The Labour Party, top heavy?

For Reals

As a long time supporter of the Labour Party I've drifted away over the last decade or so. I feel I'm done with them. I was never a staunch politico in the 'my party and that's that' lunatic sense, I've drifted from time to time, but they would have been generally a go to of mine.

I genuinely believe those at party HQ should be asked to resign from the party, they have led from the top down for decades to the disenchantment and bewilderment of both party members and long time listeners, first time callers.

Generally disappointing morally and barely left of centre, they have filled Labour HQ with strategy men/women, rather than retaining any political ethos. It's like Labour is the flavour of their soup and they'll change the recipe if it will bring them power. I know HQ, the unelected puppet masters of the party, are not predominately working class, not that that should be a prerequisite, but these people only set foot in a working class suburb to foist newly graduated blow-ins to vacant seats or to push their latest darling in the faces of many working class people they really know nothing about except some sociology book they read on the topic back in their Uni days.

They should have remained in opposition. They should operate more democratically. They should cut out nepotism and fill HQ with democratically elected or appointed staff from the ground.
Would love to hear from Labour folk on this, Thoughts?

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

Would love to hear from Labour folk on this, Thoughts?

Every labour person on boards will recite the same line:
Long time voter.... never again...

I hear what you mean regarding the inner party...
The little I know of the people is that it is very middle class, liberal & civil service-ish.

Not that thats a bad thing in itself, its just an observation.

As an aside, I find the disenchantment of labour voters amusing.
The came to power in 2011 inheriting an €18bn overall budget deficit..... thats worth repeating... €18 billion.
Primary deficit was €12bn.
Bond rates at the time were 8%
Borrowing just to make it through the year cost over a billion alone in interest.

So the goverment raised revenue & cut taxes.

There seems to be a vibe that doing the right thing in fixing this was a betrayal.... its worth asking, What did you expect?
Answers cannot include cop-out cliche: "most vulnerable"

Slydice

but sure, look at:
- the rising numbers of rough sleepers
- the rising numbers of rough sleeper children
- the rising numbers of not rough sleeper Homeless (whole families chucked into single Hotel rooms)
- the rising numbers of not rough sleeper Homeless children
- the rising employment numbers they used jobsbridge to massage
- the huge number of young people who left the country
- how well they back up the biggest right wing party in the country
- how well they attack any and all left wing opposition whether a party or independent
- how desperately high rent prices are going
- how ****ing stupidly our house prices are rising
- how our central bank has been criticised for trying level out the amount of mortgage debt people can go into (not even reduce it)

How could you not love your party which has been in power with the only other two parties which were in power over the years?

Anyway, sure vote in the next election and see how you get on.

Be sure to remember we vote them in. They don't magically pull themselves out of a hat.

[BC: C|S|CR|UR|DU]

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Every labour person on boards will recite the same line:
Long time voter.... never again...

I hear what you mean regarding the inner party...
The little I know of the people is that it is very middle class, liberal & civil service-ish.

Not that thats a bad thing in itself, its just an observation.

As an aside, I find the disenchantment of labour voters amusing.
The came to power in 2011 inheriting an €18bn overall budget deficit..... thats worth repeating... €18 billion.
Primary deficit was €12bn.
Bond rates at the time were 8%
Borrowing just to make it through the year cost over a billion alone in interest.

So the goverment raised revenue & cut taxes.

There seems to be a vibe that doing the right thing in fixing this was a betrayal.... its worth asking, What did you expect?
Answers cannot include cop-out cliche: "most vulnerable"

While I believe there were more positive ways to tackle the financial ****e storm, invest in national projects, get people working etc. My issue with Labour is their seeming detachment from the working class. I would suggest people were glad to have a supposed caretaker for the common man in bed with shysters such as FG. They turned over belly up, for a tickle off Enda during the Reilly, clinic debacle. They seem to take a back seat regarding any untoward NAMA dealings and on the joke that is the arrest of the protesters, Joan`s only quote of note is regarding their phones. All disappointing.
My belief is all this stems from a room of middle to upper middle class unelected academics strategising about things they don`t have to deal with, such as being working poor, long term unemployed etc.

Slydice wrote: »

but sure, look at:
- the rising numbers of rough sleepers
- the rising numbers of rough sleeper children
- the rising numbers of not rough sleeper Homeless (whole families chucked into single Hotel rooms)
......u not love your party which has been in power with the only other two parties which were in power over the years?

