Deviling - practicalities

No.2

From looking around this forum, there’s a lot of good information on devilling but I can’t see an existing thread on some of the practicalities of starting out at the bar so here goes ...
Essentially, I completed the King’s Inns degree course a few years ago and was called to the bar, but have never devilled. In the next few years I may have an opportunity to start to practicing in light of experience gained while working “in house”, contacts, savings, and side work which (I’d hope) would support me for a few years at least. That said, I would like to make sure I plan as well as possible and I have some questions on practical issues which I would be very grateful for some guidance on. These are:

1. Hours
If one wanted to give oneself as good a chance at starting at the bar as possible, how many hours per week should they expect to devote to practicing in the first 1 – 3 years? How long would the working day last (e.g. 9-5:30) and what would it entail? Would not working materially longer than that impinge upon chances of success?

Would it be possible to do some other work “on the side” in terms of drafting reports, etc., when at the law library / waiting to appear in Court? That is, could one reasonable work on non-devil matters while remaining in the library / at court, but working on a portable device or similar?

2. ‘Down’ time
If a devil were to have a reasonably busy master who provides regular work to their devil, can the devil expect much by way of “quiet” time when practicing (i.e. during term time)? To what extent are important connections made during any “quiet” time at the bar? Would a devil unreasonably hinder their future prospects if they were present in the courts/library, but somewhat occupied with other work during lulls in practice?

3. Predictability
To what extent will a devil find their working day is unpredictable? i.e. do last minute matters tend to arise or generally will their day pan out as might be planned the previous evening?

4. Resources
Outside of law-library fees, insurance and incidentals such as food, clothing, and socialising, are there any resources which a putative devil should plan to expend (excepting time, building connections and hard work)?

5. Out of term time
What tends to be a devil’s workload outside of term time?

6. Selecting a Master
Is it still the case that in order to get a good master / one in high demand, a potential devil should seek to make arrangements two or more years in advance?

7. Nature of Master
To what extent does the nature of a devil’s master impact upon their devilling year(s)? Might a quiet or unhelpful master mean that a devil might be at a loose end for much of their time at practice? Would the inverse be true?

On a slightly separate point, does the quality of your master continue to have a potentially significant impact on your chances of future success at the bar?
I realise, of course, that the nature of devilry will depend on a variety of circumstances and to that extent its not possible to give more than general answers to these questions. To that end, any sort of indication would be helpful. I have been speaking to some of my former class mates and current barristers but want to get as wide a range of opinion as possible.

Also, finally, do you think that starting to practice a few years after call places a novice barrister at an extreme disadvantage (outside, of course, of needing to brush up on the likes of procedural rules, etc)? If so, would there be any means through which the novice could mitigate such a shortcoming?

Any information on the above, or related devilling matters would be gratefully received.

Tom Young

Qs 1 - 5, the answer is none. You are your master's shadow and should be allowed access to almost all areas of the practice, save for the odd exceptional case.

6 and 7, the wrong master can be fatal, but your second year master may make up for a mistake. Select carefully, by specialism and areas of law, age and possibly sex, that depends though. Most pupils cold call and have problems, but get the list and make the calls, juniors are used to being called by prospective pupils.

Sorry for the short answer but it's an old system and you should just commit to it. It's hard, unpredictable and your time won't be your own, unless your master desires that you have work.

If you fully commit, then you stand to gain most. Most learning can be achieved by involvement in cases that may not necessarily be on the old 9 to 5 scale!

johnnyskeleton

No.2 wrote: »

I would like to make sure I plan as well as possible

I know its a terrible cliche, but where do you see yourself in 5 years' time? Work backwards from your goal. What kind of law do you want to practice and why? Criminal law, for example, will require lots of court work and limited paperwork. At the other end you could spend your days writing tax law opinions and only dusting off your gown once or twice a year.

Once you have those clear in your mind (and you dont have to tell us here you can do a larry long ears on it if you like) the other questions can be answered more easily.

