Residing at property unlawfully

Bossasaur

Hi all. I'm hoping you can give me a bit of advice with a property issue.

Some back story on this. I have been renting a house in Dublin since December 2010. The house belonged to an elderly family friend who had to be moved into a nursing home some years ago and the house was standing empty for some time. It was suggested that I move in and pay a very reasonable amount of rent to the family of the owner. The owner then passed away last year and since that time there have been arguments within this family regarding the will and the estate. There is an estranged child who appeared out of the blue several years before this person's death and they have been disputing the will and the estate (as far as I am aware anyway. I don't really know much about this).

I have received a letter from this person's solicitors today asking me to vacate the property within the next 14 days or they will take "action by way of Court application or otherwise to enforce your removed from the property in circumstances where you are unlawfully residing in the property."

I spoke to the family member that I have been dealing with since I moved in here and they have told me to ignore it as they are in the process of legal action with this person. He also told me that he spoke to his solicitor and it will take them six months to a year to evict me anyway by which time everything should be sorted.

Should I be worried about this and is there anything that can be done by the solicitors within the next 14 days?

Thanks!

coylemj

Without inheriting the house (which would require that probate be completed), that person has no right to order you out and even less chance of getting a court order to evict you.

The critical issue here is what stage the probate of the estate of the original owner is at - have you discussed this with the member of the family you deal with? If the extended family wanted you out, then the executor of the estate could ask you to vacate and/or seek to have you evicted in order that he/she could sell the house with vacant possession. In the meantime, if you are in good standing with the executor of the estate then you don't have any reason to be worried, at least until probate is complete. When that happens, whoever inherits the house could ask you to vacate or that you pay market rent.

Bossasaur

coylemj wrote: »

Without inheriting the house (which would require that probate be completed), that person has no right to order you out and even less chance of getting a court order to evict you.

The critical issue here is what stage the probate of the estate of the original owner is at - have you discussed this with the member of the family you deal with? If the extended family wanted you out, then the executor of the estate could ask you to vacate and/or seek to have you evicted in order that he/she could sell the house with vacant possession. In the meantime, if you are in good standing with the executor of the estate then you don't have any reason to be worried, at least until probate is complete. When that happens, whoever inherits the house could ask you to vacate or that you pay market rent.

Thanks for the info. The family member I've been dealing with has been telling me that the probate is still on going, but they're in the process of buying this other person out. The letter I received did say that this person is the executor, though.

Uno my Uno.

This is not legal advice but...

The only person who can evict someone from a home is a person who has a better claim to that home. Eg the lawful owner who is entitled to possession at the time.

Evicting people from properties is exceptionally difficult even in cases where people are there without permission or in arrears of rent etc. Getting all the necessary court orders and enforcement orders needed to evict someone is notoriously difficult and time consuming.

Peregrinus

Bossasaur wrote: »

Thanks for the info. The family member I've been dealing with has been telling me that the probate is still on going, but they're in the process of buying this other person out. The letter I received did say that this person is the executor, though.

If that person is the executor then, yes, they can ask you to leave (or to pay your rent to them, and not to whoever you have been paying it to up to now).

If they ask you to leave and you don't, it will take them a lot longer than 14 days to have you evicted through the courts. Still, rather than go through the stress and expense of fighting to prolong your stay in the house, if they are the executor and they definitely want you out, it may be time to start looking around for alternative accommodation.

I'd reply to the letter asking them to furnish a copy of the grant of probate naming their client as executor.

Bossasaur

Bossasaur wrote: »

The owner then passed away last year and since that time there have been arguments within this family regarding the will and the estate. There is an estranged child who appeared out of the blue several years before this person's death and they have been disputing the will and the estate

Bossasaur wrote: »

The letter I received did say that this person is the executor, though.

Wait. If the estranged child is the executor, then they are not likely to be challenging the will. Its more likely that the people you are renting from are the ones challenging.
I don't suggest you move out immediately but it would be worthwhile to open a channel of communication with the executors solicitor. It does seem that your time in the house is limited but the executor might be happy to allow you to stay as caretaker until everything is resolved.

Carawaystick

Is the OP not a renter, and so should have part4 rights and the solicitor would have to go through the prtb before the court?

Uno my Uno.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is the OP not a renter, and so should have part4 rights and the solicitor would have to go through the prtb before the court?