Anyway, sure vote in the next election and see how you get on.

Be sure to remember we vote them in. They don't magically pull themselves out of a hat.

[BC: C|S|CR|UR|DU]

To be fair I also voted Fine Gael

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

While I believe there were more positive ways to tackle the financial ****e storm, invest in national projects, get people working etc.

There was no painless cuddly way to make a €12bn deficit disappear.
Sadly capital investment was sacrificed on the altar of SIPTU, but that's what the left wanted, so they got it.

My issue with Labour is their seeming detachment from the working class.

Indeed, the working man is more likely to vote FG than Labour.

Godge

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There was no painless cuddly way to make a €12bn deficit disappear.
.

There are people who thought there was a painless cuddly way to make the deficit disappear. They feel betrayed but they weren't betrayed by Labour or Fine Gael, they were betrayed by their naivety. They are all over boards, crying and whinging about the current government and believing the charlatans of the AAA and SF.

IrishProd

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There seems to be a vibe that doing the right thing in fixing this was a betrayal.... its worth asking, What did you expect?

Regarding the following, was Labour only doing the right thing in fixing this?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/homeless-charity-hits-back-at-criticism-from-labour-td-1.2326827

http://www.thejournal.ie/the-6-ministers-whose-special-advisers-breach-the-e92k-salary-cap-514381-Jul2012/

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/social-media-reacts-angrily-to-joan-burton-expensive-phones-comment-290618.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/politicians-will-get-pay-hikes-along-with-public-sector-31173772.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0812/720872-joan-burton-jobstown/

http://www.thejournal.ie/students-brand-government-liars-over-tuition-fee-promises-268414-Nov2011/

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/crude-alert-the-facts-behind-irish-oil-and-gas-exploration-210841.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/labour-abandoned-not-only-roisin-but-its-core-values-and-voters-30374018.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/young-people-unemployment-1721255-Oct2014/

BoJack Horseman

Read the above posts.

You can't make a €12bn deficit disappear without crapping on a lot of state dependents.
It's frankly naive to think you can reduce public expenditure without it hurting anyone, no rational adult should be suckered into believing it.

And It cannot be objectively argued that ending this deficit was the wrong decision.

Most people prefer to pay as little tax as possible.... Unnecessary debt is just a tax rise deferred till tomorrow & compounded by interest.

For Reals

Godge wrote: »

There are people who thought there was a painless cuddly way to make the deficit disappear. They feel betrayed but they weren't betrayed by Labour or Fine Gael, they were betrayed by their naivety. They are all over boards, crying and whinging about the current government and believing the charlatans of the AAA and SF.

I supported Fine Gael because I thought they were the best option, so keep your FG fan boy tripe for another thread please it's not required here, go off and rant about shinners and Paul Murphy some wheres else

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Read the above posts.

You can't make a €12bn deficit disappear without crapping on a lot of state dependents.
It's frankly naive to think you can reduce public expenditure without it hurting anyone, no rational adult should be suckered into believing it.

And It cannot be objectively argued that ending this deficit was the wrong decision.

Most people prefer to pay as little tax as possible.... Unnecessary debt is just a tax rise deferred till tomorrow & compounded by interest.

Tell that to he who shall not be named for **** sake. Who are you codding? It's a level field people want and if you mention Godge's money tree I might ****.

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

It's a level field people want

No it's not!

Don't you understand the point of party politics?

People vote for parties that best speak to their sectional interests!

Eg:
Unions back Labour.
The result: PS pay bill is cut by just 15% with no desperately needed compulsory redundancy & little genuine reform.... & a promise of rebounded pay... absolute nuts.

The elderly back FG/FF
The result: Despite pensions being only 50% funded from social taxes & the states unfunded mandate exceeding an incredible €400bn, State pensions are untouched & tumbles to oblivion.

My interests are not yours, neither of our interests are that of my old gran..

We don't want the same, & that's democracy.

I didn't want the welfare cuts to disproportionately affect the young, or for capital expenditure to be cut by a stupid 61%...... but we got it cos it was politically acceptable in general & acceptable to the union lobby.

Realpolitik.

And none of this counters the absolute necessity that was closing the deficit.

Dob74

Couldn't agree more. Knocking on doors at the last election most labour voters did not want to go into coalition with Fg. The local TD didn't want to know. She was eyeing up jobs for herself.
The likes of Pat Rabitte who is more Fine Gael than fine gael themselves is ruining the party. There is no point being in government to prop up the likes of Noonan, Hogan, Shatter and Co. Nearly all the major mistakes of this government have been made by fg ministers.
Labour must never go into coalition with a conservative party. A waste of time.
As soon as we went government is was only going to go one way.

