Too close to exchange. VDSL upload speed limited?

sennah

I got upgraded recently to VDSL from the exchange or "Fibre" as Vodafone call it. I'm less than 200 metres from the exchange so I was expecting the full 70d 20u on my line and when I check the eircom line checker, it shows 70/20 as the expected speed

The upgrade was made last week and I instantly connected just shy of the full 70Mbps download speed (it hovers around 65 to 69Mbps). The upload however was only reaching 4.5Mbps and my modem confirmed that the max upload available was just over 5

I rang Vodafone who said give it a day to settle and as it was Friday, I let it go for the weekend. I rang them again this morning and expecting bad news, I certainly got it. While my line is set to the full 70/20 profile, the upload is capped at 5Mbps due to me being too close to the exchange

To say I was disappointed was an understatement. I asked the guy to elaborate... why is this cap being imposed. His repeated with a nervous "too close" and he said there was simply nothing they could do. I mentioned how at no point during signup or on there website was it stated that being TOO CLOSE to the exchange would limit my upload speed! It was no fault of the poor guy on the phone so I let it go but it seems they're understanding of the issue is lacking


I've looked around the web and here for a while but I can't see any other mentions of this being a common problem and I didn't hear of it being a problem for customers connected to VDSL cabinets. Has anyone else here had the same problem? By the looks of it, my line would need to be around 500 metres or more to reach the higher upload but probably at the cost of some download. Lengthening my line is not an option (some resistors could help!) but I'd rather hear back from posters here

Thanks

jamesnp

200 metres is a long way for VDSL — also, it's distance to the cabinet that's important, not the exchange.

-James

sennah

jamesnp wrote: »

200 metres is a long way for VDSL — also, it's distance to the cabinet that's important, not the exchange.

-James

This is exchange VDSL or EVDSL as some call it

200 metres is a great line length and would be much shorter than the majority. It's not too long a line is the problem, the line is too short!!

jamesnp

My understanding was that the Eircom rollout was FTTC in all cases, and that cabinets were being installed in exchanges for those connected directly to the exchange?

And yeah, sorry, I read 200 metres but thought 2 kilometres for some reason. 200 metres should be fine.

Are you quoting dsl sync speeds or speeds achieved through a speed test?

-James

ED E

If its syncing at 70 DS then the US should be a solid 20Mb. Report a fault.

sennah

jamesnp wrote: »

My understanding was that the Eircom rollout was FTTC in all cases, and that cabinets were being installed in exchanges for those connected directly to the exchange?

And yeah, sorry, I read 200 metres but thought 2 kilometres for some reason. 200 metres should be fine.

Are you quoting dsl sync speeds or speeds achieved through a speed test?

-James

jamesnp wrote: »

My understanding was that the Eircom rollout was FTTC in all cases, and that cabinets were being installed in exchanges for those connected directly to the exchange?

And yeah, sorry, I read 200 metres but thought 2 kilometres for some reason. 200 metres should be fine.

Are you quoting dsl sync speeds or speeds achieved through a speed test?

-James

For the exchange connected lines, it's not a cabinet per se but a VDSL rack inside the exchange

All my figures are coming from my modem too (example below):

Max: Upstream rate = 5116 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68123 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 5039 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68141 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime

Down Up
SNR (dB): 8.8 8.8
Attn(dB): 21.3 20.3
Pwr(dBm): 14.5 -8.1

ED E wrote: »

If its syncing at 70 DS then the US should be a solid 20Mb. Report a fault.

That's the thing though, Vodafone state it's capped at 5Mbps due to the line being too short or, as they said themselves, I'm sitting on top of the exchange. I kinda sorta believe them too as the guy took one look, saw the 70/20 profile, saw a healthy line and then said it's capped at 5Mbps. He said there's nothing they can do so I figure that maybe it's a limit imposed by eircom wholesale? I got a peek at my neighbours speedtest and they're at 5Mbps upload also

I did read somewhere (can't remember) that users on short lines were being limited as full speeds might introduce echo or crosstalk. Some posters on UK forums mentioned modems crashing out on short lines and erratic performance

A house nearby is getting it soon and they're about 500 metres away so I'll get a peek at their stats and compare

jamesnp

sennah wrote: »

I did read somewhere (can't remember) that users on short lines were being limited as full speeds might introduce echo or crosstalk. Some posters on UK forums mentioned modems crashing out on short lines and erratic performance

I'm about 30 metres from the cabinet and I have a lovely solid line @ 102396 kbps / 20477 kbps.

