Commercial tax

Shane M89

Hello all this issue has been throw around quite a bit bit advice is needed here I am thinking of buying a 3ltr jeep that is classed as a crew cab commercial with €333 tax a year I've no business or vat number as I work for another company.
Just wondering how things would go when it comes to renewing the tax and having the kids seats in the back any advice guys ?

Dublinhurler

I had to bring in a letter from the revenue with my details on it and vat number to get tax. Years ago it was very easy but they have clamped down on it in recent years

kay 9

If you're a farmer then a use your herd number. Kids won't be insured in a crew cab afaik. They're for work. Not being smart, but that's one law I wouldn't break.

Shane M89

kay 9 wrote: »

If you're a farmer then a use your herd number. Kids won't be insured in a crew cab afaik. They're for work. Not being smart, but that's one law I wouldn't break.

Yeah I know what your saying just wondering how long I could chance it
as private tax is huge on them

Shane M89

Dublinhurler wrote: »

I had to bring in a letter from the revenue with my details on it and vat number to get tax. Years ago it was very easy but they have clamped down on it in recent years

Yes I used to own a courier company getting vans taxed was a torture the amount of paperwork is silly weres I can tax the family car in two seconds online

Atlantic Dawn

Shane M89 wrote: »

Yeah I know what your saying just wondering how long I could chance it
as private tax is huge on them

Did you understand what he said, the kids wouldn't be insured in it, what part of that would you chance? It's not like it's a bag of bricks your carrying.

Shane M89

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Did you understand what he said, the kids wouldn't be insured in it, what part of that would you chance? It's not like it's a bag of bricks your carrying.

Chill i know man

anheneti

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Did you understand what he said, the kids wouldn't be insured in it, what part of that would you chance? It's not like it's a bag of bricks your carrying.

Ridiculous statement of course your kids are insured in it, every commercial policy covers social and domestic use as well

Shane M89

anheneti wrote: »

Ridiculous statement of course your kids are insured in it, every commercial policy covers social and domestic use as well

Atlantic dawn was the name of a fishing trawler up my neck of the country one time are you from Donegal ?

As to this topic I dunno if it's worth the hassle it's just a lovely jeep and I need something for work

Effects

I just gave them my PPS number when I taxed my commercial. Not everyone who runs a business or has a commercial vehicle needs to register for vat anyway.
I wouldn't want to get stopped and have no valid reason to have a commercial though. People have been stopped using them in their own time and got in trouble for the tax issue.
I had an accident last year, not my fault and I was parked at the time. Insurance company were pretty thorough when checking where I was going to and coming from at the time to make sure it was during the course of work.

Shane M89

Effects wrote: »

I just gave them my PPS number when I taxed my commercial. Not everyone who runs a business or has a commercial vehicle needs to register for vat anyway.
I wouldn't want to get stopped and have no valid reason to have a commercial though. People have been stopped using them in their own time and got in trouble for the tax issue.
I had an accident last year, not my fault and I was parked at the time. Insurance company were pretty thorough when checking where I was going to and coming from at the time to make sure it was during the course of work.

Yeah I agree maybe I should buy something like a 1.3 diesel opel combo and tax it private still low enough

Dr Turk Turkelton

What have tax and insurance got to with each other?
Just tax the thing commercial for €333 and insure it private.
As long as your insured properly is the most important thing.

Shane M89

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

What have tax and insurance got to with each other?
Just tax the thing commercial for €333 and insure it private.
As long as your insured properly is the most important thing.

Cool any idea what a crew cab jeep would be like on insurance

Dr Turk Turkelton

Shane M89 wrote: »

Cool any idea what a crew cab jeep would be like on insurance

Not an iota but just make sure you are properly insured. Tax is only s scrap of paper on the windscreen but insurance is everything.
Insurance companies don't care how a vehicle is taxed just make sure it is insured for private use.
Try the 4×4 forum on here. A lot less condescending posters there.

Effects

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

What have tax and insurance got to with each other?
Just tax the thing commercial for €333 and insure it private.
As long as you're insured properly is the most important thing.

Surely a commercially taxed vehicle is only supposed to be used for commercial purposes?

People converting passenger four-wheel-drive vehicles from private to commercial road tax classification have been warned that they are in breach of the law unless they use the vehicles strictly for the carriage of goods “in the course of trade and business”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/conversions-can-put-drivers-on-wrong-side-of-law-1.2088496

9935452

Effects wrote: »

Surely a commercially taxed vehicle is only supposed to be used for commercial purposes?

Thats the idea. in the event of an accident the way insurance companies are going they could use it as an excuse not to pay out and or you could get into trouble with the revenue/customs for using a commercially taxed vehicle as a private vehicle.
A few of the lads at work have berlingos.partners. they were able to tax them commercially but 2 went private as they use them privately. for 150/200 euro they reckon it wasnt worth the hassle if anything happened

Dublinhurler

You can get insurance on a commercial vehicle and also use the vehicle for personal use just tell the insurance its for both commercial and social that way you will be insured correctly.