BoJack Horseman

Dob74 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Knocking on doors at the last election most labour voters did not want to go into coalition with Fg. The local TD didn't want to know. She was eyeing up jobs for herself.
The likes of Pat Rabitte who is more Fine Gael than fine gael themselves is ruining the party. There is no point being in government to prop up the likes of Noonan, Hogan, Shatter and Co. Nearly all the major mistakes of this government have been made by fg ministers.
Labour must never go into coalition with a conservative party. A waste of time.
As soon as we went government is was only going to go one way.

So why bother existing then?

You know your party will never be big enough to lead a government..... Your party only has the choice of 2 x centre-right coalition partners.
And that's always been the case.

I suppose it goes back to naivity & disenchantment of the Labour voter, its very odd.

If you want your platform to be enacted, if you want your party to effect change, you have to govern..... Therefore, you have to win!

There is absolutely no nobility in sniping from opposition just to maintain ideological purity.

That's a very common trap the left sets for itself

Dob74

BoJack Horseman wrote:

I suppose it goes back to naivity & disenchantment of the Labour voter, its very odd.

BoJack Horseman wrote:

You know your party will never be big enough to lead a government..... Your party only has the choice of 2 x centre-right coalition partners. And that's always been the case.

BoJack Horseman wrote:

So why bother existing then?

Yeah right. If you think politics is going to look the same for the next century as it has for the last then good luck. From getting about 90% of the vote in the 80s the conservative block is down to 50%.

Fg and FF voters like there political beleaves are in the past. SF will be the largest party because they have a strategy. Labour are in trouble because they where to desperate to go into power with whoever they could.
Hopefully there will be a right left divide in Irish politics. We need to grow into a proper democracy.

Seth Brundle

Dob74 wrote: »

SF will be the largest party because they have a strategy.

Bluffing isn't a strategy!
Their economic policies are unworkable to the point that they cannot cost them.
Their leader has a black cloud following him.
Most importantly, SF still cannot boost their popularity at a time when FG and Lab are creating one political clusterfeck after another. People would rather go with the loony independents and even FF than go with Gerry and his henchmen.

Dob74 wrote: »

Labour are in trouble because they where to desperate to go into power with whoever they could.

Can you name one of our current parties that isn't desperate for power?
I don't believe there are any.
If there is one, are they not ambitious to get into government?

IrishProd

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You can't make a €12bn deficit disappear without crapping on a lot of state dependents.
It's frankly naive to think you can reduce public expenditure without it hurting anyone, no rational adult should be suckered into believing it.

If that is the case:

What is the reasoning for Labour breaching the salary cap for their own advisors?

BoJack Horseman

IrishProd wrote: »

What is the reasoning for Labour breaching the salary cap for their own advisors?

*shrugs shoulders*

Dunno friend.
You should probably ask the Labour party themselves.

Dob74

kbannon wrote:

Can you name one of our current parties that isn't desperate for power? I don't believe there are any. If there is one, are they not ambitious to get into government?

Sinn Fein. They want to increase there vote. Not jump at chance to go into coalition at any price.
Military discipline helps.

Seth Brundle

Dob74 wrote: »

Sinn Fein. They want to increase there vote. Not jump at chance to go into coalition at any price.
Military discipline helps.

And how are they going to do that given my point:

kbannon wrote: »

Most importantly, SF still cannot boost their popularity at a time when FG and Lab are creating one political clusterfeck after another. People would rather go with the loony independents and even FF than go with Gerry and his henchmen.

rockatansky

kbannon wrote: »

And how are they going to do that given my point:

I'm not sure when the last opinion poll was carried out but I thought Sinn Fein were running at 18 - 21%? I would consider that a massive boost in Popularity given the Civil War mentality that still stifles Irish Politics. Many would have been traditional Labour Voters.

Seth Brundle

rockatansky wrote: »

I'm not sure when the last opinion poll was carried out but I thought Sinn Fein were running at 18 - 21%? I would consider that a massive boost in Popularity given the Civil War mentality that still stifles Irish Politics. Many would have been traditional Labour Voters.