I think your account's been incorrectly provisioned or there's some weird fault on the line. If it were a fault, though, I'd expect to see a drop off in your download before losing 75% of your upload.

Any issues with the connection other than the sync speed?

-James

ED E

Theres issues where there are FTTC/VDSL2 cabs in very close proximity to the MDF, in those cases they seem to be limiting down to 50_15 to prevent excessive noise from eVDSL lines f'cking FTTC incumbents. But I have yet to see anyone having just a US limit. None of the technical handbooks even list a 70_5 profile.

IMO this is likely just some poor quality UTP thats wiping out US attains.

sennah

jamesnp wrote: »

I'm about 30 metres from the cabinet and I have a lovely solid line @ 102396 kbps / 20477 kbps.

I think your account's been incorrectly provisioned or there's some weird fault on the line. If it were a fault, though, I'd expect to see a drop off in your download before losing 75% of your upload.

Any issues with the connection other than the sync speed?

-James

No issues with the connection no. Ping is anything as low as 10ms, download is great and all is perfectly stable. Just the upload sucks

ED E wrote: »

Theres issues where there are FTTC/VDSL2 cabs in very close proximity to the MDF, in those cases they seem to be limiting down to 50_15 to prevent excessive noise from eVDSL lines f'cking FTTC incumbents. But I have yet to see anyone having just a US limit. None of the technical handbooks even list a 70_5 profile.

IMO this is likely just some poor quality UTP thats wiping out US attains.

I had ADSL1 up until last week, stats for it below. The line or connection never once displayed any issues but granted the speed being pushed and frequencies in use were lower then than they are now. I think it's a provisioning fault also but when the guy in tech stated that the profile IS set to 70/20 and quickly jumped to the 5meg upload limit being down to close proximity, he must have been told this somewhere... it may have even been displaying on the screen in front of him

I stopped at a KN tech in the exchange today and mentioned it to him to see had he heard of it happening in any of his areas. He laughed out loud when I told him the "too close" story and said he had neither heard of it happening anywhere before nor was it something they were advised on internally

I'm pissed off either way. I upgraded to get better upload specifically and didn't care so much about the download so I'll have to drag it out of them I guess and I'm not accepting "too close" as a reason... give me tech speak damnit!! If it is infact an eircom networks imposed limit, so be it and there's little Vodafone can really do there. But chances as always are always high that Vodafone have just made a cock of the order somewhere



ADSL on the same line:

Max: Upstream rate = 1392 Kbps, Downstream rate = 12608 Kbps
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 384 Kbps, Downstream rate = 7168 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT Annex A
TPS-TC: ATM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime

Down Up
SNR (dB): 14.6 19.0
Attn(dB): 2.5 4.0
Pwr(dBm): 0.4 0.7

notahappycamper

If you are getting nowhere with Vodafone maybe send a tweet to Eircom Wholesale on Twitter to look into it directly- they did for me and I'm with Vodafone.

sennah

I tried eircom Wholesale on twitter but they just told me to raise it with my provider!

My own upload has creeped up to 6Mbps and I've saw a few other lines on the same exchange running at higher upload again so I think the "proximity cap" is nonsense. I think I might know what's going on though

When I upgraded to VDSL, I downgraded to Vodafone's Broadband Only package and when the guy installed it, he removed the dialtone from my line, I was issued a new "8881" line number by Vodafone and my old local landline number was de-activated. When I checked my old landline number in eircom's database before install, it showed 70/20 as the expected profile. I can't check this number anymore as it's been removed but when I check the new 8881 number, it shows 40/10 as the max profile. Considering these two numbers relate to the same short copper pair, I think, at least I hope, that I might need to wait until eircom run their prequal again and update the 8881 circuit number to 70/20


Aside from all that, VDSL2 without vectoring sucks! My downstream attainable has fallen considerably as new lines have been activated at the exchange. I've went from the full 70Mbps attainable to now struggling to pass 55Mbps. All my other figures have remained the same so might the exchange may be throttling us all down to cope with increased noise?

jamesnp

sennah wrote: »

I check the new 8881 number, it shows 40/10 as the max profile.

