Nephew - Seen using drugs? Court summons?

older man than before

Hello,

I want to state firstly that I'm not looking for Legal advice.

I have a nephew who ver the last few months has developed into a bit of a tearaway.
He's always had his difficulties (quiet, socially awkward, anxiety and depression) but this is the worst he's been. His mother and father broke up which hit him hard and his mother is in hospital now battling cancer as well.

We, his family, feel that because of these events he's after getting involved with a gang of local youths / young men who don't seem to be too nice. He's admitted, almost bragged about his smoking of cannabis and he now has admitted to using cocaïne as well.

Last weekend he was walking home, late one night / early morning with a gang of his "friends" and he said that he was openly using cocaïne in public. He said that a Garda car drove by them and he may of been seen using. He said the guards never stopped them.

My concern though is, if his story is true, is that he may recieve a summons to be appear in court over being in possesion of drugs. He wasn't stopped and searched but my worry is that a Guard may not need to do that and the fact are that most of his "friends" are known to the guards and already have records? Could they just observe from a distance and still proceed to charge him / summons him? Or would he have to be stopped and searched etc etc?


Sorry for the long rambling post. I'm just nervous for him and if he was to fall down that route he may be lost that way for goo

In laymans terms, hypotheticaly do you need to be stopped and searched to be summonsed to court for possesion of drugs?

Or could you just be given a summons from a Guard who observed you being up to no good?

He's 19 by the way.

Many thanks.

GerB40

In court proof is needed for any sort of conviction. Heresay doesn't count. He could've taken cocaine off the Garda's knee but unless there was an arrest then it doesn't matter. One thing though, if he was identified by a member of an Gardaí he will be sought out in future. In other words, he can expect to be searched. Legally he's not in any trouble but if the Gardaí know him to be a drug user they will probably give him some hassle.

MarkAnthony

GerB40 wrote: »

In court proof is needed for any sort of conviction. Heresay doesn't count. He could've taken cocaine off the Garda's knee but unless there was an arrest then it doesn't matter. One thing though, if he was identified by a member of an Gardaí he will be sought out in future. In other words, he can expect to be searched. Legally he's not in any trouble but if the Gardaí know him to be a drug user they will probably give him some hassle.

While it's highly unlikely that there would be any follow up if the guards didn't stop him, there doesn't need to be an arrest and sworn testomy of a witness (in this case the guard) convicts people every day in the courts. Hearsay would be the guards mate Fred saying that Garda Pat saw the lad etc. etc.

GerB40

MarkAnthony wrote: »

While it's highly unlikely that there would be any follow up if the guards didn't stop him, there doesn't need to be an arrest and sworn testomy of a witness (in this case the guard) convicts people every day in the courts. Hearsay would be the guards mate Fred saying that Garda Pat saw the lad etc. etc.

I was referring to this case alone. A Garda seeing a young man taking drugs and not acting on it.. If the Garda brings it up with a fellow Garda or a superior it becomes heresay and until a conviction is made it will stay as such.

Pat Mustard

older man than before wrote: »

My concern though is, if his story is true, is that he may recieve a summons to be appear in court over being in possesion of drugs. He wasn't stopped and searched but my worry is that a Guard may not need to do that and the fact are that most of his "friends" are known to the guards and already have records? Could they just observe from a distance and still proceed to charge him / summons him? Or would he have to be stopped and searched etc etc?

In the scenario you outllined, if the Gardai prosecuted somebody, he would only have evidence from observation at a distance, and nothing else.

Therefore, he would not have evidence that a controlled substance was used, since he wouldn't even have searched the parties and seized the drugs to send for analysis.

Also, he might not be very convincing in trying to convince a judge that he recalled the accused from a distance, without approaching to verify identity. There is also the issue of unreliability of identification evidence.

Gardai are trained to obtain evidence. If they consider investigating, they tend to approach and see what evidence is available rather than hanging back doing nothing.

Another reason that they would gather evidence is that they would look foolish prosecuting people on the basis of little or no evidence of a crime.

The judge might ask: "Where's your evidence, guard?", and there might be an awkward silence. I don't think that most guards would volunteer to jump on a hand grenade like that.

Pat Mustard

GerB40 wrote: »

I was referring to this case alone. A Garda seeing a young man taking drugs and not acting on it.. If the Garda brings it up with a fellow Garda or a superior it becomes heresay and until a conviction is made it will stay as such.

No, that is not correct.

If a Garda gives evidence of a crime, that is not hearsay. A person can give evidence of what they saw.

Hearsay arises when somebody gives evidence of another person's statement. So if I say that Mary said "I saw Tommy shoot JR", then that is hearsay. However, if Mary says "I saw Tommy shoot JR", then that is not hearsay.

GerB40

Pat Mustard wrote: »

No, that is not correct.

If a Garda gives evidence of a crime, that is not hearsay. A person can give evidence of what they saw.

Hearsay arises when somebody gives evidence of another person's statement. So if I say that Mary said "I saw Tommy shoot JR", then that is hearsay. However, if Mary says "I saw Tommy shoot JR", then that is not hearsay.

