people can react.

As recently as 3 weeks ago, an alarm, coupled with a text to the group chat stopped a burglary in progress.

That's pretty cool.


Alarms connected to IP Cameras can be useful.

kneemos

CIP4 wrote: »

I can't remember the exact system we have but it's a HKC system wired which is one of the better manufacturers of alarms. Now I'm no expert on them but you have two options either landline or SIM card. For SIM card which we have you need a GSM module which slots into the alarm system and is about 150-200 euro extra from that you code in the numbers and it will text them in event of it going off or power cuts etc. You then just top up the SIM card every so often. Our one was installed by a registered electrical contractor so they did everything. But ultimately if you want a SIM card you need this GSM module added. I think kellehers electrical stock HKC alarms and they have branches throughout Ireland. I personally would go for a decent brand like HKC that will last. Sure if there is any other questions you have you can pm me if you want.

http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/product/sw-10120-wired/control-panels/#.VrDk70W6CnM

What's the advantage in getting a text?
What do you do when you get it.

murpho999

Why do people have them all the time though if they are constantly going off?

We seem obsessed with them in this country but go to Europe and you'll hardly see them.

They are a nuisance that achieve nothing and insurance companies hold people to ransom about them.

Have one in my apartment but never switch it on and amazingly never been burgled.

mynameis905

salamanca22 wrote: »

Alarms can only operate externally for 15 minutes maximum. You can contact the EPA if it exceeds that.

Where is this utopia you speak of and how can I live there?

CIP4

kneemos wrote: »

What's the advantage in getting a text?
What do you do when you get it.

Look on the security cameras to see if there is someone in the house if there is Dont turn it off call the gardai. Cameras are wireless so I can look at live footage on my phone/ computer. Camera would also notify me if they have been tampered with. It's effectively means I can self monitor the house from anywhere in the world. So basically just cutting out the middle man in terms of monitoring subscription. The alarm can be turned off and reset if it was a false alarm although there never has been one. At the end of day if someone wants to rob the house bad enough they will but this just acts as a deterent and makes it a bit more difficult.

Hitchens

I've disconnected my home alarm system and resigned from the Neighborhood Watch.


I've got the black flag of ISIS on display in two of the front windows.


The local cops and the ERU are all watching the house 24/7. I've never felt safer and I am saving €49.95 a month.

timthumbni

Don't currently have an alarm system and have no intention of getting one. Lived in a few houses with them and each time they were a right pain in the arse.

After a few weeks we stopped setting them and even then every so often the thing would start going off randomly and then sometimes would not stop.

I can see the sense in them if they detect an intrusion whilst you are sleeping though. Personally I just set up various diy, home alone style traps for any unsuspecting burglars.

timthumbni

Don't currently have an alarm system and have no intention of getting one. Lived in a few houses with them and each time they were a right pain in the arse.

After a few weeks we stopped setting them and even then every so often the thing would start going off randomly and then sometimes would not stop.

I can see the sense in them if they detect an intrusion whilst you are sleeping though. Personally I just set up various diy, home alone style traps for any unsuspecting burglars.

andekwarhola

To be fair, I do go out and check if a neighbour's alarm goes off.

Plus even if a lot if neighbours ignore it, you cant really picture burglars leisurely ransacking a gaff while ignoring the alarm if it was going off.

timthumbni

Hitchens wrote: »

I've disconnected my home alarm system and resigned from the Neighborhood Watch.


I've got the black flag of ISIS on display in two of the front windows.


The local cops and the ERU are all watching the house 24/7. I've never felt safer and I am saving €49.95 a month.

That sounds like one of the tips of the week from the old viz magazines. One of its best ever headlines in viz which I still remember 20 years later was:-

EATING BLUE SMARTIES MADE ME GROW WOMANS' TITS

:-)

jimbis

Dubwat wrote: »

Maybe alarms could be fitted with some sort of recording device. So if neighbours complained, the EPA/Gardai etc could look at the record and see definitive proof that the alarm did indeed go off 25 times during the month. And then fine the feckers, lol.

All alarm systems have an operations log so you can check back when it was armed,unarmed, activated etc. Problem is getting the permission to view this log.

Internal and external sirens are now by law limited to 15 min, still annoying as hell though.
Alarms aren't pointless though, if installed properly you could go ten years without an issue. I got my alarm from a house that was being renovated 9 years ago so god knows how long it was in there beforehand. I've never had one problem with it and only changed the battery once. Because I installed it properly. Then we have wireless alarms which I feel haven't quite peaked yet, maybe the likes of HKC but I don't have much experience with them.

The problem with a lot of installers is the job is always time criticle and your always in a rush to get to the next job, or finish the one your on so you don't have to come back and waste 2 hours in the morning. This is when corners are cut and proper tests etc aren't done

Degag

Mena wrote: »

Back home, we had armed response tied into the alarm. Many a time I almost got shot dead forgetting the code after a night on the piss.

Without that though, pointless.

Where are you from? South Africa?

The_Valeyard

Degag wrote: »

Where are you from? South Africa?

No, people get shot there taking a piss.

gutenberg

Degag wrote: »

Where are you from? South Africa?

I remember seeing the 'armed response' signs stuck in every garden in Pasadena, California when I lived there for a time. Scary stuff, although I never actually heard an alarm or saw the armed responders. It's a low-crime area though - maybe a drop in crime occurred after all the alarms/signs appeared! :eek:

chelbi

CIP4 wrote: »

I can't remember the exact system we have but it's a HKC system wired which is one of the better manufacturers of alarms. Now I'm no expert on them but you have two options either landline or SIM card. For SIM card which we have you need a GSM module which slots into the alarm system and is about 150-200 euro extra from that you code in the numbers and it will text them in event of it going off or power cuts etc. You then just top up the SIM card every so often. Our one was installed by a registered electrical contractor so they did everything. But ultimately if you want a SIM card you need this GSM module added. I think kellehers electrical stock HKC alarms and they have branches throughout Ireland. I personally would go for a decent brand like HKC that will last. Sure if there is any other questions you have you can pm me if you want.

[URL="http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/product/sw-10120-wired/control-
panels/#.VrDk70W6CnM"]http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/product/sw-10120-wired/control-panels/#.VrDk70W6CnM[/URL]

Thanks a million for your helpful reply CIP4, your a gem ☺

DexysGrl

I have one of the old annoying alarms. I'd love to update it to one of the less annoying alarms but I'm not really in a position to do that at the moment. We have a lot of break-ins in my area and as a result people DO actually take notice if someone's alarm is going off. Someone on the road set up a facebook group so we could let each other know if the alarms were going off if someone wasn't home.