Reduction in hours in work - me only, is this legal?

Plek Trum

Hello,

I work in a small professional environment. I currently work 34 hours over 5 days, my colleague works 28 hours over 4 days. We share some basic common duties and can cover each other when required. I returned after maternity leave in June of this year, I have been employed here, full time, since 2006. I get paid more than my colleague (post grad, I manage the business for my employer etc)

My employer announced yesterday that he was cutting hours and in the interests of fairness both I and my colleague were going on a 3 day week / 4 day week rotation. In order to accommodate our clients, our employer will work 8 hour day twice a week within these days, rather than the 6 hour day twice a week currently done. In short, my colleague will basically be on the same hours each month, just condensed into a slightly longer days.

To clarify, my colleague is down 2 days a month (but will be working the same amount of working hours as currently) but I will be cut 6 days per month, which equates to nearly 3.5 months salary for me.

I have been working out our new wages and my colleague (With whom I share duties and was told I will have to train in their area to cover their work also) is actually UP 26euro net a month, 171euro a month when you take into account Jobseekers benefit, while I am down over 8k from work alone.

I calmly explained to my employer that I didnt think this was fair , the cuts are not even, but I was told they had taken legal advice and its "last in, first out, you're lucky to have any job". I was also told that I have to train to cover my colleagues area when they are off, essentially doubling my role here at the office.

Is this legal and can this be done? My colleague has never been team player, refused to sign contracts in work when we were requested to and now they effectively have 2k of a payrise with an extra day off each fortnight (!) My cut however is around 26% or a quarter of my annual take home salary.

I have a mortgage, loan, a 9 month old baby and this is a serious knock on effect at home. I will qualify for Jobseekers Benefit from what I have read, but even with that I am still down thousands of euro in the year.

All help, advice and direction would be hugely appreciated, thank you.

(Just to add, I have always been a team player, active contributor to the business, work half hour for free every week to open and set up before clients arrive, never have a problem working late and always willing to do whatever is required at work.)

Stheno

Your employer can propose changes in your terms and conditions yes.

If you don't agree with them, then you need to talk to them. If you are unable to accept the changes, then you need to consider your options.

I think you are in a bit of a difficult situation here, as essentially from what you have written your role is changing significantly so effectively your employer could argue that your current role is redundant.

You qualify for jobseekers on weeks when you work no more than three days a week.

If I were you I'd go home, do the calculations including what you'd get in jobseekers and work it out net of tax.

Focussing on how this affects your colleague is irrelevant to be honest, it's how it affects you that should be most important in your mind.

You could also consult a legal professional to get legal advice from them.

Mrs OBumble

Your numbers don't add up, unless you are also being asked to take a cut to your hourly rate? (Or you are on a daily rate, and get the same amount no matter how long the days are, which would be very strange indeed.)

You currently work 34 hour, and will be going to 28 hours. That'a drop of 6 hours = 18% of hours per week or 26 hours per month (on average). However the way the tax system works, this should amount to a lot less than than an 18% cut in take home pay. (Assuming that since it's a professional environment, at least some of your pay is currently taxed at 20% if not 41%.)

Stheno is right, focus on yourself, drop the comparisons, they won't be helpful.

Plek Trum

Thanks to both of you for your replies - I asked to speak to my employer this evening and we were having a civil and calm chat. I explained that I was the only staff member being cut, it was a very significant drop and just wanted to clarify with them (as I write wage cheques) that were they aware that the other staff member , while having hours rearranged , wasn't being cut at all and there were no savings being made there.

I did this as at the staff meeting we were told the cuts and changes were for everyone, all in the interests of fairness etc with us all there.

I calmly and politely said that I just realised that the only paycut was for me , admitted that what they pay my colleague and how is absolutely none of my concern or business, but did they realise this or know know this already. My employer lost the rag, roared "F%#k you" at me, continued to shout and rant, at which point in disbelief I got my bag, said very calmly "you have crossed a line there" and left the office (our chat was after work hours). They kept shouting to my back and slammed the front door behind me ...

I swear , I'm not in the better of it!

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Your numbers don't add up, unless you are also being asked to take a cut to your hourly rate? (Or you are on a daily rate, and get the same amount no matter how long the days are, which would be very strange indeed.)

You currently work 34 hour, and will be going to 28 hours. That'a drop of 6 hours = 18% of hours per week or 26 hours per month (on average). However the way the tax system works, this should amount to a lot less than than an 18% cut in take home pay. (Assuming that since it's a professional environment, at least some of your pay is currently taxed at 20% if not 41%.)

Stheno is right, focus on yourself, drop the comparisons, they won't be helpful.