Indeed The OP would do well to consult the PRTB and the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

there are no circumstances that I am aware of (other than an emergency) that allow someone to be evicted on 14 days notice.

coylemj

Peregrinus wrote: »

....Still, rather than go through the stress and expense of fighting to prolong your stay in the house, if they are the executor and they definitely want you out, it may be time to start looking around for alternative accommodation.

+1 OP, it appears you have been caught in the middle of a family dispute here, do you have a particular reason why you want to stay - perhaps the rent is very 'reasonable', you like the area and current rents are much higher?

If the family members you are on friendly terms with get the house, will they leave you there or will they want to sell up to split the proceeds? Is it really worth sitting there getting solicitor's letters if you'll have to move out eventually anyway?

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'd reply to the letter asking them to furnish a copy of the grant of probate naming their client as executor.

Does an executor need to wait for the grant of probate to be able to get a court order for vacant possession?

Uno my Uno.

coylemj wrote: »

+1 OP, it appears you have been caught in the middle of a family dispute here, do you have a particular reason why you want to stay - perhaps the rent is very 'reasonable', you like the area and current rents are much higher?

If the family members you are on friendly terms with get the house, will they leave you there or will they want to sell up to split the proceeds? Is it really worth sitting there getting solicitor's letters if you'll have to move out eventually anyway?

The property is the OPs home, he shouldn't have to leave it unless lawfully required to do so. Simply liking the house is reason enough for him to want to stay as long as he legally may do so, Just because someone asks doesn't mean he should leave and undergo the expense and difficulty of finding new accommodation.

coylemj wrote: »

Does an executor need to wait for the grant of probate to be able to get a court order for vacant possession?

Yes, an executor cannot take action until they have the grant of probate.

P. Breathnach

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

...
Yes, an executor cannot take action until they have the grant of probate.

There is potential difficulty, however, in the matter of the rent. It should go to the executor with effect from the date of death.

Bossasaur

Hi all. Thanks for the responses.

The rent is very reasonable for it's location in Dublin and far below the average for anything nearby. The family members that I am on good terms wit have told me that they have no intention of selling the house for a few years at least and they are happy for me to stay. They've told me not to do anything in relation to this and that they will deal with it, but I think I should ask the solicitor for the grant of probate as Peregrinus suggested above, but at the same time I don't want to be drawn any deeper into this if the family will deal with it themselves. That being said, I would be willing to contest this thing if it is at all possible.

Uno my Uno.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There is potential difficulty, however, in the matter of the rent. It should go to the executor with effect from the date of death.

The "executor" isn't actually the executor until the Grant of Probate issues, I would not be giving any rent to them until I had a certified copy of the Grant.

Peregrinus

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

The "executor" isn't actually the executor until the Grant of Probate issues, I would not be giving any rent to them until I had a certified copy of the Grant.

Yes, he is, if he's the executor named in the Will. He can lawfully and validly deal with the deceased's affairs even before he gets a grant. What he can't do is compel anybody to deal with him on behalf of the estate, which in practice means he won't get very far with administering the estate until he obtains a grant of probate. Banks and so forth will be happy to deal with him over small amounts, but they'll want to see a grant before they, e.g. release large sums to him, or hand him the deeds to the deceased's house.

OP, if this guy is named as executor in the Will but hasn't yet got a grant, you're in a slightly awkward position. He's in pole position to get a grant of probate naming him to administer the estate. But he won't inevitably get it, if other family members are challenging that, and quite a while could pass before this gets resolved one way or the other.

On the one hand, you can stay in the house, since until this is resolved nobody is in a position to evict you. And he can't, without a grant, require you to pay the rent to him. On the other hand, if he does end up getting a grant, he will come to you looking for rent for all the period that you were in the house (or, at any rate, for the period from the death of the owner). The fact that you have paid some other family member is not going to impress him; what right did that other family member have to collect rent for a house which they did not own? And why did you pay it to someone else when you knew he was the executor named in the Will?

Family rows are nasty, this could turn into a complete shltstrom, and you do not want to be caught out in the rain when that happens. If I were you, I'd think seriously about looking for other accommodation sooner rather than later. I'd also think about, in the meantime, paying the agreed rent into a bank account that you control, and indicating that you'll pay the accumulated rent, plus accrued interest, to whoever gets a grant, when they get a grant. Or, that you'll pay rent to any family member, if the warring family members agree who that should be.

You've had a sweet deal up until now, maybe, but all good things come to an end. Sometimes it's best to quit while you're up!