Issue with Bar Tips

LegacyUser

Hi-Ho
I'm soon to be working at an up-and-coming festival for bar work. Here's the gist of it: It's 10-14 hours (not specified) on your feet, minimum wage. Bring your own tents and snacks, lunch and dinner is provided, and there is onsite showers.
I don't really have any issues with any of this (although this job isn't really min wage work) but here's the catch:

All tips will given to a local "charity"

I was kinda gobsmacked when I saw this. When I lived in America for a bit, tips were considered employee property and taking and giving it to a "charity" would be considered theft.

I know if tip jars are going to be given out, then customers will give tips with the knowledge that it's going to the guy behind the bar, and not into some sort of corporations coffers. I will lose my sh*t if we're encourage to work for the tips, and I will be actively encouraging people to NOT tip us, my job be damned.

I mentioned this to the ma, who was also pretty gobsmacked. She works in the Citizens Information, so I was pretty surprised to see her reaction. She's looking into the actual legality of this, so I thought I might post here in the meantime.

What do y'all think?

thegreatgonzo

Do people generally tip bar staff in concerts and festivals though?

Stheno

Will the "tip jars" be labelled "tips" or "In aid of local charity x"?

Stheno

Actually I found this link

http://www.unionconnect.ie/rights/7/

Appears you are not automatically entitled to keep tips.

I work in a restaurant and I have been told I am not allowed to keep my tips, is this legal? -

Employments in the services sector operate a range of different policies with regard to the treatment of tips. Some divide tips equally between staff whilst others consider tips as the property of the business.

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And from Citizens Information http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/young_people_at_work/rights_of_young_workers.html

If you are working in a job where staff are given tips/gratuities by customers (i.e, restaurants, bars, etc.) there is nothing in law to state you are automatically entitled to these tips. However, the law does not require you to hand these tips to your employer either. Instead, it all depends on the custom and practice in your workplace.

Mourinho

Stheno wrote: »

Will the "tip jars" be labelled "tips" or "In aid of local charity x"?

If that's the case you'd think it would just be a proper donations jar. More like the sneaky fcukers running it will pocket the tips.

I'd be bloody raging of I was (don't believe in tips in the likes of Ireland) to tip a waiter and find out it was then taken and sent off to a "charity"

Stheno

Mourinho wrote: »

If that's the case you'd think it would just be a proper donations jar. More like the sneaky fcukers running it will pocket the tips.

I'd be bloody raging of I was (don't believe in tips in the likes of Ireland) to tip a waiter and find out it was then taken and sent off to a "charity"

That's why if I'm in a new place where I'll be tipping I ask how they are dealt with

Mrs OBumble

Minimum wage in Ireland is enough to live on (just). In the US it's not, service workers need tips for basic survival.

If you don't like the T&C's of the job, then don't do it, I'm sure someone else will be grateful for the work.

LegacyUser

thegreatgonzo wrote:

Do people generally tip bar staff in concerts and festivals though?

Yes actually. You'd notice this by first being at a festival and secondly by noticing the big tip cups we leave on the counter. I've been working at event staffing for 5 years and while it's not expected, it's immensely appreciated as we're working 11-13 hours on our feet. Unlike America, where you'd be called out on by giving sh*t tips, here any tips will do as it adds up to 30-40 euro ontop of the measly wage.

Stheno wrote:

Will the "tip jars" be labelled "tips" or "In aid of local charity x"?

I wouldn't have a problem with this. Thing is I dont even know the local charity. I dont even know if there will be tip jars handed out, and I dont know if we're going to be made to do a song and dance for the tips. It's the whole smoke and daggers thing that they've got going here that has been raging. Whatever the situation, it's the customer who's giving money in honest belief that they're helping the bartender, only for it to go to complete opposite person. Even if it is going to a charity, it's been shown in Ireland as of late at least that a good chunk of charities are corrupt as is.

Stheno wrote:

..info..

This is very helpful thank you

Mrs OBumble wrote:

Minimum wage in Ireland is enough to live on (just). In the US it's not, service workers need tips for basic survival.

You speak like this is a good thing. It's not. Far from it.

If you don't like the T&C's of the job, then don't do it, I'm sure someone else will be grateful for the work.

Spoken like a true capitalist. That someone else wouldn't be you by any chance, no? You speak like someone who's very cozy. Unlike me and the rest of the people who were in their majority Brazilians at that interview.

JCX BXC

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you don't like the T&C's of the job, then don't do it, I'm sure someone else will be grateful for the work.

Isn't that always the easy way out?
Just because there is a shortage of work doesn't mean we should allow malpractice, do you not after?

lazeedaisy

You cannot compare USA to here as has been said, anyone who has worked in a restaurant/bar Statesside know it's part of the job, as the wages are dire, minimum wage here is different.

As for the money going to charity, would need to know more about the festival before we claim it's Malpractice!

JCX BXC

If the jar is labeled tips, then it is malpractice.

SteM

Carnacalla wrote: »

Isn't that always the easy way out?
Just because there is a shortage of work doesn't mean we should allow malpractice, do you not after?

But where's the malpractice? People on this thread seem convinced that the tips will be taken by the organisers but no one knows for sure.

SteM

Carnacalla wrote: »

If the jar is labeled tips, then it is malpractice.

You don't know how the jars will be labled.

