The current state of creativity on TV

The Black Oil

Long, long analysis with various links by Maureen Ryan - a critic I've a lot of time for.

I think Netflix and Amazon executives give their creative types a lot of rope, and I’ve often had occasion to wonder is they’re giving them too much rope. It’s common for their dramas to get tangled up and slow down, even at the pilot stage, and in the middle of seasons, Netflix dramas often sag and meander, and -- as Singer notes -- they take a long time to work up a head of steam.

But this isn’t just the case at streaming services: It’s happening a lot in the more ambitious realms of television. Maybe it’s just me, but when it comes to many shows, especially dramas, in the cable, pay-cable and streaming arenas, I see a trend toward laxness and a lack of energy and dynamic tension. There's more ambition than in a derivative NBC or CBS procedural, sure, but there’s also often a lack of urgency within an episode and, most notably, over the course of a season.

It's also fairly common to find that the character development is not strong and vivid enough to make me want to revisit these shows while they figure out how to crank up the narrative drive, as was the case with Amazon’s “Bosch” and USA’s “Complications.” I did finally begin to enjoy AMC's “Halt and Catch Fire,” especially in its second season, but most people had checked out well before it kicked into high gear, and that may have doomed the show (though I hope not).

I feel she's right about the meandering and character development. I've gotten the sense with House of Cards for example, that at some point they had a meeting in the writers' room where they go "oh sh!t, this is a Netflix/binge show, write accordingly", and the creative side has suffered quite noticeably. I get that 10-13 episodes gives some of structure, but it's almost as if the writing has been pushed too towards the binge model. Saying that, I have just finished Narcos, which I believe is Netflix's first subtitled show and found it very enjoyable. They'll have 3 more from France, Portugal and Japan next year. Netflix/Amazon have an advantage with a larger geographical reach. The likes of FX will keep tipping away. I can't think of any of its shows that have had mass appeal and why should they?

That the article points out some studio execs aren't willing to lend a hand in sort out creative issues is disappointing, imo.

Nody

Honestly compared to movies they are doing brilliant; how many remakes, spin offs or simply another in a series of existing movies do we get these days? Honestly TV shows are more interesting than most movies in terms of creativity...

Having said that yes some series are slow to develop but I think it's part of the format; a movie has 90 min to introduce, peak and deliver a solution to the plot while a normal TV show will easily have 6x that at least if not more. On the other hand people complain if they do episodal content (see Killjoys for example) rather than series long plots (which obviously ties in with binge watching it).

Sudden Valley

I think movies do have one distinct advantage: they need to have a set a beginning, middle and end when they begin filming . TV shows because they generally don't have a set run/no. of episodes in mind, suffer with their middle and ends.

The Black Oil

Comparison with films is a whole other topic.

Pacing's not really the issue, though I'd gone along with the article in that the binge model leads to bulk of a show's creative juices being sucked up by the need to push plot. Characterisation in the TV streaming world is suffering, imo and we're yet to see a show that excels in all departments. By contrast, cable shows have a healthier balance between story, character and execution.

pickarooney

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I think movies do have one distinct advantage: they need to have a set a beginning, middle and end when they begin filming . TV shows because they generally don't have a set run/no. of episodes in mind, suffer with their middle and ends.

Less and less so with all the trilogies and crossover franchise films.

don ramo

binge watching while good has its drawbacks, a shows hard work that builds a character over 2 or 3 seasons is lost in a binge watch, week to week you get to watch the episode and digest it, and probably come here and debate motivations, but that doesnt happen when you binge watch,

you dont need to analyses situations, you simply go straight to the next episode and find out what happens, and probably take the solution at face value, unlike week to week, youll probably read more into the situation, how A lead to D and resulted in Z,

i think some binge shows end up being more throwaway TV, youll always remember shows that aired week to week over 6 seasons, and the anticipation and debate that went with the intervals, breaking bad and lost being 2 particular shows that ill always remember for the level of debate they produced,

TV has always had creative issues, that why you only end up with a handful of good tv shows even though hundreds if not thousands are made each year, and if your lucky you have 3 maybe 4 great shows airing in any given year, and another 20-30 shows that you can watch, there is great diversity, and there is something for everyone out there, moreso now than ever before,

The Black Oil

Most of us probably grew up with appointment television - 20-24 episodes per year, and there was, nostalgia alert, something to be said for that. I didn't enjoy the online chatter for the final chapter of Breaking Bad. It was hyperbolic and too there was too much anticipation of might happen. Not very relaxed discussion, I found.

Binge viewing can definitely have that disposable feel you mentioned. Binge-writing? Still some serious growing pains, imo.