1. Hours
If one wanted to give oneself as good a chance at starting at the bar as possible, how many hours per week should they expect to devote to practicing in the first 1 – 3 years? How long would the working day last (e.g. 9-5:30) and what would it entail? Would not working materially longer than that impinge upon chances of success?

As many as possible to be honest. At a minimum 10-4.30 ie court hours would be crucial and an hour before and after is reasonably important. Some people would want/expect you to be in earlier and stay later, and there is no regularity or guarantee of 9-5.30, because some days will be longer than others. Also, by being around and available you could catch a lucky break.

Would it be possible to do some other work “on the side” in terms of drafting reports, etc., when at the law library / waiting to appear in Court? That is, could one reasonable work on non-devil matters while remaining in the library / at court, but working on a portable device or similar?

Yes. In fact for all the long hours you might have to do there will also be boring times. Maybe this time is better spent watching trials etc but certainly doing other work is fine (as log as youre not using library resources for another profession).

2. ‘Down’ time
If a devil were to have a reasonably busy master who provides regular work to their devil, can the devil expect much by way of “quiet” time when practicing (i.e. during term time)?

Well I mean given that the terms are only about 40 weeks per year there is plenty time for holidays if you wish. There may bedays with nothing to do but these should be rare in first year and more common in 2nd and 3rd years, but try to fill them up with productive work if possible.

To what extent are important connections made during any “quiet” time at the bar? Would a devil unreasonably hinder their future prospects if they were present in the courts/library, but somewhat occupied with other work during lulls in practice?

Maybe. Maybe it would work in your favour to have another string to your bow.

3. Predictability
To what extent will a devil find their working day is unpredictable? i.e. do last minute matters tend to arise or generally will their day pan out as might be planned the previous evening?

Very-extremely would be the consensus.

4. Resources
Outside of law-library fees, insurance and incidentals such as food, clothing, and socialising, are there any resources which a putative devil should plan to expend (excepting time, building connections and hard work)?

Do you plan to live/work in more than one town? Get a car. Laptops are useful, as are those shoes that go "clop clop clop" on marble instead of "squeak squeak squeak".

5. Out of term time
What tends to be a devil’s workload outside of term time?

Its your career; as Tom says make as much or as little of it as you will, but minimising your potential exposure to learning law, meeting clients and practising advocacy is not a good way to go about it.

6. Selecting a Master
Is it still the case that in order to get a good master / one in high demand, a potential devil should seek to make arrangements two or more years in advance?

Maybe. But you might get lucky. There are apparently a lot less devils starting this October than in previous years, together with more barristers of an age to take a devil, so there is a lot more choice. Equally if you want to devil for someone too far in advance they may have taken silk or found their way on to the bench in the meantime. Its tricky.

7. Nature of Master
To what extent does the nature of a devil’s master impact upon their devilling year(s)? Might a quiet or unhelpful master mean that a devil might be at a loose end for much of their time at practice? Would the inverse be true?

A first year master quite a lot, a second year less so, and as the years pass it might or might not make a large difference. You have to get work somewhere, and from a master is a traditional route. Though if work is scarce in an area there is less chance of getting work than if the work is plentiful.

On a slightly separate point, does the quality of your master continue to have a potentially significant impact on your chances of future success at the bar?

Undoubtedly it has some impact, but its hard to say how significant that will be. 35% maybe?

Also, finally, do you think that starting to practice a few years after call places a novice barrister at an extreme disadvantage (outside, of course, of needing to brush up on the likes of procedural rules, etc)?

Usually a few extra years will make someone more confident and, as in your case, give them some experience of legal work.

However the downside is that it is easier to spend a few years wih low earnings and log working hours in your early 20s than it is in your late 20s/30s when youve got kids to pay and mortgages to feed.

FreudianSlippers

No.2 wrote: »

From looking around this forum, there’s a lot of good information on devilling but I can’t see an existing thread on some of the practicalities of starting out at the bar so here goes ...
Essentially, I completed the King’s Inns degree course a few years ago and was called to the bar, but have never devilled. In the next few years I may have an opportunity to start to practicing in light of experience gained while working “in house”, contacts, savings, and side work which (I’d hope) would support me for a few years at least. That said, I would like to make sure I plan as well as possible and I have some questions on practical issues which I would be very grateful for some guidance on.