They are unable to get anything higher though.
Despite everything, they are stuck with a core voterbase. No matter what goes on be it Fine Gael cronyism, Labour cronyism, Irish Water, whatever, people would rather choose Finna Fáil over SF.
Sinn Fein have a saturation point and can'rt see to get beyond it, despite Dob74's suggestion of some kind of strategic master plan!

rockatansky

kbannon wrote: »

They are unable to get anything higher though.

I heard this many times before when they were at 10, 12, 15%. They'd never go any higher. After the arrest of Gerry Adams in relation to the Jean McConville Inquiry, many were predicting the demise of Sinn Fein but it didn't happen.

kbannon wrote: »

No matter what goes on be it Fine Gael cronyism, Labour cronyism, Irish Water, whatever

The above what you have mentioned would be considered very pale in terms of what many accuse Sinn Fein of being responsible for.

kbannon wrote: »

people would rather choose Finna Fáil over SF.

Does this not still remain to be seen? The 2016 Elections are going to be very interesting.

kbannon wrote: »

Sinn Fein have a saturation point and can'rt see to get beyond it

How the next few weeks play will have a massive influence on this.

KingBrian2

The polls are incredible misleading independents top the rating yet they don't decide the outcome of the election.

Dob74

kbannon wrote:

And how are they going to do that given my point:

SF will be at 20% ish after the next election. With a ff fg government they will be the dominant force in opposition. Then they will move higher.
After the next election they will probably be the second largest party.
Conservatives will vote FG , social Democrats will vote sinn Fein.
Labour and FF will be left with the scraps off the table. Personally I would prefer a choice in governments. Not the usual conservative coalition we getting for the last few elections.

fly_agaric

Dob74 wrote: »

SF will be at 20% ish after the next election. With a ff fg government they will be the dominant force in opposition. Then they will move higher.
After the next election they will probably be the second largest party.
Conservatives will vote FG , social Democrats will vote sinn Fein.
Labour and FF will be left with the scraps off the table. Personally I would prefer a choice in governments. Not the usual conservative coalition we getting for the last few elections.

The FF/FG coalition (the dream team?:rolleyes:) would be my hope also.
My expectation however is that Labour will be almost wiped out (ruling out return of current govt.); and FF/FG are not ready to join in coalition like that.

There will however be a new ragbag of constituency-focussed independents ready to be bought out with goodies for their area. FF will not be big enough to make a govt. so we'll end up with FG propped up by independents. Should be the most right wing govt. that Ireland has had for a long time in any case & may not last too long.

expectationlost

For Reals wrote: »

As a long time supporter of the Labour Party I've drifted away over the last decade or so. I feel I'm done with them. I was never a staunch politico in the 'my party and that's that' lunatic sense, I've drifted from time to time, but they would have been generally a go to of mine.

I genuinely believe those at party HQ should be asked to resign from the party, they have led from the top down for decades to the disenchantment and bewilderment of both party members and long time listeners, first time callers.

Generally disappointing morally and barely left of centre, they have filled Labour HQ with strategy men/women, rather than retaining any political ethos. It's like Labour is the flavour of their soup and they'll change the recipe if it will bring them power. I know HQ, the unelected puppet masters of the party, are not predominately working class, not that that should be a prerequisite, but these people only set foot in a working class suburb to foist newly graduated blow-ins to vacant seats or to push their latest darling in the faces of many working class people they really know nothing about except some sociology book they read on the topic back in their Uni days.

They should have remained in opposition. They should operate more democratically. They should cut out nepotism and fill HQ with democratically elected or appointed staff from the ground.
Would love to hear from Labour folk on this, Thoughts?

I remember reading how some young labour tried to go the route of changing from the inside via the conference but their motions were blocked, some of them later left from the party can't find the details at the moment

Quin_Dub

Dob74 wrote: »

SF will be at 20% ish after the next election. With a ff fg government they will be the dominant force in opposition. Then they will move higher.
After the next election they will probably be the second largest party.
Conservatives will vote FG , social Democrats will vote sinn Fein.
Labour and FF will be left with the scraps off the table. Personally I would prefer a choice in governments. Not the usual conservative coalition we getting for the last few elections.

Don't see where SF could ever be consider "social democrat" really..

Agree that SF will likely be somewhere around 20% after the GE.

However , I don't expect an FF/FG government..So FF will be the largest opposition party and by some margin too - about 30% I reckon.

What we are likely to end up with is a minority FG/LAB + Others government.

A quick failure of that government would not be to the benefit of the opposition parties as I suspect that you'd see a shift back to the main parties if we had a 2nd election within a year for example.

