lost distance with new irons

opinionated3

Hi all. I'm hoping someone here might be able to give me some pointers. I play off 13 and up to this year was making reasonable steady progress. In June i decided to upgrade my irons. I bought the new ping g30 in stiff shaft after being fitted. My previous set were callaway razr x in uniflex. I am getting a lot straighter ball flight now but i seem to be hitting the ball very high and have lost roughly 10 yards per club. For example i am now struggling to hit my 5 iron longer than 160 yards. This was always my club for the 160 to 175 range. What could i be doing wrong? ?

ShivasIrons

opinionated3 wrote: »

Hi all. I'm hoping someone here might be able to give me some pointers. I play off 13 and up to this year was making reasonable steady progress. In June i decided to upgrade my irons. I bought the new ping g30 in stiff shaft after being fitted. My previous set were callaway razr x in uniflex. I am getting a lot straighter ball flight now but i seem to be hitting the ball very high and have lost roughly 10 yards per club. For example i am now struggling to hit my 5 iron longer than 160 yards. This was always my club for the 160 to 175 range. What could i be doing wrong? ?

What was the loft on your old 5 iron? And the new 5 iron? Different lofts could mean different distances.

opinionated3

ShivasIrons wrote: »

What was the loft on your old 5 iron? And the new 5 iron? Different lofts could mean different distances.

Loft on razr x 5 iron was 25deg. Ping g30 is 24...

death1234567

Are the new shafts the same length as the old ones? Longer shaft -> longer distance. The stiff shaft might mean less distance unless you have a high swing speed but I assume your fitter checked all that for you.

If you play off 13 you should be able to hit a 5 iron 160 yards handy enough so it's odd that you're that short. Easiest thing to do is to give them to a friend to try and say nothing. Just ask him to hit a few at a driving range and see if he notices a difference.

ShivasIrons

opinionated3 wrote: »

Loft on razr x 5 iron was 25deg. Ping g30 is 24...

What shaft is in the Pings? The weight of the shaft and not just the flex can have a big impact. The uniflex shaft was stiff enough and potentially the Ping shaft could be lighter leading to a higher flight.

FixdePitchmark

opinionated3 wrote: »

Hi all. I'm hoping someone here might be able to give me some pointers. I play off 13 and up to this year was making reasonable steady progress. In June i decided to upgrade my irons. I bought the new ping g30 in stiff shaft after being fitted. My previous set were callaway razr x in uniflex. I am getting a lot straighter ball flight now but i seem to be hitting the ball very high and have lost roughly 10 yards per club. For example i am now struggling to hit my 5 iron longer than 160 yards. This was always my club for the 160 to 175 range. What could i be doing wrong? ?

You have changed a good bit all at once.

To start - how long are you hitting irons ? I got new irons lost loads of distance, but it is about control at the end of the day - not distance.

I'll be honest and say that if your high end of your old 5 iron was 175 - you sounded marginal for stiff.

I would say a guy who goes to stiff could get most 5 irons over 180 +

opinionated3

You could be right but at the time i was pushing my old iron shot most times. The pings are giving me a way straighter ball flight but as i say I've lost distance. I possibly was marginal between regular and stiff shaft but the fitting was telling us stiff so i just trusted the numbers. ..

whizbang

Sounds like a classic case of a cheap shop fitter. Same old routine; see a punter, plamause him, tell them they are good enough to play stiff shafts, etc, etc. maybe make a few extra quid.

Cue another set of second hand irons with stiff shafts.

Sorry Op, I might be wrong in your case, but far too many stiff shaft clubs have been sold to golfers who would be better playing regulars.

The Uniflex idea was probably meant to allow for this. Personally I think they are more towards regular than stiff.

There are other reasons for the changes, as others have pointed out. Lighter heads will feel stiffer, lighter shafts will make the heads feel heavier, and may change your swing speed.
They could have been wrongly cut from the tip rather than the butt, this will make them stiffer.

Go back to the fitter. I imagine you didn't get them cheap, so make them work for you. (clubs and fitters!)