I think Tom and johnny are spot on - I'll just add my experience.

1. Hours
If one wanted to give oneself as good a chance at starting at the bar as possible, how many hours per week should they expect to devote to practicing in the first 1 – 3 years? How long would the working day last (e.g. 9-5:30) and what would it entail? Would not working materially longer than that impinge upon chances of success?

Tom is right, you work what your master works. That being said there are also considerations like whether you'll be on circuit - if you're looking for experience on your feet and the possibility of getting your own work here and there in your devilling years I can't recommend circuit enough.

Also, I'd advise checking out the court listing system - you might be 10 on the list but I've spent many a day sitting around until the late afternoon waiting to get on.

Would it be possible to do some other work “on the side” in terms of drafting reports, etc., when at the law library / waiting to appear in Court? That is, could one reasonable work on non-devil matters while remaining in the library / at court, but working on a portable device or similar?

In the library: yes
In court: IMHO no

‘Down’ time
If a devil were to have a reasonably busy master who provides regular work to their devil, can the devil expect much by way of “quiet” time when practicing (i.e. during term time)? To what extent are important connections made during any “quiet” time at the bar? Would a devil unreasonably hinder their future prospects if they were present in the courts/library, but somewhat occupied with other work during lulls in practice?

The more time you spend around the buildings looking busy the better. If you have other work to do, do it, but make friends with your colleagues - work floats around between barristers. That means you'll be drinking a lot of coffee in the tea rooms and a lot of pints in the sheds.

Predictability
To what extent will a devil find their working day is unpredictable? i.e. do last minute matters tend to arise or generally will their day pan out as might be planned the previous evening?

I found weeks to be fairly predictable in terms of knowing where I'd be, but the actual working day in court is anything but predictable. Often you'll need to be in 2/3 places at once.

Resources
Outside of law-library fees, insurance and incidentals such as food, clothing, and socialising, are there any resources which a putative devil should plan to expend (excepting time, building connections and hard work)?

Just don't dress like a homeless person and you should be ok. I really wish I didn't have to say that, but some of our esteemed colleagues often look like they spent the night in a bin somewhere.

Out of term time
What tends to be a devil’s workload outside of term time?

Ibiza. Kidding- I agree with tom and johnny on this. If you're not desperate for money, you'll find something to do.

Selecting a Master
Is it still the case that in order to get a good master / one in high demand, a potential devil should seek to make arrangements two or more years in advance?

Yes.

Nature of Master
To what extent does the nature of a devil’s master impact upon their devilling year(s)? Might a quiet or unhelpful master mean that a devil might be at a loose end for much of their time at practice? Would the inverse be true?

Depends on what you want to do and where you want to do it. I am not a criminal law fan, so obviously not going to get involved in all that.

I can't recommend enough a general civil first year on circuit (PI, insurance, RTA, etc.) and a specialised 2nd year in Dublin.

On a slightly separate point, does the quality of your master continue to have a potentially significant impact on your chances of future success at the bar?

Depends on your master's personality. I had two very different ones; one was like a family, the other was icy at best.

I got more work initially from the "family" one; but the icy one was undoubtedly more beneficial to my career.

Also, finally, do you think that starting to practice a few years after call places a novice barrister at an extreme disadvantage (outside, of course, of needing to brush up on the likes of procedural rules, etc)? If so, would there be any means through which the novice could mitigate such a shortcoming?

Any information on the above, or related devilling matters would be gratefully received.

You'll be joining with all the other devils, try to get on your feet as much as possible before Christmas. It's still a very rough environment at the bar, so if it is really what you want to do then stick at it and work hard to make connections and scrounge for work.

No.2

Thanks all for your help - seems like your master, and whether or not you're on circuit, as well as the old civil/criminal split can be important factors. Despite that it should be treated as any full time job - even though there can be lulls, flexibility can be required and time to make contacts is key.

Thanks again for the info - great to have views from people with experience.