Issue obtaining a written reference....

terrydel

I recently left my job after 14 years, under a redundancy scheme.
Before leaving, I requested a written reference from my manager (he had been my manager for the vast bulk of that time but had recently moved into a new role) and was told it was company policy that HR would supply one upon leaving.
Fair enough I thought. However what HR have supplied is merely a statement of service, indicating the dates I began working and ceased employment on.
It is by no means a reference, certainly not imho.
I requested a written reference last week, and was told they would look into it. I have not heard anything back and am concerned now as this was my only job since college and in what will be my future career.
I yesterday mailed them and said I find this unacceptable and will be contacting my union over it if it is not addressed by end of the week.

There is a background in that I was part of the union committee during the redundancy negotiations, my first time in such a role. As you can imagine, this lead to strained relationships with a number of people, rightly or wrongly. I was not granted redundancy at first, and appealed this decision which did not go down well, but I felt I had very justifiable reasons for doing so. For whatever reason, they acceded to all appeals, including mine, and I got redundancy, which I was very happy with. I did not want to be there anymore.
But I feel that perhaps now they are messing me around as a result of my stance, both with the union and in appealing their original decision.
This will have a huge impact on my future employment prospects, as it is my only job in my chosen career.
I know that by law a company does not absolutely have to provide a reference, but I feel after 14 years good and loyal service, I am entitled to one.

I am considering my options, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Stheno

What you've been given by HR is standard for a lot of companies

Have you anyone you worked with who will provide a personal reference?

Written references are generally worthless employers like to contact someone and get references that way

Nody

They have given you a reference that fulfills the legal requirements; sorry but as a union rep you should know that and you are in no way entitled to anything more. In fact if they would give you more they would risk opening themselves up to lawsuits instead.

Lux23

Just ask your manager if you can use his name and numbers as a reference given to employers, very few companies would accept a written reference these days. I have never handed one over, sure they would be so easily faked.

qb123

Standard these days is to supply the names of a couple of references who can be contacted to discuss verbally your record with the company. Legal/HR departments no longer generally allow managers to provide old style references for fear of the consequences if the employee does something untoward (or is not up to scratch) in a new company.

allibastor

If you were there 14 years you should have some staff who you can contact for a reference.

To be fair, if I do a reference check on someone in the same company who have been there for 14 years it isn't to check if there were good at their job, that would be a given unless it was a high change type industry, like IT.

davo10

terrydel wrote: »

I yesterday mailed them and said I find this unacceptable and will be contacting my union over it if it is not addressed by end of the week.
.

As a union representative, it would have been wise to check what exactly you are entitled to in regard to references. The one they have given meets all legal requirements, threatening them is absolutely counterproductive and I would be amazed if you get any correspondence from them about this, also your manager probably will not put his head in the block for you now after that email.

MarkAnthony

terrydel wrote: »

This will have a huge impact on my future employment prospects, as it is my only job in my chosen career.

With one or two man outfits maybe, but any large corporations would have very similar HR policies.

Greenmachine

Pretty sure that an employer does not even have to even provide a reference. It might be petty of them not to, but sometimes that the shakes. Perhaps you could get some personal endorsement from any of the following colleagues, superiors, subordinates. If you have come from a leadership position, endorsement from suborinates would indicate you have people and skill, and your not just a number cruncher.

Queenalocin

You are not entitled to a written reference.

Jellybaby1

None of the last three jobs I had gave out written references, but when I asked they all said I could add them to a list of referees on my CV. I had to be happy with that.

the_syco

TBH, anyone with a computer can make themselves a written reference, and I'd be surprised if they were useful anymore. Get a verbal reference from someone you worked for during that time.

terrydel

Thanks for the responses all.
Its a slightly complicated situation in that my long time manager is someone I had a falling out with, in large part due to our differences over this redundancy situation.
It was ironed out to some degree before I left. But not to the extent Id be confident I'd get the reference I would deserve based solely on my work. Hence my desire to seek a written reference from the company.
But yes there are people within the company I'd be reasonably confident would at least give me a reference grounded in reality.
I was a good employee for 14 years, hard working, loyal, respectful, honest and willing and able to keep learning and improving.
I guess I will just have to accept the current status quo on this. I've no regrets about taking on the union role, it was something completely new to me and that is why I am no expert on the law pertaining to this area, but its something I felt very strongly about and when asked to get involved, it was a given for me, based on my principles and politics.
Thanks once again.

terrydel

allibastor wrote: »

If you were there 14 years you should have some staff who you can contact for a reference.

To be fair, if I do a reference check on someone in the same company who have been there for 14 years it isn't to check if there were good at their job, that would be a given unless it was a high change type industry, like IT.

Not sure what you mean by 'that would be a given unless it was a high change type industry, like IT'
Are you saying that someone who is 14 years in a place of work in the IT area, may not be good at their job?

Stheno

terrydel wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by 'that would be a given unless it was a high change type industry, like IT'
Are you saying that someone who is 14 years in a place of work in the IT area, may not be good at their job?

Certainly if someone was in the same role in IT in the same company for 14 years, I'd question their ability/lack of progress.

Way too many opportunities to progress for someone to be stuck in the same role in IT for 14 years tbh

terrydel

Stheno wrote: »

Certainly if someone was in the same role in IT in the same company for 14 years, I'd question their ability/lack of progress.

