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The urban rural divide

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  • 01-09-2015 9:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭


    That show last week (fight for rural Ireland) seemed to strike a decent balance on the pros and cons of centralisation of jobs to big cities with of course the knock on death knell for small towns.

    It's all a bit of a mess really now. On the one hand, some great well paid jobs, big names etc are arriving and staying on our island. But you can't afford to live anywhere near them. More so if we get an interest or commodity rate hike. Even commuting is difficult. Most need to drive for sanity sake and many hit the wall at Naast en route in and out.

    Then the rural side is almost non existant. The sad thing is that their defenders (I'll give the example of fitzmaurice in roscommon south leitrim) suggest dopey things like giving post offices there the manual jobs that have been automated eons ago. Not a bit of forward thinking or even admitting that the same changes happened in Dublin and then goes on about conspiracies by the evil Dublin media etc. You lose hope... Makes me think: the west would be fecked without the Shannon.

    Anyway, what say you good reader. What could be done with the west and it's few that are left there. And what will become of dublin as the prices continue to skyrocket


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Where's blaaland fit into this :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    There are actually a good few companies now hiring outside of Dublin. Last year when I was looking for tech jobs it was worse, almost nothing bar the very odd one in Cork and Galway. Suppose it doesn't make much sense for all these companies to be congregating in Dublin where the rent is sky high when all they need is an office with an internet connection


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,432 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    A mobile ice cream van earns more than those chain gang tech jobs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    kneemos wrote: »
    A mobile ice cream van earns more than those chain gang tech jobs.

    Can I forward you my CV? :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,432 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Can I forward you my CV? :o

    Seriously,he's deluded if he thinks tech is the holy grail.
    Have a drive around the west and count the mansions.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Being a rural person myself, I'd say there are more poor in urban areas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Boring username


    I'm surprised the government doesn't do more to encourage larger corporations to move to a smaller, but well connected city or town that has a decent infrastructure. Even if it means lowering the corporation tax for a year or two, or providing a rebate for companies that are willing to relocate outside the big cities.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy to swap ludicrous rent rates and gridlock traffic for a more relaxed environment. It would also be the obvious thing to do to alleviate the housing problem in Dublin and Cork etc....

    But then again, looking at the big picture isn't really the way of Irish politics..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    I'm surprised the government doesn't do more to encourage larger corporations to move to a smaller, but well connected city or town that has a decent infrastructure. Even if it means lowering the corporation tax for a year or two, or providing a rebate for companies that are willing to relocate outside the big cities.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy to swap ludicrous rent rates and gridlock traffic for a more relaxed environment. It would also be the obvious thing to do to alleviate the housing problem in Dublin and Cork etc....

    But then again, looking at the big picture isn't really the way of Irish politics..

    I heard this discussed several times on the radio recently. An agent in Dublin described how he would have to meet someone at the airport from a large company looking to set up in Ireland. They would be on a tight enough schedule, so the agent would bring them down the M50 to a nearby vacant premises, show them around, get lunch then drop them back to the airport in time to get the next flight that evening... and it would be as simple as that.

    The company rep would be happier to do that than to have to drive 2 or 3 hours up the country to look at a premises.

    I have also heard the bullsh1t arguments from people suggesting that large industry would be more suitable to Dublin and Cork because of access to high end restaurants and theatres etc.

    The largest employer in Donegal is Prumerica, employing over 1,100 with plans to take on another 400.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    A joke of a country with a motorway network that ends before Mullingar. All the money píssed away during the Tiger years and we don't have a motorway system that could take us to Sligo, Letterkenny or Derry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Businesses set up in areas that suit them.
    Businesses don't set up in an area because the area needs jobs.

    I cringe every time a politician says "job creation". They are just touting for votes. They never say "business creation".
    Improve infrastructure, improve education and training (real training).

    Bakeries locate near big populations. (freshness and minimal transport cost).
    Heavy machinery manufacturers locate near ports. (they won't be airfreighting stuff out).
    Tech companies locate near universities and skilled staff.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    I'm surprised the government doesn't do more to encourage larger corporations to move to a smaller, but well connected city or town that has a decent infrastructure. Even if it means lowering the corporation tax for a year or two, or providing a rebate for companies that are willing to relocate outside the big cities.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy to swap ludicrous rent rates and gridlock traffic for a more relaxed environment. It would also be the obvious thing to do to alleviate the housing problem in Dublin and Cork etc....

    But then again, looking at the big picture isn't really the way of Irish politics..

    I am pretty sure that back in the 90s and up about 2005 the IDA grants that were available were higher if the company set up in a non-dublin location. And those grants were a significant incentive to set up in ireland at the time. I am going off memory here, not sources!


  • Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭via4


    I feel in Ireland there is a lack of jobs and also a lack of fun things to do. So maybe a theme park similar to Alton towers being set up here killing two birds with one stone something to do plus giving people jobs. If it was in the west people would drive over to spend a day or two in a park like that it would be worth the trip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    A bit of initiative and drive is required. No reason for rural Ireland not to follow a Mittelstand model. Do one thing and do it well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭guylikeme


    via4 wrote: »
    I feel in Ireland there is a lack of jobs and also a lack of fun things to do. So maybe a theme park similar to Alton towers being set up here killing two birds with one stone something to do plus giving people jobs. If it was in the west people would drive over to spend a day or two in a park like that it would be worth the trip.

    Centerparks going to Ballymahon. Doesnt get much more rural than that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    via4 wrote: »
    I feel in Ireland there is a lack of jobs and also a lack of fun things to do. So maybe a theme park similar to Alton towers being set up here killing two birds with one stone something to do plus giving people jobs. If it was in the west people would drive over to spend a day or two in a park like that it would be worth the trip.


    The big problem with creating theme parks in Ireland is the public liability insurance. So many people looking for easy money, trying to claim for little scratches they got on a roller coaster or blaming all sorts of unrelated ailments on it. Then you have the government insisting they be covered up to the billions or some completely ridiculous amount and the insurance companies of which there are very few and no competition milking it for all it's worth


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy to swap ludicrous rent rates and gridlock traffic for a more relaxed environment.

    You would think that but people have existing commitments (family, schools for the kids, mortgages etc.) which actually does make it harder to pull experienced people from the capital. So the jobs stay in Dublin because the talent pool is in Dublin. Nasty circle I know, I'm not sure how to end it. We ran into this problem so many times in my previous job (in Galway) when attempting to recruit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Its a world wide phenomena basically the world is becoming more urban and less rural and its to do with a host of issues.

    My suggestion is built trains and or more comfortable efficient non car commuting options.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    guylikeme wrote: »
    That show last week (fight for rural Ireland) seemed to strike a decent balance on the pros and cons of centralisation of jobs to big cities with of course the knock on death knell for small towns.

    It's all a bit of a mess really now. On the one hand, some great well paid jobs, big names etc are arriving and staying on our island. But you can't afford to live anywhere near them. More so if we get an interest or commodity rate hike. Even commuting is difficult. Most need to drive for sanity sake and many hit the wall at Naast en route in and out.

    Then the rural side is almost non existant. The sad thing is that their defenders (I'll give the example of fitzmaurice in roscommon south leitrim) suggest dopey things like giving post offices there the manual jobs that have been automated eons ago. Not a bit of forward thinking or even admitting that the same changes happened in Dublin and then goes on about conspiracies by the evil Dublin media etc. You lose hope... Makes me think: the west would be fecked without the Shannon.

    Anyway, what say you good reader. What could be done with the west and it's few that are left there. And what will become of dublin as the prices continue to skyrocket

    That post makes no sense at all.

    "The rural side is amost non existant". What does that mean? I exist. My neighbours and friends all exist. We are not ghosts. What's this about "our defenders"? Who are they are what are they defending?

    I work. I could make twice as much doing the same job in Dublin. I'd rather live in a box in South Kerry than live in Dublin.

    You could not possibly measure how little I care about property prices in Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭guylikeme


    That post makes no sense at all.
    The other posters seemed to understand it but i will elaborate.

    "The rural side is amost non existant". What does that mean? I exist. My neighbours and friends all exist. We are not ghosts. What's this about "our defenders"? Who are they are what are they defending?
    What i'm saying is that in many cases, one is forced eastward for employment. Exceptions exist obviously. However the trend remains the same. Hence my phrase "almost non existant" and hence why the issue is highlighted by affore-mentioned politicians and media reports
    I work. I could make twice as much doing the same job in Dublin. I'd rather live in a box in South Kerry than live in Dublin.

    You could not possibly measure how little I care about property prices in Dublin.
    When i care very little about something, i ignore it to the point of not even pointing out how little i care.


  • Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭via4


    That is true now that I think of it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,290 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    A joke of a country with a motorway network that ends before Mullingar. All the money píssed away during the Tiger years and we don't have a motorway system that could take us to Sligo, Letterkenny or Derry.
    Ireland isn't big and is fairly sparsely populated outside Dublin. Dublin is linked to all other cities with a motorway, and Belfast is almost as good as a motorway. I'd be well píssed off if the government decided to spend billions away on building a motorway to fecken Letterkenny. Not every regional town needs one, we just don't have the population to justify them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,622 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Ireland isn't big and is fairly sparsely populated outside Dublin. Dublin is linked to all other cities with a motorway, and Belfast is almost as good as a motorway. I'd be well píssed off if the government decided to spend billions away on building a motorway to fecken Letterkenny. Not every regional town needs one, we just don't have the population to justify them.