FloatingVoter

That phrase, binge-writing got me thinking. You have well developed seasons like True Detective 1 followed by a mediocre at best second season. A rushed season of Narcos when Escobar's life could easily be covered in 3 very dark, explosive and entertaining seasons. No development of character at the cost of ramming the plot down your throat.
Back in the day of appointment TV, shows got cancelled but also shows were allowed to develop. Cheers and Friends were all character based (you could do each and every episode of both in your local parish hall). Dallas and Dynasty (can anyone remember a plotline but you do remember JR and Alexis).
I have no problem with binge watching (mea culpa) but when the writers and studio bosses start looking at how much can we fit into the first episode / first season so the viewers won't switch off we develop problems. Just like failed rock bands with the Difficult Second Album, there is nothing left in the tank because the characters are paper thin and the plot has been used up to garner your attention.

don ramo

amazon i think got binge watching right with the Bosch series a few months back, it was a very well paced season of tv, some character were a little underdeveloped, probably the only issue i had with, but it didnt bother me really, but the series was centered mainly on Bosch himself, i havent watched any other Amazon shows yet, really looking forward to The Man in the High Castle, and seeing whats its like compared to Bosch, and other online shows,

as The Black Oil was saying about the forums during week to week viewing getting hyperbolic, thats definitely an issue i find, i dont go near the Game of Thrones forum, the show i find is completely over analyzed, i found lost and breaking bad great shows to debate as they aired, BB did get very bad near the end, when it seemed the entire planet suddenly found this great show thats been on for 6 years all on the same day, but even the likes of the arrow thread is already in overdrive for a show currently off air, and that really is only an ok show,

ive binged 3 or 4 shows over the summer, but they were spread out, the worst was watching all 6 seasons of community in 3 weeks, but it was so good, i watch Narcos over a week, and Marco Polo the same, probably gonna start Sons of Anarchy now, maybe have it watched by christmass, with the normal TV season about to return ill be back to weekly viewing so my binge viewing will slow down, which isnt a bad thing at all,

most shows are designed for spread out viewing, to give you time to digest what youve seen, id hate to binge Game of Thrones, the shock value would be lost, i watched the 4 leaked episodes of season 5, and i was immediately sorry i done it, it kinda ruined the season for me, it was still good but id say most of the complaints of season 5 could be down to that leak, it sounds stupid but it really broke the season up,

FloatingVoter

don ramo wrote: »

most shows are designed for spread out viewing, to give you time to digest what youve seen, id hate to binge Game of Thrones, the shock value would be lost, i watched the 4 leaked episodes of season 5, and i was immediately sorry i done it, it kinda ruined the season for me, it was still good but id say most of the complaints of season 5 could be down to that leak, it sounds stupid but it really broke the season up,

Same here. The second half became a chore to watch - I kept wondering when is this going to start and then the season was over.
I also binged on the Doctor Who leaks - with the result that the colour version with special effects in wasn't half as good as the workprint. Although that probably proves that Doctor Who has more going for it than whizzbang FX and that underlying characters and comedy can overcome sometimes shaky plotting.

Harry Palmr

A very American issue I think. While sometimes UK drama series are too short better that than some endless ramble into a future that might well be cancelled. Probably no accident that the American series I watch are 10-12 episode series in duration. Being confronted by 26 hours of something based around a concept which becomes increasingly flaccid, with mid season breaks (and the wait to see if its actually coming back often) seems fairly pointless unless you watch it after the fact.

FloatingVoter

....on a completely drunken sidenote - I'm currently bingewatching (literally) Once Upon A Time which is a glorious example of making the whole damned thing up as you go along. We've heard about the roomful of monkeys with typewriters producing Hamlet eventually. Once Upon A Time is what toddlers on acid would produce. And fun it is.

The Black Oil

It'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the writers' room of a binge show, compared to something from the cable world.

don ramo wrote: »

BB did get very bad near the end, when it seemed the entire planet suddenly found this great show thats been on for 6 years all on the same day

That's pretty much it, it was like half the internet discovered the show.

don ramo wrote: »

most shows are designed for spread out viewing, to give you time to digest what youve seen, id hate to binge Game of Thrones, the shock value would be lost, i watched the 4 leaked episodes of season 5, and i was immediately sorry i done it, it kinda ruined the season for me, it was still good but id say most of the complaints of season 5 could be down to that leak, it sounds stupid but it really broke the season up,

Did they ever got to the bottom of the leak? I think the talk at the time was that a critic accidentally left a screener lying around. Must have been uncomfortable to be in critics' circle at that time. You'd think at this stage they'd have some sort of Mission: Impossible like DVD that would self-destruct 5 seconds after use. :cool:

TonyD79

FloatingVoter wrote: »

....on a completely drunken sidenote - I'm currently bingewatching (literally) Once Upon A Time which is a glorious example of making the whole damned thing up as you go along. We've heard about the roomful of monkeys with typewriters producing Hamlet eventually. Once Upon A Time is what toddlers on acid would produce. And fun it is.

Is it not from producers who worked on Lost? Its seems like they took the plot of the finale season of Lost and substituted fairy land for the island!

FloatingVoter

TonyD79 wrote: »

Is it not from producers who worked on Lost? Its seems like they took the plot of the finale season of Lost and substituted fairy land for the island!

I never watched Lost beyond the first few episodes - ducked a bullet there. OUAT is more a show to be enjoyed while under the influence. Probably is the same producers - this time giving up any pretense at keeping a coherent plot together.

The Black Oil

Jennifer Morrison is in it, iirc. I've not seen a single episode.

FloatingVoter

The Black Oil wrote: »

Jennifer Morrison is in it, iirc. I've not seen a single episode.

Yup. Robert Carlyle and Lana Parilla (The Evil Queen) nick the acting honours though. Also features Snow White and Prince Charming or "the two idiots" as they are frequently referred to.

JohnFalstaff

And our Colin O'Donoghue as Captain Hook!