Father's rights

YellowOctober

Does the father of a child have any rights if he's name is not put on the child's birth certificate ?

ElleEm

YellowOctober wrote: »

Does the father of a child have any rights if he's name is not put on the child's birth certificate ?

An unmarried father has no automatic rights to his child, regardless of being named on the birth cert or not. The father would have to get rights (gaurdianship, custody or access) through the courts or from the mother of the child.

Edited to add- there was a change in legislation recently to say that an unmarried father is an automatic gaurdian if he has lived with the mother for 12 months consecutively, including three months before the baby is born.

Diamond Doll

ElleEm wrote: »

Edited to add- there was a change in legislation recently to say that an unmarried father is an automatic gaurdian if he has lived with the mother for 12 months consecutively, including three months before the baby is born.

I hadn't actually heard of this so I looked it up ... according to the Treoir website, this legislation hasn't yet come into effect, and won't be applicable retrospectively.

YellowOctober

ElleEm wrote: »

An unmarried father has no automatic rights to his child, regardless of being named on the birth cert or not. The father would have to get rights (gaurdianship, custody or access) through the courts or from the mother of the child.

Edited to add- there was a change in legislation recently to say that an unmarried father is an automatic gaurdian if he has lived with the mother for 12 months consecutively, including three months before the baby is born.

I don't need to worry about that...haven't lived with him at all...and in fairness he hasn't supported me during my pregnancy, what so ever . Any appointment in the hospital I had he couldn't get out of bed for it , or went pub instead. I don't know if what I'm doing is wrong , but I don't want to put his name down on the birth cert. The past 8 months he's been going out drinking , he has no money for the baby as he failed college and needs to repeat first year...which will cost him 2,500 €. He lashed out on me for saying that I will not be giving the baby his second name and I quote ,he said :" How can you take this away from me " .

eviltwin

YellowOctober wrote: »

I don't need to worry about that...haven't lived with him at all...and in fairness he hasn't supported me during my pregnancy, what so ever . Any appointment in the hospital I had he couldn't get out of bed for it , or went pub instead. I don't know if what I'm doing is wrong , but I don't want to put his name down on the birth cert. The past 8 months he's been going out drinking , he has no money for the baby as he failed college and needs to repeat first year...which will cost him 2,500 €. He lashed out on me for saying that I will not be giving the baby his second name and I quote ,he said :" How can you take this away from me " .

You should still put his name down for your child's sake.

January

eviltwin wrote: »

You should still put his name down for your child's sake.

Definitely. This has nothing to do with you. He is the child's father and the child deserves to have its mother and its fathers name on the birth cert.

teggers5

I think for the child's sake put his name on the birth certificate.
By doing that you won't be automatically giving him any rights. You don't have to give your child his surname.
It'll be up to him to apply for joint guardianship and custody. In the meantime speak to a solicitor that deals in family law for advice.
Good luck. I hope it works out for you and your baby x

YellowOctober

January wrote: »

Definitely. This has nothing to do with you. He is the child's father and the child deserves to have its mother and its fathers name on the birth cert.

If he's the child's father , where has he been. Its easy to get someone pregnant ,anyone can do that.

Moonbeam

Having his name on the birth cert gives him no rights but it is the right of the child to have both parents named on his birth cert.

teggers5

YellowOctober wrote: »

If he's the child's father , where has he been. Its easy to get someone pregnant ,anyone can do that.

As the saying goes "any fool can be a father but it takes a real man to be a dad"

January

YellowOctober wrote: »

If he's the child's father , where has he been. Its easy to get someone pregnant ,anyone can do that.

Yes but biologically he is the child's father and the child has every right to have his father named on the birth cert. To be fair the child is not even born yet, you don't know what sort of father he will be.

zeffabelli

My child has no name on his birth certificate. Fathers choice, but has rights.

Birth certificate name has nothing to do with rights in Ireland.

It is my opinion the birth very is the start. It's like putting your name on a project or book you've written. You'll care more and feel more responsible if your name is on it, anonominity makes people feel less accountable. Fatherhood no different.

pwurple

The relationship sounds like it is breaking down, and you are using this to punish him.

Noting the name on the birth cert is for historical purposes, not for giving them guardianship.



If you know the father's name, the right thing to do for your child is to put it on the birth cert.

eviltwin

YellowOctober wrote: »

If he's the child's father , where has he been. Its easy to get someone pregnant ,anyone can do that.