FixdePitchmark

whizbang wrote: »

Sounds like a classic case of a cheap shop fitter. Same old routine; see a punter, plamause him, tell them they are good enough to play stiff shafts, etc, etc. maybe make a few extra quid.

Cue another set of second hand irons with stiff shafts.

Sorry Op, I might be wrong in your case, but far too many stiff shaft clubs have been sold to golfers who would be better playing regulars.

The Uniflex idea was probably meant to allow for this. Personally I think they are more towards regular than stiff.

There are other reasons for the changes, as others have pointed out. Lighter heads will feel stiffer, lighter shafts will make the heads feel heavier, and may change your swing speed.
They could have been wrongly cut from the tip rather than the butt, this will make them stiffer.

Go back to the fitter. I imagine you didn't get them cheap, so make them work for you. (clubs and fitters!)

Maybe that is a bit harsh - but I would love to hear ShivasIrons opinion on this one.

Like, most guys that have a high end swing speed - can get an 8 iron over 150 - the 7 iron can touch 170 - 6 180 yards. This lad was not getting a 5 iron out to 175 yards

Doesn't take laser - shot tracker - or any high end stuff to see he doesn't have a high end swing speed.

By the way - I'm totally not a technophobe on fitting - but I do hope the lads at it know what they are doing.

1/2 an hour on a machine for an amateur of mid to high handicap is fairly random data to be honest.

swinging a golf club that is too stiff is horrible - OP , do they feel dead - heavy.

dan_ep82

Could be new clubs your swinging them different and presenting more loft ( which would suit your current flight) thus losing distance. Could be strike either

First Up

opinionated3 wrote: »

Hi all. I'm hoping someone here might be able to give me some pointers. I play off 13 and up to this year was making reasonable steady progress. In June i decided to upgrade my irons. I bought the new ping g30 in stiff shaft after being fitted. My previous set were callaway razr x in uniflex. I am getting a lot straighter ball flight now but i seem to be hitting the ball very high and have lost roughly 10 yards per club. For example i am now struggling to hit my 5 iron longer than 160 yards. This was always my club for the 160 to 175 range. What could i be doing wrong? ?

Sacrificing ten yards for greater accuracy is not that bad a deal but 160 yards with a 5 iron does sound short for a 13 handicap. A too stiff shaft is at least as likely to affect accuracy as distance so I wouldn't rush to judgement on the clubs or the fitter.

You could probably benefit from a swing diagnostic with a good pro but if you are hitting the new clubs straight, just take the club that gets you home.

rrpc

I'm not sure if this is the reason but...

The regular shaft may have been slightly bowed at impact, thus presenting less loft to the ball hence longer flight and less height.

The stiff shaft would probably give more loft, so higher and shorter flight with the added side effect of less run on the fairway.

You might be losing ten yards of carry in the air but also more yards of run.

Or I could be talking through my rear end

Dr.Rieux

I play ping g30 irons regular shaft, and would see 175-180 yards out of my 5 iron, where did you get them fitted? Bring them back and go on their monitor again, or go to a pro with a trackman and see what they make of it

ShivasIrons

whizbang wrote: »

Sounds like a classic case of a cheap shop fitter. Same old routine; see a punter, plamause him, tell them they are good enough to play stiff shafts, etc, etc. maybe make a few extra quid.

Cue another set of second hand irons with stiff shafts.

Sorry Op, I might be wrong in your case, but far too many stiff shaft clubs have been sold to golfers who would be better playing regulars.

The Uniflex idea was probably meant to allow for this. Personally I think they are more towards regular than stiff.

There are other reasons for the changes, as others have pointed out. Lighter heads will feel stiffer, lighter shafts will make the heads feel heavier, and may change your swing speed.
They could have been wrongly cut from the tip rather than the butt, this will make them stiffer.

Go back to the fitter. I imagine you didn't get them cheap, so make them work for you. (clubs and fitters!)

Ability isn't really a factor in what flex shaft a golfer should use. A higher handicap with a lot of speed should use a stiffer shaft then a lower handicap with not a lot of speed.

Also speed is only one of the factors in what shaft flex a player should use, tempo and how the player releases the shaft, are other factors. This is why you will see players with similar speeds using completely different shafts.