Stheno

Plek Trum wrote: »

Thanks to both of you for your replies - I asked to speak to my employer this evening and we were having a civil and calm chat. I explained that I was the only staff member being cut, it was a very significant drop and just wanted to clarify with them (as I write wage cheques) that were they aware that the other staff member , while having hours rearranged , wasn't being cut at all and there were no savings being made there.

I did this as at the staff meeting we were told the cuts and changes were for everyone, all in the interests of fairness etc with us all there.

I calmly and politely said that I just realised that the only paycut was for me , admitted that what they pay my colleague and how is absolutely none of my concern or business, but did they realise this or know know this already. My employer lost the rag, roared "F%#k you" at me, continued to shout and rant, at which point in disbelief I got my bag, said very calmly "you have crossed a line there" and left the office (our chat was after work hours). They kept shouting to my back and slammed the front door behind me ...

I swear , I'm not in the better of it!

That doesn't sound somewhere you'd want to stay tbh

However are bumble said are you sure on the figures? They don't make sense to me either

Plek Trum

Thanks guys - I guess if you search some other posts I've had in here you'll see this isn't the first incident with my employer and really yes, I feel the time to move on may have arrived.

Re drop in wages, I only calculated it very roughly and loosely. Currently work 5 days per week, will now work 3 /4/3/4. This is a drop in 6 days work a month = roughly 5 days wages = 1 week a month down in salary, which is 25%. Extremely rough to get an average I know.

I was also told this evening that my colleague can do my job, I am no longer needed, my job is redundant and that they have kept me on only out of obligation (familial). Also told that they were more than accommodating when I was out on maternity leave - just to clarify I did not recieve any payment from my employer while on maternity leave and actually left home to come into work on 4 seperate occasions to help out with minor issues when my baby was 1 - 5 weeks old!

When I asked my employer very calmly if they had considered redundancy so, I was laughed at sarcastically and accused of having being busy checking my rights. Awful. Unfortunately we live in a rural area and jobs are extremely hard to come by but I deserve better than this.

Surely an employer cannot talk to employee like above and think its acceptable

Stheno

Plek Trum wrote: »

Thanks guys - I guess if you search some other posts I've had in here you'll see this isn't the first incident with my employer and really yes, I feel the time to move on may have arrived.

Re drop in wages, I only calculated it very roughly and loosely. Currently work 5 days per week, will now work 3 /4/3/4. This is a drop in 6 days work a month = roughly 5 days wages = 1 week a month down in salary, which is 25%. Extremely rough to get an average I know.

I was also told this evening that my colleague can do my job, I am no longer needed, my job is redundant and that they have kept me on only out of obligation (familial). Also told that they were more than accommodating when I was out on maternity leave - just to clarify I did not recieve any payment from my employer while on maternity leave and actually left home to come into work on 4 seperate occasions to help out with minor issues when my baby was 1 - 5 weeks old!

When I asked my employer very calmly if they had considered redundancy so, I was laughed at sarcastically and accused of having been checking my rights. Awful. Unfortunately we live in a rural area and jobs are extremely hard to come by but I deserve better than this.

Surely an employer cannot talk to employee like above and think its acceptable

You should be more thorough in calculating the change in earnings tbh. You may find it is significantly less, are you paid hourly or on a salary?

Also do you work for a family member?

Plek Trum

I get paid hourly, will be down 2 days week one, (16 hours) and 1 day week two (8 hours), on repeat cycle. twice in a month (based on 4 weeks = 48 hours per month reduction. This equates 6 days per month.

Outside of the cuts, which I can accept if I have to, simply the repeated treatment and the way I am spoken to whenever I speak up re my position in work (only ever when acceptable and required, I am not a 'difficult' employee by any stretch and have left several things go in the past) really is terrible. Hugely unprofessional and unacceptable. My employer is my partners sibling.

Stheno

Plek Trum wrote: »

I get paid hourly, will be down 2 days week one, (16 hours) and 1 day week two (8 hours), on repeat cycle. twice in a month (based on 4 weeks = 48 hours per month reduction. This equates 6 days per month.

See I think this is where myself and Mrs. O'Bumble are confused.

You currently work 34 hours over five days which is an average of 6.8 hours a day, how many hours will you work on a 3 and a 4 day week?

Outside of the cuts, which I can accept if I have to, simply the repeated treatment and the way I am spoken to whenever I speak up re my position in work (only ever when acceptable and required, I am not a 'difficult' employee by any stretch and have left several things go in the past) really is terrible. Hugely unprofessional and unacceptable. My employer is my partners sibling.

Very little you can do here tbh apart from leave.
Or seek legal advice about constructive dismissal.

The fact there is family involved could be tricky, is your partner on good terms with their sibling?