    I agree to some extent, but the road network is really dire beyond the regional towns.

    Take the main Cork-Limerick road, and you slow to a crawl to go through towns and villages, there are signs for cows crossing the road, and the road surface is terrible in places.

    That's the main road between Ireland's 2nd and 3rd biggest cities. It's busy with private and commercial travel.

    (There are patches where it has been developed into something approaching motorway standard, but after a kilometre of two of that, it suddenly narrows back to something closer to a country lane)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    guylikeme wrote: »
    The other posters seemed to understand it but i will elaborate.

    What i'm saying is that in many cases, one is forced eastward for employment.

    Ah, so some place is validated by rates of employment.

    It...in your words..."exists".

    I would have thought parts of Dublin would know very high rates of unemployment. And low property prices. Do they exist a little less than Foxrock?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    osarusan wrote: »
    I agree to some extent, but the road network is really dire beyond the regional towns.

    Take the main Cork-Limerick road, and you slow to a crawl to go through towns and villages, there are signs for cows crossing the road, and the road surface is terrible in places.

    That's the main road between Ireland's 2nd and 3rd biggest cities. It's busy with private and commercial travel.

    (There are patches where it has been developed into something approaching motorway standard, but after a kilometre of two of that, it suddenly narrows back to something closer to a country lane)

    I don't agree with that this morning I drove all of the M50 and then The MI almost to the borer the road is excellent every bit of the way, and there are other new motorway's as well, compare driving Dublin to Galway/Limerick today verses 20 years ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭guylikeme


    Ah, so some place is validated by rates of employment.

    It...in your words..."exists".

    I would have thought parts of Dublin would know very high rates of unemployment. And low property prices. Do they exist a little less than Foxrock?

    I'm sorry that you didn't read my first 2 paragraphs where i mentioned jobs specifically and put 2 and 2 together. Employment-wise western towns barely exist. That's why people are leaving them in droves


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    Most young people only want to live in Cities. You find it very hard as multinational, to convince an Italian living in Milan or a German in Munich, that Ennis is a great place to live. They will want good nightlife, shopping, other young people. A higher wage will only get people so far

    I dont get the obsession to keep "rural Ireland alive". In most places like Germany, they have centralised growth to the Ruhr Region or Bavaria. Industry has choose to locate in areas with resources, the market for it goods and the workers close to the factory. You dont see the German Government telling Bayer to open a factory in the middle of no where. VW tried to open a factory in East Germany and they had to close it. Even with excellent wages people didnt want to move to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    50 years time it will all be holiday homes for urban workers


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,622 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I don't agree with that this morning I drove all of the M50 and then The MI almost to the borer the road is excellent every bit of the way, and there are other new motorway's as well, compare driving Dublin to Galway/Limerick today verses 20 years ago.

    What does that have to do with the Limerick to Cork road?

    Yes, the roads from Dublin to other cities are good, and that's great - it should be the first priority - but beyond that, the road network is of poor quality, and that poor quality isn't limited to regional towns either.

    Commenting on driving the M1 and M50 hasn't anything to do with my point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    osarusan wrote: »
    What does that have to do with the Limerick to Cork road?

    Yes, the roads from Dublin to other cities are good, and that's great - it should be the first priority - but beyond that, the road network is of poor quality, and that poor quality isn't limited to regional towns either.

    Commenting on driving the M1 and M50 hasn't anything to do with my point.

    Well Rome wasn't built in a day, it is getting better infrastructure is an on going project.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Aren't they investing major amounts of money into fibre-optic broadband for rural areas? We boggers will have faster speeds than the townies:P

    The factors that keep drive people to urban areas (nightlife, 'big' city vibe...etc..) are less and less an issue by the time people are settled down with kids. Many want their kids to have the childhood they had. We do need better infrastructure to rural towns. Driving an hour to work from the country to a town is less stressful than sitting for an hour in traffic 'driving' to work in a city.

    The Irish cities should look to Rotterdam on how to develop ports and high-rise buildings in an otherwise very low-rise city. Galway's docks are getting a major new development but Limerick needs some attention.

    In some ways, the need for centralisation is ending. Unless your creating a physical product, the internet will connect rural businesses to the outside world. Our mentality favouring cities just hasn't changed. Working at home could become an increasingly viable option. County Galway as population of roughly 250,000 but only 75,000 in the city. While there's a huge potential for urban growth in Galway, it seriously needs to get it's **** together with that bypass or it can't handle any more growth.


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