For the OP it could be the case that he releases the Callaway Uniflex shaft, which I think was a Nippon in the Razr X, differently than the shaft in the Pings. It's hard to say what the exact reasons behind the different flights are without seeing the player hit both clubs and measuring exactly what the clubs are.

opinionated3

Thanks for the replies folks. My gut feeling is that i can't load the shaft like i could with the callaway. When i hit a ball with what feels like a perfect downward strike and the ball flies hot off the face its still way too short.

ShivasIrons

opinionated3 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies folks. My gut feeling is that i can't load the shaft like i could with the callaway. When i hit a ball with what feels like a perfect downward strike and the ball flies hot off the face its still way too short.

During the fitting were your old irons compared with the new irons?

rrpc

opinionated3 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies folks. My gut feeling is that i can't load the shaft like i could with the callaway. When i hit a ball with what feels like a perfect downward strike and the ball flies hot off the face its still way too short.

To e honest, it doesn't seem like that much of a problem really if you're hitting your irons higher and straighter than your old irons. A loss of 10 yards a club just means that you may have to fill the gaps with hybrids or fairway woods at the longer distances or you might need to add a 4 iron if you don't have one.

Consistency and accuracy are the aims of all golfers. You seem to be getting that with the new irons.

death1234567

rrpc wrote: »

Consistency and accuracy are the aims of all golfers. You seem to be getting that with the new irons.

Statistically it's distance that has the biggest affect on your handicap. If you are hitting a 5 iron 155yards then it'll be very tough to get your handicap much lower than 13.

rrpc

death1234567 wrote: »

Statistically it's distance that has the biggest affect on your handicap. If you are hitting a 5 iron 155yards then it'll be very tough to get your handicap much lower than 13.

But distance isn't sacrificed if you fill in with another club or clubs.

If your irons start with a 5, then assuming you have three wedges, that's 8 clubs with a possible 4 remaining (not counting driver or putter).

Most par 4s are around the 400 yard mark, so if you're hitting your drive about 250, you're at worst a 5 or 6 iron for your approach. If you've a couple of fairway woods or hybrids, then that should take care of the 400 to 450 yard par 4s.

The point I'm making about accuracy and height is that the OP is more likely to be on the green with his straight, high iron shot than his longer (but less accurate) old irons.

bustercherry

rrpc wrote: »

But distance isn't sacrificed if you fill in with another club or clubs.

If your irons start with a 5, then assuming you have three wedges, that's 8 clubs with a possible 4 remaining (not counting driver or putter).

Most par 4s are around the 400 yard mark, so if you're hitting your drive about 250, you're at worst a 5 or 6 iron for your approach. If you've a couple of fairway woods or hybrids, then that should take care of the 400 to 450 yard par 4s.

The point I'm making about accuracy and height is that the OP is more likely to be on the green with his straight, high iron shot than his longer (but less accurate) old irons.

If you are only hitting a 5 iron 155 yards, bar having a much differed swing for your driver, you will not be driving it 250 yards.

charlieIRL

IMHO, I'd take accuracy over distance. No point in hitting the ball miles if its way off line!!

rrpc

bustercherry wrote: »

If you are only hitting a 5 iron 155 yards, bar having a much differed swing for your driver, you will not be driving it 250 yards.

Well he said he was struggling to go longer than 160 and used to hit his old one 160-175 which I reckon puts him in the 220 to 250 yard region with his driver.

The OP can answer for himself on that score, but I know that if I'm consistently hitting irons straight and the same distance every time, then I'd be happy enough.

He's only had them a few months, so you'd expect that they would take a while to get the best from them.

ShivasIrons

rrpc wrote: »

He's only had them a few months, so you'd expect that they would take a while to get the best from them.

This isn't true about new clubs, they should be better immediately. There can be small adjustments to make in judgement but these should only take a few rounds, no way it should take a few months.

A driver should be quicker, should be apparent in a round or two that it's better then a golfer's old one.

rrpc

ShivasIrons wrote: »

This isn't true about new clubs, they should be better immediately. There can be small adjustments to make in judgement but these should only take a few rounds, no way it should take a few months.