Plek Trum

Stheno wrote: »

See I think this is where myself and Mrs. O'Bumble are confused.

You currently work 34 hours over five days which is an average of 6.8 hours a day, how many hours will you work on a 3 and a 4 day week?



Very little you can do here tbh apart from leave.
Or seek legal advice about constructive dismissal.

The fact there is family involved could be tricky, is your partner on good terms with their sibling?

Sorry, head a bit fuzzy here with the drama and a teething 9 month old (!)
On the proposed 3 day week it will be 24 hours, on 4 day week it will be 30, possibly 32 depending on demand. Em[loyer wants to work extra hours in the day but less days in work for us. Aha - I see now what you are getting at, the reduction may not be as big as anticipated...

Plek Trum

Partner is on good terms with their sibling yes. Their family is aware of how 'difficult' my employer can be at times,not that this has any bearing on my current work situation i know. Life lesson - do not work for family! Im curious though as to how this could effect things?

Stheno

Plek Trum wrote: »

Sorry, head a bit fuzzy here with the drama and a teething 9 month old (!)
On the proposed 3 day week it will be 24 hours, on 4 day week it will be 30, possibly 32 depending on demand. Aha - I see now what you are getting at, the reduction may not be as big as anticipated...

Exactly, you were thinking in days lost instead of hours lost.

So if we say that under your previous arrangement, on the basis of working 232 days a year (5 day week minus 9 bank holidays and four weeks holidays statutory allowance), then you were working 232*6.8 hours per day = 1577.6 hours.

So on e.g. €20 per hour your total salary would be €31552 gross

Now on the basis that you will be working a total of 55 (splitting the 30/32) hours every two weeks, for approximately 46 weeks of the year, that is 23*55 = 1265 hours which at 20 per hour is 25300, which is a cut of 6252.

However that cut is further reduced by the fact that for 23 of those forty six weeks, you can claim jobseekers as you are working three days a week, which for a single person would be 75.20 per week, so that's clawing back 75.20 * 23 = 1729.60, so you are now losing 5222.40 per year, or 100 per week (still no small amount to be down.) Jobseekers benefit is taxable, so net, you will probably be losing about 80e per week on that wage of 20 euro per hour.

You can apply the same calculations to what you actually earn, I've randomly taken the 20 e per hour as an example for you.

Additionally you mention you have a young child, that affects how much you get in jobseekers, so it may be higher, you can check the rates at

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/jobseekers_benefit_and_work.html

And you could also look into seeing if you are entitled to FIS (Family income supplement)

Hope that helps somewhat.

Were I you I'd use it as an opportunity to see what else may be available to you Can't be good for you working in a toxic environment like that.

Stheno

Plek Trum wrote: »

Partner is on good terms with their sibling yes. Their family is aware of how 'difficult' my employer can be at times,not that this has any bearing on my current work situation i know. Life lesson - do not work for family! Im curious though as to how this could effect things?

Well at the extreme end of things, were you to choose to take such action as constructive dismissal or pursue for redundancy, the effect on family relationships may influence you negatively

Plek Trum

Stheno wrote: »

Exactly, you were thinking in days lost instead of hours lost.

So if we say that under your previous arrangement, on the basis of working 232 days a year (5 day week minus 9 bank holidays and four weeks holidays statutory allowance), then you were working 232*6.8 hours per day = 1577.6 hours.

So on e.g. €20 per hour your total salary would be €31552 gross

Now on the basis that you will be working a total of 55 (splitting the 30/32) hours every two weeks, for approximately 46 weeks of the year, that is 23*55 = 1265 hours which at 20 per hour is 25300, which is a cut of 6252.

However that cut is further reduced by the fact that for 23 of those forty six weeks, you can claim jobseekers as you are working three days a week, which for a single person would be 75.20 per week, so that's clawing back 75.20 * 23 = 1729.60, so you are now losing 5222.40 per year, or 100 per week (still no small amount to be down.) Jobseekers benefit is taxable, so net, you will probably be losing about 80e per week on that wage of 20 euro per hour.

You can apply the same calculations to what you actually earn, I've randomly taken the 20 e per hour as an example for you.

Additionally you mention you have a young child, that affects how much you get in jobseekers, so it may be higher, you can check the rates at

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/jobseekers_benefit_and_work.html

And you could also look into seeing if you are entitled to FIS (Family income supplement)

Hope that helps somewhat.

Were I you I'd use it as an opportunity to see what else may be available to you Can't be good for you working in a toxic environment like that.

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to put all that down in writing (and at this hour too!) hugely appreciate it

Stheno

Plek Trum wrote: »

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to put all that down in writing (and at this hour too!) hugely appreciate it

You're welcome, at least we are all on the same page now