Why are manufacturers so secretive about weights?

Qualitymark

What is it with the top secret weight of bikes? As you wander through the catalogues comparing models, one of the most important factors is weight. Yet Giant, for instance, invariably lists the weight as

The most accurate way to determine any bike’s weight is to have your local dealer weigh it for you. Many brands strive to list the lowest possible weight, but in reality weight can vary based on size, finish, hardware and accessories. All Giant bikes are designed for best-in-class weight and ride quality.

So yesterday I rang a shop - one of the best shops in the country, and asked what weight three Giant models were. "Ah, the dearer ones would be a lot lighter," the dealer said. "How much lighter?" "Ah, well, a pound or two."

I asked about specific models - the various Thrives and the Alight. "The Alight would be a lot heavier, now." "How much heavier?" "A pound or two."

What the hell?

07Lapierre

Depends on the size of the frame too. Any weight listed in brochures is usually for the smallest frame size.

They also don't want to tell you because there's probably a lighter alternative out there.

inc21

size, wheels, tyres, grupo everything really makes a difference.

Borderfox

I bought the girlfriend a bike and brought a luggage scales around the shops to weigh them. We have three flights of stairs to negotiate so needed something light.

In the end we went for a giant liv that weighed 8.9 kg

There are so many variables in a bike that unless the give individual weights for each frame and finishing kit it would be wrong

Qualitymark

Borderfox wrote: »

I bought the girlfriend a bike and brought a luggage scales around the shops to weigh them. We have three flights of stairs to negotiate so needed something light.

In the end we went for a giant liv that weighed 8.9 kg

There are so many variables in a bike that unless the give individual weights for each frame and finishing kit it would be wrong

That's what I'm doing, bringing luggage scales around.

But those Liv models (which one did you get?) come with no carrier or mudguards (no mudguards! in Ireland!) so that's an extra €80 and an extra… "Ah, a pound or two," said the man in the shop.

It would be simple enough to have a weight scale for XS, S and M for the various Liv models.

G1032

Don't forget when you add two full bidons when you set out on a long spin you'll add another 1.6kg (3.5 lbs)!

I wouldn't get too caught up with weight.

There are too many variables too for the manufacturers to give exact weights I reckon. Far better too to lose 3 lbs in body weight than pay the extra €€€'s to shave that weight off the bike!!

Qualitymark

G1032 wrote: »

Don't forget when you add two full bidons when you set out on a long spin you'll add another 1.6kg (3.5 lbs)!

I wouldn't get too caught up with weight.

There are too many variables too for the manufacturers to give exact weights I reckon. Far better too to lose 3 lbs in body weight than pay the extra €€€'s to shave that weight off the bike!!

Mmmmyes and no. That 3lb in body weight doesn't need to be lost, but converted into muscle. Which is doable when you're young, less so as you age.

There aren't actually a lot of variables. Bikes are sold as standard, with a standard group of fittings (pedals, forks, handlebars, etc). All that's needed is a scale *for that standard bike* saying "Weight: XS = 9kg; S = 9.3kg; M = 9.8kg", or whatever the weights are.

By the logic of "too many variables", it wouldn't be honest for any manufacture to have a bike on its catalogues since you could change the wheels, pedals, forks, etc!

G1032

Qualitymark wrote: »

Mmmmyes and no. That 3lb in body weight doesn't need to be lost, but converted into muscle. Which is doable when you're young, less so as you age.

Tell me about it
Something I'll have to try to do over the winter!!

gordongekko

Insert joke about weight women and bikes.

Qualitymark

But back to my original question. Weight - whatever people feel about it - is a central question asked by most people buying a bike. The weight of the bike, that is. So why won't the makers say it out plain? It's not because of the variables - they only have to declare the weight for the standard bike as sold, and for each frame size. It seems to me to be a basic fact that should be stated. It's ludicrous for buyers to have to wander the shops with luggage scales.

Tenzor07

If you really want to know the weights of the Giant bicycle range, just go onto their Taiwanese site, gives all the weights there....

G1032

Qualitymark wrote: »

But back to my original question. Weight - whatever people feel about it - is a central question asked by most people buying a bike. The weight of the bike, that is. So why won't the makers say it out plain? It's not because of the variables - they only have to declare the weight for the standard bike as sold, and for each frame size. It seems to me to be a basic fact that should be stated. It's ludicrous for buyers to have to wander the shops with luggage scales.