I changed my irons about a year ago and I can say that for me it was a while before I started to get the best from them.

Granted it was from a ten year old set to the newest on the market, but it definitely took time and a lot of practice. They are now (for me) much better than the old set, but there was a time when I was worse with them.

opinionated3

ShivasIrons wrote: »

During the fitting were your old irons compared with the new irons?

Yep. The fitter said my push shot was as a result of having a 2 degree flat lie angle on my old clubs . Also said my swing speed (96) would be more suitable to stiff shaft irons. My driver and fairway woods are stiff too but I'm very happy with them. I'm hearing now as well that is not uncommon to have different shaft flexes from woods to irons so i guess I'm a little all over the place really!

Montgolfier

opinionated3 wrote: »

Yep. The fitter said my push shot was as a result of having a 2 degree flat lie angle on my old clubs . Also said my swing speed (96) would be more suitable to stiff shaft irons. My driver and fairway woods are stiff too but I'm very happy with them. I'm hearing now as well that is not uncommon to have different shaft flexes from woods to irons so i guess I'm a little all over the place really!

Take them back then, if your hitting your irons 96mph with the 5 iron and the ball travels 15yds tell him your not happy.

Maybe your extra distance is lost in the air, which could cause the ball to be more affected by wind. Maybe it's how your striking the new irons missing the sweet zone. Sounds like your shafts are not stiff enough to me, more flex (softer) imo means more height as it adds loft. Look up shaft bend at impact on google.

You paid a lot of money go back and keep going back untill your satisfied, if your still not satisfied write to ping or go to another fitter.

ShivasIrons

opinionated3 wrote: »

Yep. The fitter said my push shot was as a result of having a 2 degree flat lie angle on my old clubs . Also said my swing speed (96) would be more suitable to stiff shaft irons. My driver and fairway woods are stiff too but I'm very happy with them. I'm hearing now as well that is not uncommon to have different shaft flexes from woods to irons so i guess I'm a little all over the place really!

Why not just adjust the lie angle in your old irons?

lawred2

opinionated3 wrote: »

You could be right but at the time i was pushing my old iron shot most times. The pings are giving me a way straighter ball flight but as i say I've lost distance. I possibly was marginal between regular and stiff shaft but the fitting was telling us stiff so i just trusted the numbers. ..

surely that's in most cases a good thing... a controlled 160 yards is better than 175 into water right of the green

just use a 4 iron if you need an extra 10 yards

FixdePitchmark

opinionated3 wrote: »

Yep. The fitter said my push shot was as a result of having a 2 degree flat lie angle on my old clubs . Also said my swing speed (96) would be more suitable to stiff shaft irons. My driver and fairway woods are stiff too but I'm very happy with them. I'm hearing now as well that is not uncommon to have different shaft flexes from woods to irons so i guess I'm a little all over the place really!

Sorry just to ask how long have you got them .

I'd say I hit well over 1500 + balls before I got any sort of feel , when i changed shafts and irons.

opinionated3

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Sorry just to ask how long have you got them .

I'd say I hit well over 1500 + balls before I got any sort of feel , when i changed shafts and irons.

Have them now around 3 months. I see what people are saying about getting used to the new distances but it is definitely impeding my game. Every shot is ballooning and dropping dead to the ground. It's hard to believe i know, without seeing me play in person but i played today and despite my usual full blooded controlled swing i couldn't hit a par 3 green with 142 to the centre with my 7 iron. Embarrassing to say the least. I've gone to the range numerous times to see if i can change something but nothing helps. I'm actually seriously beginning to dislike these clubs now! !

whizbang

Every shot is ballooning and dropping dead to the ground

I thought this was a symptom of too much flex in your shafts...:eek:

Maybe the lower lie angle on your old irons has created a lower/less spin launch than your new ones..?

FixdePitchmark

opinionated3 wrote: »

Have them now around 3 months. I see what people are saying about getting used to the new distances but it is definitely impeding my game. Every shot is ballooning and dropping dead to the ground. It's hard to believe i know, without seeing me play in person but i played today and despite my usual full blooded controlled swing i couldn't hit a par 3 green with 142 to the centre with my 7 iron. Embarrassing to say the least. I've gone to the range numerous times to see if i can change something but nothing helps. I'm actually seriously beginning to dislike these clubs now! !