If he's a bad father you're going to have a lifetime of issues. It's vital for you and your child's sake that you are able to rise above them. If he wants to play games let him, you don't have to join them. I get that you're angry at his behaviour and you have every right to feel that way but love your child more than you hate his father and put the name down. Your child deserves that.

zeffabelli

eviltwin wrote: »

If he's a bad father you're going to have a lifetime of issues. It's vital for you and your child's sake that you are able to rise above them. If he wants to play games let him, you don't have to join them. I get that you're angry at his behaviour and you have every right to feel that way but love your child more than you hate his father and put the name down. Your child deserves that.

This is fine in principal but if he turns out yo be a fathead a name on the birth certificate could be a pain. They are changing a lot of legislation, so make sure you cross your Ts.

There is one family court in Dublin and people from all over the country have to travel to get passport firms signed.

YellowOctober

zeffabelli wrote: »

This is fine in principal but if he turns out yo be a fathead a name on the birth certificate could be a pain. They are changing a lot of legislation, so make sure you cross your Ts.

There is one family court in Dublin and people from all over the country have to travel to get passport firms signed.

That's what I was also wondering about ...If I put his name down as the child's father ,but don't give the child his second name ,does this mean I will need his permission if I want to travel somewhere with the baby ? I know that as by the law he has no legal rights...but I'm not sure about this one .

zeffabelli

YellowOctober wrote: »

That's what I was also wondering about ...If I put his name down as the child's father ,but don't give the child his second name ,does this mean I will need his permission if I want to travel somewhere with the baby ? I know that as by the law he has no legal rights...but I'm not sure about this one .

You need to check the legislation, I know a lot of it is in the midst of change.

YellowOctober

teggers5 wrote: »

I think for the child's sake put his name on the birth certificate.
By doing that you won't be automatically giving him any rights. You don't have to give your child his surname.
It'll be up to him to apply for joint guardianship and custody. In the meantime speak to a solicitor that deals in family law for advice.
Good luck. I hope it works out for you and your baby x

Thanks ! I will defiantly speak to a solicitor, cause I really don't ant any more drama from him .

January

zeffabelli wrote: »

This is fine in principal but if he turns out yo be a fathead a name on the birth certificate could be a pain. They are changing a lot of legislation, so make sure you cross your Ts.

There is one family court in Dublin and people from all over the country have to travel to get passport firms signed.

Well that's not true, if a father is named on a birth certificate but has not got guardianship all the person needs to do is go to a solicitor and get a signed affadavit swearing that the person is the sole guardian of said child and they can get the passport that way. There is absolutely no need to go to court for passport forms if the father has not got guardianship. If he does you can apply to the court, but there are family courts outside of Dublin too, so there's no need to travel to Dublin for it if you are outside of Dublin.

YellowOctober

January wrote: »

Yes but biologically he is the child's father and the child has every right to have his father named on the birth cert. To be fair the child is not even born yet, you don't know what sort of father he will be.

As I mentioned before , he hasn't exactly been there for me ( and the baby .....even though its not born yet ) during this pregnancy. I've been working 30/35 hours a week which is really exhausting, and then there's him not showing up for work, cause he is coming home at ten am drunk...I've been paying rent ..he doesn't give his mother a penny. I've been saving everything I can for the baby. Its embarrassing, but I have only two maternity bras and I don't want to spend money on myself in case I wont have enough for the baby. Bought the buggy ,car seat and the carry cot myself, baby clothes and other necessities... Tomorrow I'm babying a baby changer and a cot. I saved 3 grand since I got pregnant . Anytime I informed him about hospital appointments...It was always me trying to get through to him on the phone...I would be at the bus stop ready to go into town and he's still in bed. One time he even ****ed off to a pub .... A few months ago, when I was 3 months pregnant, instead of studying for his exams, he was drinking in the student bar....I passed all my exams and had to defer college for a year...and there he is after failing 5 out of 6 modules and he has to save 2,5 grand ! No money for the baby what so ever ?! He would rather go pub behind my back with some girl and lie to me about it than help me out with a baby list...What sort of father will he be ? Yeah , he's going around telling people he's excited ect....but he hasn't exactly been responsible or been around..If you asked him , he wouldn't even know how many weeks I am! Anyone could get a girl pregnant ! After all this , he expect me to adjust myself to his schedules ,cause he will be busy repeating college....I seriously dont know

zeffabelli

January wrote: »

Well that's not true, if a father is named on a birth certificate but has not got guardianship all the person needs to do is go to a solicitor and get a signed affadavit swearing that the person is the sole guardian of said child and they can get the passport that way. There is absolutely no need to go to court for passport forms if the father has not got guardianship. If he does you can apply to the court, but there are family courts outside of Dublin too, so there's no need to travel to Dublin for it if you are outside of Dublin.