Way too many opportunities to progress for someone to be stuck in the same role in IT for 14 years tbh

Don't agree, but there you go.

Stheno

terrydel wrote: »

Don't agree, but there you go.

Just my personal experience of about 200 people I know working in IT.

Of all of them I can't actually think of one in the same job they were in 14 years ago.

Not one.

And 200 people is a fair few people.

terrydel

Stheno wrote: »

Just my personal experience of about 200 people I know working in IT.

Of all of them I can't actually think of one in the same job they were in 14 years ago.

Not one.

And 200 people is a fair few people.

I know a good number who have done exactly that, all of them are extremely good and would walk into a job tomoro if they decided to move on.

Stheno

terrydel wrote: »

I know a good number who have done exactly that, all of them are extremely good and would walk into a job tomoro if they decided to move on.

Unusual imo, others may disagree.
Would be a major red flag to me if I was hiring someone, that hadn't managed to progress at all in IT in 14 years.

syklops

Stheno wrote: »

Certainly if someone was in the same role in IT in the same company for 14 years, I'd question their ability/lack of progress.

Way too many opportunities to progress for someone to be stuck in the same role in IT for 14 years tbh

Agreed. I sometimes get asked about my CV, that I move about quite a bit, but if I was hiring someone and they stayed in the same place for 14 years I would be asking similar questions. If they started in IT Support and was now CTO then fair enough but 14 years in approximately the same role, I would definitely be asking questions.

OP, get a friend or colleague to be your reference, they don't necessarily need to be your manager, if asked you can simply say your manager has moved to another department. All your colleague needs to confirm is that you showed up on time, was pleasant to deal with and was a productive member of the team. At the end of the day thats all they need, and in my experience few employers go checking references anyway, not unless access to critical infrastructure is involved, or maybe access to children or patients.

Stheno

syklops wrote: »

Agreed. I sometimes gets asked about my CV, that I move about quite a bit, but if I was hiring someone and they stayed in the same place for 14 years I would be asking similar questions. If they started in IT Support and was now CTO then fair enough but 14 years in approximately the same role, I would definitely be asking questions.

Yeah I've friends who are still in the same place that I started out in in 1997, but on average move roles/progress every 2-3 years.

I'd be like you in that I move regularly I have bouts of contracting too

terrydel

Stheno wrote: »

Unusual imo, others may disagree.
Would be a major red flag to me if I was hiring someone, that hadn't managed to progress at all in IT in 14 years.

Depends on what you deem progression.
My role has essentially been the same, but I've moved from one technology to another regularly during that time.
If I'm applying for a developer role, which I will be, that to me would hold as much weight as some title change, which often times are no more than window dressing imho and experience.

Stheno

terrydel wrote: »

Depends on what you deem progression.
My role has essentially been the same, but I've moved from one technology to another regularly during that time.
If I'm applying for a developer role, which I will be, that to me would hold as much weight as some title change, which often times are no more than window dressing imho and experience.

Well I'd class progression in three ways:

1. Education: Getting certification in relevant areas, and keeping up to date with advances in new technologies.
2. Role progress: Using skills and experience to move roles, to demonstrate ability to progress and adapt.
3. Increased people skills: Showing progress in terms of involvement in projects and additional responsibilities and/or managing teams.

Just staying in the same role to me without any of the above is not worth as much as having at least some of the above.

I started out doing tech support in 1997, then became a second level support person, then a team lead, then moved on to become an SME etc, with a lot of certifications and use of those certifications along the way.

If I was still doing tech support, and just supporting new technologies, I'd be earning a lot less than I am now.

As this seems to have struck a nerve with you, what role have you been doing in IT for the last 14 years?

terrydel

Stheno wrote: »

Well I'd class progression in three ways:

1. Education: Getting certification in relevant areas, and keeping up to date with advances in new technologies.
2. Role progress: Using skills and experience to move roles, to demonstrate ability to progress and adapt.
3. Increased people skills: Showing progress in terms of involvement in projects and additional responsibilities and/or managing teams.

Just staying in the same role to me without any of the above is not worth as much as having at least some of the above.

I started out doing tech support in 1997, then became a second level support person, then a team lead, then moved on to become an SME etc, with a lot of certifications and use of those certifications along the way.

If I was still doing tech support, and just supporting new technologies, I'd be earning a lot less than I am now.

As this seems to have struck a nerve with you, what role have you been doing in IT for the last 14 years?

It hasn't struck a nerve at all, I'm merely debating with you, as we have differing opinions. Just because people counter your opinions does not imply you have 'struck a nerve'.
Ive been a software developer, web based software for the most part, for the last 14 years.

Stheno

terrydel wrote: »

It hasn't struck a nerve at all, I'm merely debating with you, as we have differing opinions. Just because people counter your opinions does not imply you have 'struck a nerve'.
Ive been a software developer, web based software for the most part, for the last 14 years.

Well if you've kept up with new technologies/developments, and have the right certifications and a decent portfolio of projects you should be fine for a new job then.

terrydel

Stheno wrote: »

Well if you've kept up with new technologies/developments, and have the right certifications and a decent portfolio of projects you should be fine for a new job then.

Hopefully so.