FG and FF would be the biggest beneficiaries of a 2nd vote in my view as the vital "swing voters" would likely drift back to the 2 largest parties in an effort to deliver a stable government.

SF would need to effectively double their vote to be relevant and that's not going to happen that quickly (if ever).

For Reals

fly_agaric wrote: »

.....
There will however be a new ragbag of constituency-focussed independents ready to be bought out with goodies for their area.

Ragbag? Why? Also FF/FG never get members voted in based on local promises? Welcome to Ireland, you're obviously new here.

expectationlost wrote: »

I remember reading how some young labour tried to go the route of changing from the inside via the conference but their motions were blocked, some of them later left from the party can't find the details at the moment

Not aware of that, quite possible. I do know of graduates, ink still wet on their qualification, being parachuted into constituencies, they have a tenuous link to at best, to run for local council not even knowing the members of the local branches. It only serves to split the vote. I know one incidence were a FG candidate was preferred over the latest Labour 'blow-in'.

fly_agaric

For Reals wrote: »

Ragbag? Why? Also FF/FG never get members voted in based on local promises? Welcome to Ireland, you're obviously new here.

Not sure what you're arguing about here?
They will be a "ragbag" because each one will have their own personal hobby-horse ready to ride into the Dail (the local hospital, the local garda station, turfcutting, pylons, water fluoridation...whatever). The new govt. will be forced to feed and water these to buy the votes to shore up a majority.

With party "backbenchers" the govt. will just ignore pledges they made to their constituents that either inconvenient after the election (or plain mad). God knows they ignore the main points in their manifestos at national level so will have no problem ditching promises of candidates in a few constituencies. Most of these won't protest too much because they will want to get that promotion, or else just don't want to be forced out of the party.

For Reals

fly_agaric wrote: »

Not sure what you're arguing about here?
They will be a "ragbag" because each one will have their own personal hobby-horse ready to ride into the Dail (the local hospital, the local garda station, turfcutting, pylons, water fluoridation...whatever). The new govt. will be forced to feed and water these to buy the votes to shore up a majority.

Understood and I'm saying that what you are fearfully predicting has always been the case with FG and FF politicians. I don't see why it should be an issue that independents may act the same, like sticking with the cancerous devils we know might be preferable.
'Ragbag', sounds like 'not fit for service', again one could argue....

fly_agaric wrote: »

With party "backbenchers" the govt. will just ignore pledges they made to their constituents that either inconvenient after the election (or plain mad). God knows they ignore the main points in their manifestos at national level so will have no problem ditching promises of candidates in a few constituencies. Most of these won't protest too much because they will want to get that promotion, or else just don't want to be forced out of the party.

(See Fine Gael & Labour circa now)

Icepick wrote: »

The fate of the Labour party just shows how delusional socialist voters are. Labour actually achieved a lot.

They laid down on the Reilly clinics for fear they'd roll out of the Enda's bed. Without going into the myriad of cap tipping to Enda, there are ways and means of achieving things. A government would be hard pressed not to improve upon the last Fianna Fail one. People may not be dying on the streets, or dying on hospital trolleys and child poverty may not be on the rise and those who perpetrated the financial crises due to their own ineptitude and/or fraud may have been brought to justice and we may have seen an end to quangos and cronyism but...oh wait, ad infinitum.

Dob74

Quin_Dub wrote:

However , I don't expect an FF/FG government..So FF will be the largest opposition party and by some margin too - about 30% I reckon.

FF getting 30%. Not a chance. They'll be lucky to 1or2 Tds in Dublin

K-9

Dob74 wrote: »

FF getting 30%. Not a chance. They'll be lucky to 1or2 Tds in Dublin

They'll not get 30% in Dublin, yes, but they'll get that or more in their traditional constituencies which could be enough to turn 1 seat into 2 seats.

If they can get 24/25% they'll get a seat dividend from crossing the 22/23% threshold that starts delivering multiple seats in constituencies, jumping to 35 or 40 seats. This has to be their minimum target otherwise they'll become an rrelevance and into political oblivion.

SF could get that 22/23% but I'm not sure if it will start delivering that many additional seats, they maybe have 4 or 5 constituencies they can get second seats.

That's why I think it will be very difficult to form the next Government, FF and Labour will be in rebuilding mode and SF and FG look unlikely bedfellows. Ff/FG would be the most stable number wise but, a bit like Labour last time, going into Government would be the wrong thing politically for FF.