JCX BXC

SteM wrote: »

But where's the malpractice? People on this thread seem convinced that the tips will be taken by the organisers but no one knows for sure.

If the jars are labeled tips (I haven't a clue if they are) and the money isn't given to the employees then it is malpractice. I don't care if its given to charity, the management or Kim Jong Un, its misleading and malpractice.

Wabbit Ears

I tip with the intention that the money is going, at least in part, to the waiting staff. I donate to charities I care for and I also actively avoid giving to certain charities where I disagree with their organisation and workings. So, as a customer, it would be extremely annoyed to find that tips were being stolen (from my view its theft) from the intended recipient to a random other group.

cerastes

I dont like the idea of tipping in the first place,even in tipping I even less like tip jars. As I dont eat out or do much that would require tipping its not really something that comes up on my radar, but in the cases where I do, I would tip if the service has even been ok, that said, I'm tipping the waiting staff, if I thought a charity who I dont know who they are or what they support, where I may disagree with them in the first place or object to how they carry out their business then I may not be happy for my money to go to them.
For tips to be taken and simply given to them? amounts to theft in my eyes, at best its deception, of the person tipping.
tbh this further persuades me that tipping is bad unless it goes direct to the person that you think deserves it.
In situations where I tip, I give to the person direct, although I have dropped coins into tip jars, its usually a lot less than if I gave to an individual themselves. Id rather they got what I consider a reasonable percent, then for them to have to share that out among others who did nothing, for it to be decided upon by management? and given to a charity? Are the tip jars labelled with this? is it an official business policy or is someone getting some benefit or even kudos from money going to a charity? does it even go to the charity or is there some further element of a scam that Im not seeing here? ie partner/relative/friend involved in the charity somehow?

Im back to no tips

Youngblood.III

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

then don't do it, I'm sure someone else will be grateful for the work.

Comments like this should be banned, don't you think the person already knows this but may need to accept the work...these posts come across as snotty.
People who post here, generally come for a bit of advice, because they're looking for something more than..
"Leave your job"
"Get another job"
"Someone will be grateful for your job"

Irish_Elect_Eng

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Comments like this should be banned, don't you think the person already knows this but may need to accept the work...these posts come across as snotty.
People who post here, generally come for a bit of advice, because they're looking for something more than..
"Leave your job"
"Get another job"
"Someone will be grateful for your job"

I take your point.

But there are many questions asked here that also fall under the category where the appropriate response is that "it comes with the job" or "that's just life", "You might be in the wrong job" etc.

In response to the OP.

There could be practical reasons why it is more appropriate or practical for the festival organisers, or his employers to simply put the charity option in place. \

For example:

• It may be costly to collect / calculate / pay the tips in an appropriate fair and timely manner.
• It may be that they have security concerns.
• Perhaps the tip thing went tits-up during the last festival and caused issues.
• Perhaps the festival has a partner charity and the tip/donation thing was their idea.
• Etc

And many more all much more likely than any Malpractice/Nefarious Plan by Big Business /

Without more detail it is impossible to judge.

Wabbit Ears

Id say its a do-gooder thinking they are being wonderful by donating other peoples money.

JCX BXC

Not really, if the jar is labeled tips (If), and the money goes to charity, that's misleading.

Youngblood.III

Ask them to match the donation from the tips...see how it works when it's from their pocket.

Stheno

Carnacalla wrote: »

Not really, if the jar is labeled tips (If), and the money goes to charity, that's misleading.

It's not though under Irish legislation businesses are free to do what they wish with tips that are collected, as I've posted. Staff are not automatically entitled to them.

Mrs OBumble

Carnacalla wrote: »

If the jars are labeled tips (I haven't a clue if they are) and the money isn't given to the employees then it is malpractice. I don't care if its given to charity, the management or Kim Jong Un, its misleading and malpractice.

Malpractice? I think you need to try googling to find out what that word means.

Arguably allowing staff to accept bribes from customers is just plain wrong. And that what lots of tips really are: flick the barman an extra tenner early on so he doesn't get troublesome later in the night when we've had enough but still want more.

It's also really unfair to the other staff (security, cellar-workers, cleaners) who contribute to making a night good, but who don't get tips because they're not serving directly.

aunt aggie

I have worked in service industry in Ireland and I know how contentious tips are. Some are split evenly between staff, some go towards staff nights out even though not everyone on staff drinks or can make it on the night and some just end up with whoever clears the table first!

I have tipped a bartender once in the past two years. I literally said keep the change for yourself (and it was a sizeable tip, because this girl was amazing) and she put it straight into her pocket. If someone goes above and beyond for you, then you would hand them the money rather than putting it into an anonymous jar. Yes it might see unfair to bouncers and glass collectors but there usually isn't a coherent tipping system in Irish bars and restaurants. However if there was a jar on the counter for a charity I really supported, I would pop some money in regardless of service, because that's an entirely different situation.

OP is there any rules about how to handle tips given directly to staff rather than placed in "tip" jar??

thegreatgonzo

RattleMeBones wrote: »

Yes actually. You'd notice this by first being at a festival and secondly by noticing the big tip cups we leave on the counter.

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No need to get snotty. I've been to plenty of festivals. And I've also worked behind a busy bar at sports events. I haven't noticed these big tip cups you mention.