No they closed the family courts outside of Dublin. Everyone has to go to dolphin house now.

There has been a recent massive amount of legislation changes, by the time baby is born birth certificate status may have changed. It's worth checking out.

teggers5

YellowOctober wrote: »

As I mentioned before , he hasn't exactly been there for me ( and the baby .....even though its not born yet ) during this pregnancy. I've been working 30/35 hours a week which is really exhausting, and then there's him not showing up for work, cause he is coming home at ten am drunk...I've been paying rent ..he doesn't give his mother a penny. I've been saving everything I can for the baby. Its embarrassing, but I have only two maternity bras and I don't want to spend money on myself in case I wont have enough for the baby. Bought the buggy ,car seat and the carry cot myself, baby clothes and other necessities... Tomorrow I'm babying a baby changer and a cot. I saved 3 grand since I got pregnant . Anytime I informed him about hospital appointments...It was always me trying to get through to him on the phone...I would be at the bus stop ready to go into town and he's still in bed. One time he even ****ed off to a pub .... A few months ago, when I was 3 months pregnant, instead of studying for his exams, he was drinking in the student bar....I passed all my exams and had to defer college for a year...and there he is after failing 5 out of 6 modules and he has to save 2,5 grand ! No money for the baby what so ever ?! He would rather go pub behind my back with some girl and lie to me about it than help me out with a baby list...What sort of father will he be ? Yeah , he's going around telling people he's excited ect....but he hasn't exactly been responsible or been around..If you asked him , he wouldn't even know how many weeks I am! Anyone could get a girl pregnant ! After all this , he expect me to adjust myself to his schedules ,cause he will be busy repeating college....I seriously dont know

God YellowOctober he sounds like he's going to be a fantastic help to you when the baby's born!
I think you really need to be ready for whatever he throws at you regarding custody and guardianship once the child is born. Speak to a solicitor like I said and get their advice on what you can do.
He may be the child's father but that most definitely doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to be part of its life!

mcbobbyb

You can put his name on the birthcert and call your baby whatever you like. Dont give him guardianship if you like, that will mean you can get passports etc without his consent. He can go to court if he wants it but by the sounds of it he wont bother.

MistyCheese

People aren't recommending the fathers name be on the birth certificate for the sake of the guy, but for the sake of the child. Your child deserves to not have a big, blank, empty space on their birth certificate.

Putting the name on the cert is just answering a question. It's not suggesting anything about the guy's capabilities.

Children who grow up without a parent often idealise them. The more mystery surrounding the absent parent the more scope for imagination. However unfair that obviously is to the parent who's right there doing the 24/7 job of being a parent. A blank space is a blank canvas for a child to imagine any kind of scenario "my dad could be anyone!". But a name would help to curtail that "my dad is Joe Bloggs, and he's a butcher. Hmm, well where the hell is this Joe Bloggs the butcher then? Why isn't he here? What a ****head."

pwurple

zeffabelli wrote: »

No they closed the family courts outside of Dublin. Everyone has to go to dolphin house now.

Em, When did this happen? I'm sure one of my colleagues was talking about attending the family court in Cork about six months ago. And I'm almost positive I saw an article about the family law court moving to Washington street, to make it easier to access for people. Makes no sense that it would go to the other end of the country instead?

Yes, here it is:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raising-order-from-the-ruins-a-day-in-the-life-of-family-court-272937.html

But either way, there is no family law court required for this person. They are neither married or living together. The Father has zero rights, whether on the birth certificate or not.. If they wanted guardianship to be in place it's a trip to the solicitor to arrange in this set up. Birth certificate is a different thing entirely to guardianship or maintenance. You are confusing the two.