Because when there is a 0.5kg difference in weights between models in the same range from different manufacturers people will be more likely to buy the lighter bike.
Trek might say a particular bike weighs 9kg but Giant will then come along and lost their equivalent bike as 8.5kg...... People going to go for the Giant
That's my guess anyway

Qualitymark

G1032 wrote: »

Because when there is a 0.5kg difference in weights between models in the same range from different manufacturers people will be more likely to buy the lighter bike.
Trek might say a particular bike weighs 9kg but Giant will then come along and lost their equivalent bike as 8.5kg...... People going to go for the Giant
That's my guess anyway

In that case it would be a big selling advantage? So why don't they…?

G1032

Qualitymark wrote: »

In that case it would be a big selling advantage? So why don't they…?

Possibly because there will always be a lighter bike than theirs on the market?

rollingscone

gordongekko wrote: »

Insert joke about weight women and bikes.

Women want lighter bikes because women's racing seems way more combative. Wah wah wah (but it does, super choppy at the front in the Ras na Mban). Hurhurhur (seriously though).

Qualitymark

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you really want to know the weights of the Giant bicycle range, just go onto their Taiwanese site, gives all the weights there....

Alight 2 is 27.2lb = 12kg. It already has polycarbonate mudguards and alloy carrier. Thrive 1 is … Damn, they foxed me; they have the ideograms for the factors expressed as graphics http://www.giantcyclingworld.com/web/bikes_view.php?id=acb7762a-7d46-4467-b96b-2692b396cf35

Put it through Google Translate; weight isn't there for the Thrive, as far as I can see, the swines.

Tenzor07

To me I would say that a commuter/lifestyle type bike buying customer is not that concerned about weight so maybe that's why it's hard to find published weights.

I mean, lash on mudguards, carriers/panniers, bell, lights, reflectors, puncture resistant tyres, frame mounted pumps, saddle bags, metal bottle cages and you have a bike that just put on a lot of weight...

And thusly a customer like yourself who may come in with a luggage scales and says "oh this 1kg is heavier than the website", even though you spec'd additional accessories yourself, then the bike shop is looking at an unhappy customer, and may have to appease them by giving a further discount, or at worst losing a sale and a customer...

Tenzor07

Qualitymark wrote: »

Put it through Google Translate; weight isn't there for the Thrive, as far as I can see, the swines.

They have weights for the more performance based models, which makes sense as someone willing to spend around €1500+++ on a road bike would be looking at other manufactures to compare similar spec bike weights..

e.g, TCR

weights quoted are for the XS or S models...

Qualitymark

Tenzor07 wrote: »

And thusly a customer like yourself who may come in with a luggage scales and says "oh this 1kg is heavier than the website", even though you spec'd additional accessories yourself.

No. All they need to say is "adding accessories will add weight".

Tenzor07 wrote: »

They have weights for the more performance based models, which makes sense as someone willing to spend around €1500+++ on a road bike would be looking at other manufactures to compare similar spec bike weights.

Actually, @Tenzor, no. The Alight has its weight quoted (12kg), and it comes with back carrier, mudguards and kickstand, and costs around €500. The Thrive 1, which comes with none of these and costs around €850, doesn't have its weight quoted. (Taking the trouble to look around online, a pain in the ass, I discover that it's 9KG.

Tenzor07

Qualitymark wrote: »

Actually, @Tenzor, no. The Alight has its weight quoted (12kg), and it comes with back carrier, mudguards and kickstand, and costs around €500. The Thrive 1, which comes with none of these and costs around €850, doesn't have its weight quoted. (Taking the trouble to look around online, a pain in the ass, I discover that it's 9KG.

Yea, I hear ya, just think it's a bit of a landmine for bike shops to give weights over the phone...

Eamonnator

I think that this thread shows why manufacturers are loath to quote weights.

Oryx

Is weight the only factor you should be considering? You could have a 2lb bike made outof rice paper but it wouldn't do too well.

What if there are variations from frame to frame? You weigh the bike in a shop and waah that it is not the 27.97654lbs as specified on the website? Nightmare for shops but people can be that picky.

Qualitymark

Of course weight isn't the only factor, but it is a factor, and important for many people, so why conceal it?

bp_me

There is a spreadsheet floating around in the ether with a list of all giant bike weights. I found it by accident recently.

fat bloke

Canyon do it, so there's no reason why other manufacturers can't, but there are certainly reasons why they won't.

nak

Weight isn't that important unless you're racing at a high level. I don't weigh the bikes I buy, how it rides is more important. Most mountain bikes are pretty heavy, but don't feel heavy when you're on them.