I stand corrected.

ballyargus

Well technically speaking he could have been snorting *anything*. So in terms of evidence the only way that I could see any kind of charge being drummed up would be along the lines of the analogue act.

Which is ridiculously unlikely

Pat Mustard

ballyargus wrote: »

Well technically speaking he could have been snorting *anything*. So in terms of evidence the only way that I could see any kind of charge being drummed up would be along the lines of the analogue act.

The US Federal Analogue Act does not have force of law in this country, if that's what you mean.

ballyargus

Pat Mustard wrote: »

The US Federal Analogue Act does not have force of law in this country, if that's what you mean.

We, like the UK, have something very similar in place.

Pro Hoc Vice

ballyargus wrote: »

Well technically speaking he could have been snorting *anything*. So in terms of evidence the only way that I could see any kind of charge being drummed up would be along the lines of the analogue act.

Which is ridiculously unlikely

And where is the evidence that what he was snorting is covered by any act. It could be talc or any legal substance. In any jurisdiction I can think of evidence of what the substance is must be produced.

older man than before

Hello, OP here again.

Thank you all so much for the replies. They truly are appreciated.

Would I be right in saying that he's got away with it this time? And that he won't have a day out in court?

The guards have to carry out a stop and search, seize the substance and send it to be analysed etc in order for a summons to be issued / raised?

Peregrinus

That's about it, yes. This incident will not in itself give rise to a prosecution.

But . . .

It quite possibly means that he's now on their radar. He'll get more notice, more attention, possibly more hassle. And in that climate there's a much greater likelihood that some other incident will occur which could give rise to a prosecution.

I'm sorry about what your nephew is going through, and what you and the rest of the family must also be going through on his behalf. Obviously, this isn't primarily a legal problem. I hope you are able to get some support and some help with the personal and family issues.

older man than before

Peregrinus wrote: »

That's about it, yes. This incident will not in itself give rise to a prosecution.

But . . .

It quite possibly means that he's now on their radar. He'll get more notice, more attention, possibly more hassle. And in that climate there's a much greater likelihood that some other incident will occur which could give rise to a prosecution.

I'm sorry about what your nephew is going through, and what you and the rest of the family must also be going through on his behalf. Obviously, this isn't primarily a legal problem. I hope you are able to get some support and some help with the personal and family issues.

Thank you Peregrinus, that had helped calm the nerves a little.

Your absolutely right about him being on their radar though. Hopefully we can get through to him.

Thanks to all for their input and their help. I appreciate you talking the time out to reply. Warmest regards.

Taboola

What about going to your local station and asking them to have a word with him? It might deter him.

Pat Mustard

Taboola wrote: »

What about going to your local station and asking them to have a word with him? It might deter him.

I would definitely not do this, in a million years.

Taboola

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I would definitely not do this, in a million years.

Fair enough. It was just a suggestion.

ballyargus

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I would definitely not do this, in a million years.

+1000

Do not do this.

Zambia

older man than before wrote: »

Hello,

I want to state firstly that I'm not looking for Legal advice.

I have a nephew who ver the last few months has developed into a bit of a tearaway.
He's always had his difficulties (quiet, socially awkward, anxiety and depression) but this is the worst he's been. His mother and father broke up which hit him hard and his mother is in hospital now battling cancer as well.

We, his family, feel that because of these events he's after getting involved with a gang of local youths / young men who don't seem to be too nice. He's admitted, almost bragged about his smoking of cannabis and he now has admitted to using cocaïne as well.

Last weekend he was walking home, late one night / early morning with a gang of his "friends" and he said that he was openly using cocaïne in public. He said that a Garda car drove by them and he may of been seen using. He said the guards never stopped them.

My concern though is, if his story is true, is that he may recieve a summons to be appear in court over being in possesion of drugs. He wasn't stopped and searched but my worry is that a Guard may not need to do that and the fact are that most of his "friends" are known to the guards and already have records? Could they just observe from a distance and still proceed to charge him / summons him? Or would he have to be stopped and searched etc etc?


Sorry for the long rambling post. I'm just nervous for him and if he was to fall down that route he may be lost that way for goo

In laymans terms, hypotheticaly do you need to be stopped and searched to be summonsed to court for possesion of drugs?

Or could you just be given a summons from a Guard who observed you being up to no good?

He's 19 by the way.

Many thanks.

I think your nephew is pumping his own tyres a bit here.

But even if true there is no chance of a summons as described.

Fakediamond

Taboola wrote: »

What about going to your local station and asking them to have a word with him? It might deter him.

Not a good idea, he'll be grilled about his friends, drug dealer etc, and recorded on pulse. Time enough for that if they come looking for him!

anvilfour

Taboola wrote: »

What about going to your local station and asking them to have a word with him? It might deter him.

I think that would be difficult without telling the Police that he has broken the law!

Still, the Police offering "words of advice" can do wonders for certain lost souls...

BasedHobbes

As an alternative to taking your nephew to the Gardai, take him to a counselor who deals with underage drug use. It won't put him on their radar, and they have a better chance of getting through to him than the 'scared straight' approach.