LegacyUser

teggers5 wrote: »

He may be the child's father but that most definitely doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to be part of its life!

actually it does! he is this baby's dad, and the only genetic one this child will ever have, the op needs to give him a chance to be a father and not let her opinion/personal feelings come between this man and his child, at the end of the day how he treats the op has no bearing on how he will be as a father, how many parents say "but the moment they handed me that tiny little baby, i knew my life changed forever"... it happens, and to write this guy off because "he took another girl to the bar" and because he misses the hospital appointments is wrong imo,

a lot of interested partners don't go to the hospital appointments, anytime i'm there its all women, most of them alone.

op, firstly the birth cert should have the fathers name on it, not for you, not for him, but so your child knows who to go looking for (should they choose to, or need to), what if the worst should happen and you child needs a donor, and the dad is a match? what if the childs chidlren are looking at medical history of their family? or grand children are looking into their family history? they have a right to know where they come from and you shouldn't deny them that.


secondly, it sounds from your posts (saying you are in college) that you are both young, if he is telling people then there is a huge chance his parents might want to be involved and willing to fight for his rights, it says on citizens information:

The mother OR father may make a written request (Form CRA 5 and Form CRA 6 respectively) on production of a certified copy of a court order which names the person to be registered as the father. The parent making the request will be required to attend at the office of the Registrar to sign the Register of Births.

so it might be in your own interest to at least look like you want what is best for your child, even if thats not what you want. and like i said above what if he does step up when the baby is here? i'm curious what if he wants a relationship with the child but not you? is that ok with you? at the end of the day he IS the baby's father, nothing will change that now, and what will happen will happen, but you can be a good mother and do whats best for your child.

cbyrd

By not putting his name on the birth certificate you are denying your baby half of his/her family.
How do his parents feel about their impending grandchild? Do you have any support other than him?
Just because your relationship is breaking down doesn't mean that he will be a crap parent.
As was stated in lots of other posts, his name being on the birth certificate doesn't give him any rights.

It sounds like there's deeper issues than naming him, are you still in a relationship with him or is his involvement for clinic appointments just to keep him involved? Was he always a heavy drinker? I'm asking because if he was and you knew before you got pregnant then it's an eyes wide open situation. If it's a new thing, then it could be he's not coping with impending fatherhood or exams and it's sending him into a loop of self destruction.
Before you write him off altogether, remember at some stage your child will come and ask you who his or her daddy is. What will your reply be? That he didn't pay his way so he didn't get the rights?
I do think it's very wrong that, unless for physical and/or mental abuse, a father is not given the right to be a father just because... I've seen so many men hurt and fight for the right to see their kids. From friends, my exes brother, my own brother and my partner.
You've said he's excited about being a dad, even if he fcuked off the day after conception your child still has the right to know who s/he is.
Be careful, punishing him for his bad behaviour shouldn't affect your child.

mapaca

Sorry to hear you're going through this, but you sound like you have your head screwed on and are doing your best to prepare for your baby's arrival.
I think you should put the father's name on the birth cert, everyone deserves to know who their parents are. You can give the baby whatever surname you prefer.
It would be a good idea to speak to a solicitor and find out exactly where you stand.
Have you a good relationship with his parents at all? I'm sure they will want to be part of their grandchild's life, they might be a good support to you.
In the meantime, take care of yourself for the rest of the pregnancy and look forward to holding your little bundle of joy in your arms!

PandaPoo

I was in your situation about 5+ years ago, in the end he started saying he wasn't the father so I didn't have his permission to put his name on the cert.

2 years later he took me to court for guardianship and visitation, showed up to visitation for about 2 weeks and now I haven't seen him in 3 years. I'd say just put his name on it, for your child's sake, and he'll dig his own grave by the sounds of it. IME they want to cause us more hassle than they actually want to see their child.

I've taken my son away on holidays loads of times, had to get a signed affidavit to say I was the sole guardian. Easy peasy, think it cost me €15 for the solicitors signature

irish gent

My Sons ex girlfriend is due her baby next week and her Mother is already threatening a solicitor after him? My Son wants to be a great dad but its looks like the road ahead is very bleak..It all started when he was asked to move in to there home in said yes to it at first ,but changed his mind.The Mother went mad on him because he changed is mind. There relationship went down hill after that .The ex girlfriend Mother is a control freak..My son is sick of her interfering in there relationship. My son has no legal rights whats so ever.I was on to someone in the Government about the new law that's coming in and its a joke. All it is in the new law that the father will automatically get is name on the birth cert that's it.. My son has already been buying stuff and putting away maintenance money for her by law he has to do this.I know they will not allow my son to see his new born. I think he should walk way now from this and forget that he has a son,, because all the odds are stacked against him for access and custody. SAD SAD for all the Dads out there that have to go trough this sh""t ..............I know of a lad that killed himself because of this stuff. I'm there for my Son no matter what till the end..