Luggage scales aren't calibrated anyway, so they won't give you an accurate reading.

Qualitymark

bp_me wrote: »

There is a spreadsheet floating around in the ether with a list of all giant bike weights. I found it by accident recently.

This? http://www.thejournal.ie/westmeath-ripped-up-archaeological-monument-road-wooden-2297728-Aug2015/ Not all Giant bike weights, though it has lots.

nak wrote: »

Weight isn't that important unless you're racing at a high level.

Or auld and creaky.

As for the luggage scales, they're what I can carry around.

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

This? http://www.thejournal.ie/westmeath-ripped-up-archaeological-monument-road-wooden-2297728-Aug2015/ Not all Giant bike weights, though it has lots.

Probably not the link you intended to post. :pac:

Qualitymark

Heh, no it wasn't! Hang on…

http://www.thebicycleescape.com/bicycleweights.html

bp_me

Qualitymark wrote: »

Heh, no it wasn't! Hang on…

http://www.thebicycleescape.com/bicycleweights.html

Nope. That's not it. It appears to be an official spreadsheet from giant.

Qualitymark

Oh, didn't see that at all.

bp_me

Qualitymark wrote: »

Oh, didn't see that at all.

http://komenda.3x9.net/Komenda%20extern/Giant-2015/Handb%C3%BCcher-technische%20Infos/Giant%20MY2015%20Bike%20Weights%20GEI%20-%20140905.xlsx

Orion

Qualitymark wrote: »

Mmmmyes and no. That 3lb in body weight doesn't need to be lost, but converted into muscle. Which is doable when you're young, less so as you age

Not necessarily so. I'm 45 and i've had a lot of people tell me recently I've lost weight. My scales disagrees. I've lost fat but converted to muscle from cycling.

Qualitymark

Orion wrote: »

Not necessarily so. I'm 45 and i've had a lot of people tell me recently I've lost weight. My scales disagrees. I've lost fat but converted to muscle from cycling.

45! Hahahahaha! The babby!

StevieGriff

Giant and Cannondale are the biggest culprits. Both brands that build even some of their high end bikes with cheap and heavy own brand wheels and finishing kit which puts them way over the weight of most other brands at the same price points. Giants €4000 Propel Advanced Pro 1 for example, own brand finishing kit and wheels.

rollingscone

Qualitymark wrote: »

45! Hahahahaha! The babby!

My dad is 70 and went from "used to ride a bike when he was a child" to "dedicated, century crushing [albeit rules flouting] roadie" in the space of about six months.

Qualitymark

rollingscone wrote: »

My dad is 70 and went from "used to ride a bike when he was a child" to "dedicated, century crushing [albeit rules flouting] roadie" in the space of about six months.

Indeed, and the Old Countess of Desmond reputedly died at 140 when she fell out of a cherry tree while harvesting fruit. But many people find a certain amount of muscle degeneration as the hair whitens.
Chapeau to the da, incidentally.

Borderfox

Qualitymark wrote: »

That's what I'm doing, bringing luggage scales around.

But those Liv models (which one did you get?) come with no carrier or mudguards (no mudguards! in Ireland!) so that's an extra €80 and an extra… "Ah, a pound or two," said the man in the shop.

It would be simple enough to have a weight scale for XS, S and M for the various Liv models.

It's a dash 3, really nice components and wheels. Straight handlebars, I put on mudguards the quick release type ( only cost €30)

Qualitymark

Borderfox wrote: »

It's a dash 3, really nice components and wheels. Straight handlebars, I put on mudguards the quick release type ( only cost €30)

Oooh, prettyyyy!

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

Indeed, and the Old Countess of Desmond reputedly died at 140 when she fell out of a cherry tree while harvesting fruit.

She really should have been wearing her cherry-harvesting helmet.

rollingscone

Lumen wrote: »

She really should have been wearing her cherry-harvesting helmet.

If she'd been wearing her fluorescent jumpsuit the ground might not have felt obligated to rush up and meet her.

Qualitymark

rollingscone wrote: »

If she'd been wearing her fluorescent jumpsuit the ground might not have felt obligated to rush up and meet her.

Or the full-length gown covered with a saffron dustcoat that was fash at the time in Ireland

harringtonp

fat bloke wrote: »

Canyon do it, so there's no reason why other manufacturers can't, but there are certainly reasons why they won't.

Canyon are one of the lightest around (the lightest I have come across) in terms of bang for your buck.