Sounds to me like you've found the issue. No reason why Vodafone can't liaise with Eircom to fix that asap.

-James

ED E

sennah wrote: »

I tried eircom Wholesale on twitter but they just told me to raise it with my provider!

My own upload has creeped up to 6Mbps and I've saw a few other lines on the same exchange running at higher upload again so I think the "proximity cap" is nonsense. I think I might know what's going on though

When I upgraded to VDSL, I downgraded to Vodafone's Broadband Only package and when the guy installed it, he removed the dialtone from my line, I was issued a new "8881" line number by Vodafone and my old local landline number was de-activated. When I checked my old landline number in eircom's database before install, it showed 70/20 as the expected profile. I can't check this number anymore as it's been removed but when I check the new 8881 number, it shows 40/10 as the max profile. Considering these two numbers relate to the same short copper pair, I think, at least I hope, that I might need to wait until eircom run their prequal again and update the 8881 circuit number to 70/20


Aside from all that, VDSL2 without vectoring sucks! My downstream attainable has fallen considerably as new lines have been activated at the exchange. I've went from the full 70Mbps attainable to now struggling to pass 55Mbps. All my other figures have remained the same so might the exchange may be throttling us all down to cope with increased noise?

If your upload is that low you have a problem with the line. When you're close enough to reach 55Mb DS attains then your US should be at least a healthy 10Mb+. Get a tech call out.

Assuming the presence of a fault, your 8881-(CRN)'s prequal won't improve until theres a fix.

sennah

Thanks for the help guys

I got back onto Vodafone and got through to a very helpful young guy who had just started with them. He listened with intrigue to my problem and my notes and he admitted that they were told in training that if a connection is too close to the exchange, it will be limited. However, he said himself that he didn't believe this and went straight to a line test. It came back with two capacitance problems of some sort so he logged an engineer callout

A KN Networks engineer landed this morning and immediately went back to the exchange. He found a poor connection where the pair connects to the rack so he punched it down again and returned. He tested the line with a hand-held device which showed a sync of 70/20 and max attainables of 114/38! I'm now connected steady at 71.6 Mbps down and 20.4 Mbps up

What is strange is that eircom's prequal for the line immediately went from 40/10 to 70/20 once the engineer corrected the cabling issue. I thought these were only run every few weeks but it seems to have happened in real-time here. He did get his guys back in KN to do a line test when he finished so maybe they can force a re-prequal themselves? Other than that, I said above about VDSL2 without vectoring being poor. This was unwarranted it seems. The downstream wasn't falling because more people were signing on but it seems instead it was slowly falling to line up with the bad prequal assigned to the line

Thanks again



Here's my new stats too if anyone is interested

Max: Upstream rate = 25064 Kbps, Downstream rate = 117654 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20480 Kbps, Downstream rate = 71679 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime

Down Up
SNR (dB): 21.4 11.3
Attn(dB): 10.8 0.00
Pwr(dBm): 14.5 -16.9

notahappycamper

You should easily get 100mb downstream on those stats. Did they tech guy say there was capacitance inside the house causing the issue or was it all to do with the exchange?

sennah

notahappycamper wrote: »

You should easily get 100mb downstream on those stats. Did they tech guy say there was capacitance inside the house causing the issue or was it all to do with the exchange?

I don't think I'll get 100 Mbps until vectoring is rolled out in the exchanges, if it's rolled out at all that is

The capacitance error (I think there was a negative B ground or something mentioned too) was spotted by Vodafone tech support. They relayed this onto KN Networks as that the line had a bridge tap. The KN engineer just found it to be no more than a loose cable connection at the rack in the exchange. Whatever test he done when he first landed must have twigged this with him as he immediately mentioned loose connections and went to the exchange

As for inside the house, I have only the new style master socket on the end of the line coming in and nothing other than the modem connected to it

Very happy with today's result. The connection is perfect and not even as much as a harmless FEC error to be seen

notahappycamper

That's a great result so!