As I said before you need a form of proof to get the tax. Like a previous poster said you can just give them your pps number but doing it this way you are breaking the law and I wouldn't know what the penalty for that is.

R.O.R

RF111A needs to be completed for the first taxation of any commercial vehicle. This states:

I declare that vehicle registration number XXXXXXX will be used only as a
goods carrying vehicle in the course of my business/trade and will not be used at any time for social, domestic or pleasure purposes.

I believe some authorities require a Crew Cab declaration, but we've never had to fill one of those in.

For the 5 Seat commercials that I strongly suspect will not be used solely for commercial purposes, we let the customer lie to the Revenue commission on the form so there's not come back to us. Currently it's about 50/50 for tax between commercial and private on the likes of the Discovery 5 Seat and Kuga 4 seat Commercials.

Polo_Cluvie

Herd number doesn't cut it anymore. You need details from revenue and that's a fact as my other half has a herd number and is talking about buying a 4x4. Contacted motor tax in Clare Co Co and got the forms out. Written in big bold black letters in Herd Number will not suffice.

Effects

It's 4 years since I first registered my commercial van and at the time I was working PAYE. I'm self employed now but they never seem to check anything anytime I've been to have it taxed again.

9935452

Effects wrote: »

It's 4 years since I first registered my commercial van and at the time I was working PAYE. I'm self employed now but they never seem to check anything anytime I've been to have it taxed again.

When you change the vehicle , they will look again.
ive a buddy in the same position and he says he is never changing the van . treats it like a baby now

BnB

Hi - I was also looking at getting a crew cab for my every day car.

I have a limited company and we already have a few vans so it would all be above board.

My main motivation for doing it would be to reduce Benefit in Kind. If I buy a standard car as a company car, there is pretty much no advantage to me as I would get killed in Benefit in Kind. However, if I get a commercial (like a pick up) the BIK is much less.

Could I buy a commercial like a pickup, and tax and insure it as a private vehicle (so that I wouldn't be in trouble if stropped by the guards and more importantly, the family would be insured) but pay the commercial rate of BIK ?

R.O.R

BnB wrote: »

Hi - I was also looking at getting a crew cab for my every day car.

I have a limited company and we already have a few vans so it would all be above board.

My main motivation for doing it would be to reduce Benefit in Kind. If I buy a standard car as a company car, there is pretty much no advantage to me as I would get killed in Benefit in Kind. However, if I get a commercial (like a pick up) the BIK is much less.

Could I buy a commercial like a pickup, and tax and insure it as a private vehicle (so that I wouldn't be in trouble if stropped by the guards and more importantly, the family would be insured) but pay the commercial rate of BIK ?

Are you basing the BIK being less because a Crew Cab is cheaper, or do you (mistakenly) think a Crew Cab would put you on the flat rate of BIK for Vans, of 5%?

It's only Vans that get the low BIK rate of 5%, not all commercials. Revenue's definition of a van is a vehicle with neither windows nor seats behind the driver, and Crew Cabs fail on both counts.

BnB

R.O.R wrote: »

Are you basing the BIK being less because a Crew Cab is cheaper, or do you (mistakenly) think a Crew Cab would put you on the flat rate of BIK for Vans, of 5%?

It's only Vans that get the low BIK rate of 5%, not all commercials. Revenue's definition of a van is a vehicle with neither windows nor seats behind the driver, and Crew Cabs fail on both counts.

You're right. I (mistakenly) thought a Crew Cab would put me on the flat rate of BIK for Vans, of 5%. So thank you - You have answered my question

R.O.R

BnB wrote: »

You're right. I (mistakenly) thought a Crew Cab would put me on the flat rate of BIK for Vans, of 5%. So thank you - You have answered my question

There is the benefit that all VAT can be reclaimed on the lease/purchase of a commercial, whereas it's only 20% of the VAT on a passenger vehicle (if used 60% of the time for business, and has emissions of 156g or lower), so the overall cost to the business is lower.

Rumour is that the 5 seat commercial VAT reclaim loophole, may be closed next year.

Gumbo

Tax : technically you are signing a declaration for non personal use. Will you ever be punished for it, no, never in my opinion. I renewed my crew cab this month online with no declaration required.


Insurance : you are covered to carry passengers, kids, do the shopping, do the school run etc etc etc to insure it commercially, it must be taxed commercially. Insurance company will want a valid occupation to insure you commercially. Builder, inspector, tradesman etc an office admin person shouldn't cut it.

gooner99

So if you are not using it commercially can you tax and insure it privately. If the answer is yes, then can you just doe it every year as normal?

Anyone done this?

gooner99

Just been in touch with my insurer checking out insurance for a van for domestic use (policy was previously on a car). No problem with the insurance which would be classed for commercial/private use. exceptions are carrying of hazardous goods and use for reward. It does not include driving of other vehicles even on comp. price for myself and partner, €467 comp , €373 tp. both with full no claims protection.