Galloglass

Let Labour simply die. LetTweedeldee and Dum finally come together and let real politics "evolve" in Ireland afterwards. LABOUR the Party which NEVER looses an argument with it's conscience.RIP

Hannibal

Labour need to face the real possibility that their leader might not be getting re-elected.
In the last general Labour got 29% in Dublin West.
The by election after Lenihans death 24.27%.
In last years local with the combined Castleknock and Mulhuddart wards that make up nearly all the constituency they got 7.4%.
In the by-election after Nulty left they got 5.2%.

This is a total collapse in Dublin West and it will not return for the election. Varadkar, Donnelly (SF) and Coppinger (SP) will all get in probably followed by the FF candidate. The reality facing Labour is that the next Dail they will be without Burton, Alan Kelly, Alex White and the retiring Rabbitte, Gilmore and Quinn.

Depending on how much of a personal he has then Brendan Howlin could be the only main player in Labour left standing. Even then Labour only took two of the thirty four seats in last years locals in Wexford and he's up against it. Sinn Fein in particular are going to take the most advantage and wipe out Labour in Dublin and Cork. FF and Independents will pick up the spoils.

The_Captain

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Every labour person on boards will recite the same line:
Long time voter.... never again...

I hear what you mean regarding the inner party...
The little I know of the people is that it is very middle class, liberal & civil service-ish.

Not that thats a bad thing in itself, its just an observation.

As an aside, I find the disenchantment of labour voters amusing.
The came to power in 2011 inheriting an €18bn overall budget deficit..... thats worth repeating... €18 billion.
Primary deficit was €12bn.
Bond rates at the time were 8%
Borrowing just to make it through the year cost over a billion alone in interest.

So the goverment raised revenue & cut taxes.

There seems to be a vibe that doing the right thing in fixing this was a betrayal.... its worth asking, What did you expect?
Answers cannot include cop-out cliche: "most vulnerable"

Their election promises specifically mentioned opposing water taxes and cuts to childrens allowance.

I stood in front of Gilmore when he made a speech stating that they wouldn't introduce college fees, they later openly admitted this was a lie to get votes.

They introduced and still stand behind jobbridge and in my sector I see it being abused by a host of companies to take on short term fully-qualified staff for no wages.

Their own party members have resigned over the sheer indifference Labour have towards social reform.

They claimed to be pro-choice but then opposed Clare Daly's proposals because they wouldn't be able to take credit for them.

Now abortion is a red line issue for Labour before they'll form a government

They had a hard campaign promise not to increase wine prices. Ignored, forgotten, they support Varadkars minimum pricing prosposals now.

Their cuts to SNAs was appalling.

Labour were voted in primarily by lower-middle class Dubliners, but they were quite happy to sit there quietly while FG pushed through a property tax which meant someone in a negative equity dogbox in Dublin pays more than someone earning €100,000+ living in a mansion in Mayo.

After collecting a surplus from the LPT, labour sat back while FG cut funding to services in Dublin with the idea that the surplus would be able to fund them, preventing the cost of the LPT being reduced in Dublin.

They've already hitched their wagon to Fine Gael's star, so it leaves no reason to vote for them. They've become little more than a subsidiary of Fine Gael, and there's no reason to vote for them instead of Fine Gael in the next election

Seth Brundle

The_Captain wrote: »

Their election promises specifically mentioned opposing water taxes and cuts to childrens allowance.

Remember that they are a junior coalition partner. They would have sweet FA involvement in many of the policies!

The_Captain wrote: »

Labour were voted in primarily by lower-middle class Dubliners,

source?

The_Captain wrote: »

but they were quite happy to sit there quietly while FG pushed through a property tax which meant someone in a negative equity dogbox in Dublin pays more than someone earning €100,000+ living in a mansion in Mayo.

I disagree with the valuation methodology of the property tax and believe that it should be based on square metres. However, in terms of the negative equity people, are you suggesting that they be exempted from this tax because of their poor life decisions?

Dob74

Hannibal wrote:

Labour need to face the real possibility that their leader might not be getting re-elected. In the last general Labour got 29% in Dublin West. The by election after Lenihans death 24.27%. In last years local with the combined Castleknock and Mulhuddart wards that make up nearly all the constituency they got 7.4%. In the by-election after Nulty left they got 5.2%.

I would say that's more to do with the candidate. Burton is not guaranteed a seat but she is still likely to win