OK - that sounds wrong.

You obviously hit it well ?

You should have got to that pin with an 8. Your saying you didn't even hit green.


Lads - I know distance is not all that - But not sure I'd like to be hitting a 5 iron to 160 - as you would have to do if above is right - It bascially means you can't get a club out to 180.

I'll be honest - that isn't golf for a lad at your level. Means you may not have an iron to hit to some par 3s.

Mantis Toboggan

opinionated3 wrote: »

It's hard to believe i know, without seeing me play in person but i played today and despite my usual full blooded controlled swing i couldn't hit a par 3 green with 142 to the centre with my 7 iron. Embarrassing to say the least.

Maybe the course have changed from yards to metres....?

rrpc

opinionated3 wrote: »

Have them now around 3 months. I see what people are saying about getting used to the new distances but it is definitely impeding my game. Every shot is ballooning and dropping dead to the ground. It's hard to believe i know, without seeing me play in person but i played today and despite my usual full blooded controlled swing i couldn't hit a par 3 green with 142 to the centre with my 7 iron. Embarrassing to say the least. I've gone to the range numerous times to see if i can change something but nothing helps. I'm actually seriously beginning to dislike these clubs now! !

As whizbang says above, your symptom looks very like the result of a too flexible shaft although that should also lead to a hook shot.

The problem with shaft flexes is that no two manufacturers are the same. There doesn't seem to be an industry standard.

If I were you, I'd go back to the fitter and ask to take a couple of different flexes in a seven iron and take them out to the range for a couple of days and try them out. I'd also get some of those club face stickers that show where on the face you're hitting the ball and see if the change in lie angle is affecting where you're striking the ball.

Swing speed isn't the only factor in determining shaft flex.

RoadRunner

Have you tried a different ball?
(Haven't read the whole thread apols if already suggested)

opinionated3

rrpc wrote: »

As whizbang says above, your symptom looks very like the result of a too flexible shaft although that should also lead to a hook shot.

The problem with shaft flexes is that no two manufacturers are the same. There doesn't seem to be an industry standard.

If I were you, I'd go back to the fitter and ask to take a couple of different flexes in a seven iron and take them out to the range for a couple of days and try them out. I'd also get some of those club face stickers that show where on the face you're hitting the ball and see if the change in lie angle is affecting where you're striking the ball.

Swing speed isn't the only factor in determining shaft flex.

If i remember correctly i actually think the fitter was using my driver swing speed as the gauge. ...i would assume now that that is totally incorrect??

FixdePitchmark

opinionated3 wrote: »

If i remember correctly i actually think the fitter was using my driver swing speed as the gauge. ...i would assume now that that is totally incorrect??

I was worried when you said 96 mph swing speed earlier - would hope that was not a driver speed.

I'd say go back anyway - and do again.

rrpc

opinionated3 wrote: »

If i remember correctly i actually think the fitter was using my driver swing speed as the gauge. ...i would assume now that that is totally incorrect??

Not if you're buying a driver

You should try a couple of different flexes and see how they feel and fly. The reason I suggested the stickers is the possibility that you are catching the ball near the shaft and it's coming off the top of the clubface.

opinionated3

rrpc wrote: »

Not if you're buying a driver

You should try a couple of different flexes and see how they feel and fly. The reason I suggested the stickers is the possibility that you are catching the ball near the shaft and it's coming off the top of the clubface.

Did the stickers during the fitting. With my old irons which were 2 degrees flat i was actually connecting too close to the toe. When i was handed the ping in standard lie the fitter said i was meeting the ball absolutely spot on. Does any one know if ping stiff shafts are a bit stiffer than other brands? ? The uniflex shafts i had in the callaways were supposed to sit somewhere between regular and stiff and maybe that just suited me and as an earlier poster stated maybe the fitter should just have recommended getting the lie angle adjusted? By the way thanks everyone for your replies. It is appreciated.