YellowOctober

mapaca wrote: »

Sorry to hear you're going through this, but you sound like you have your head screwed on and are doing your best to prepare for your baby's arrival.
I think you should put the father's name on the birth cert, everyone deserves to know who their parents are. You can give the baby whatever surname you prefer.
It would be a good idea to speak to a solicitor and find out exactly where you stand.
Have you a good relationship with his parents at all? I'm sure they will want to be part of their grandchild's life, they might be a good support to you.
In the meantime, take care of yourself for the rest of the pregnancy and look forward to holding your little bundle of joy in your arms!

Yeah, no I decided to put his name down on the birth cert for the baby's sake. Yes, I spoke to solicitor yesterday after he assaulted me . None of his parents tired to contact me at all or tired to find out how I am. His mother threatened me ,and said that if I will ever bring him to court over anything or stop him from seeing the kid , when the kid turns 18 she will tell her everything , and what I'm like ...So yeah ...

YellowOctober

cbyrd wrote: »

By not putting his name on the birth certificate you are denying your baby half of his/her family.
How do his parents feel about their impending grandchild? Do you have any support other than him?
Just because your relationship is breaking down doesn't mean that he will be a crap parent.
As was stated in lots of other posts, his name being on the birth certificate doesn't give him any rights.

It sounds like there's deeper issues than naming him, are you still in a relationship with him or is his involvement for clinic appointments just to keep him involved? Was he always a heavy drinker? I'm asking because if he was and you knew before you got pregnant then it's an eyes wide open situation. If it's a new thing, then it could be he's not coping with impending fatherhood or exams and it's sending him into a loop of self destruction.
Before you write him off altogether, remember at some stage your child will come and ask you who his or her daddy is. What will your reply be? That he didn't pay his way so he didn't get the rights?
I do think it's very wrong that, unless for physical and/or mental abuse, a father is not given the right to be a father just because... I've seen so many men hurt and fight for the right to see their kids. From friends, my exes brother, my own brother and my partner.
You've said he's excited about being a dad, even if he fcuked off the day after conception your child still has the right to know who s/he is.
Be careful, punishing him for his bad behaviour shouldn't affect your child.

I spoke to a solicitor the other day and I don't have to worry about anything . So I will put his name down on the birth cert for the baby's sake. In fairness I have no idea , they never tried to contact me or ask how I am.Well, my family and a few friends yes.

Doesn't mean he will be a crap parent ? He failed his exams....knowing he had a baby on the way ...he chose to drink in the student bar instead of studying . Is that responsible ? Now he's year behind in college and has no money for the baby ?!! Expects me , to adjust myself to his schedule..since he's gona be in college ?!! Like there's something wrong with that picture...
No , I am not with him , he assaulted me the other day , twisted my hand and punched my arm bruising it. What does that say about him ? I had to go to a gp and then was sent to a hospital straight after. I wanted to keep him involved. He talks/talked about how excited he is ,that he cant wait to kiss her and hold her and tells people that he will have a baby . Actions speak louder than words though , right ? He never drank as much , he couldnt handle his drink and kind of had no limit ,but right..i don't even know...it's scary to drink so much and not remember anything ...He's not coping ? Excuse me ? I had to cope ? I passed my exams ...deferred college , worked 30-35 hours a week, payed rent and saved everything I could to baby everything for the baby ...?!! He's not coping ?

I will never lie to my baby about her dad and she will always have a dad.

bp

You already are being a great mammy.

I hope you file a police report regarding the assault....you need a record of that

zeffabelli

Of course the relationship between the parents matter and yes how they treat each other matters.

It is foolish to state otherwise. Domestic abuse extends to sharing a child, not just a home ....

Op he is having a major freak out. You carry on with your pregnancy and school and take care of yourself.... The freak out he is having is beyond what you can do to help so stand back.

Many many dads up the road years later have huge regrets how they treated the mothers of their children. It is terrible and irresponsible to say that it doesn't matter how he treats you. It does matter he just can't see it now.